He set Pedro through on goal for that 1v1 and set up Alexis with another great chance, I thought he was great.
La Liga - 2012/2013
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Another lucky win for Barcelona.. Messi didn't look like he was fully fit.
Still broke the record and won the game mind you..
Still broke the record and won the game mind you..
Messi was clearly MOTM.
Iniesta?
No-one really stood out consistently, Messi had a terrific 1st half and was extremely clinical overall, 4 shots, 2 goals, 1 post. Faded in the 2nd half.
Iniesta probably kept possession best of all, but even though he had 2 assists he didn't create that many real chances/danger. He wasn't any more noticeable than his Betis counterpart Beñat, I thought, who also played a good game but not MOTM-worthy. Adriano and Piqué were okay, Vadillo as well when he came on. In the end I'd give it to Messi personally.
As an aside, I do believe people are starting to overrate Iniesta.
Definitely.
Fine. I take it back. You're one tedious motherfecker.
Ah, the Pedro one must have slipped my mind. But still I didn't think any one player really stood out in the game, not even Messi (well he did for about 15 minutes but then went silent for the rest of the match). Great game by two teams playing as teams, but it was decided in those 15 minutes of individual quality and that's why I would give Messi the edge for the MOTM.
What?
Well, Iniesta is also a perfectly valid choice (just not mine), but I feel that the reason why he is so highly rated is the thing preventing him from taking away the MOTM tonight.
He's generally (over)rated because he keeps the ball well, be it through passing or dribbling, and has a very elegant style of moving it around; if you can rate someone's performance on 2 levels, then it would be on their impact towards the result (1) and their impact on the balance of the game (2); Iniesta falls mainly in the 2nd category, but seeing as Barcelona had very poor control over the game in the second half I don't think he can be rated higher than the one who influenced the result.
For me Iniesta is part Xavi and part Messi, but too few of either to be a superior player, a very vital player for Spain/Barcelona's system yes, but then so are Pedro and Dani Alves/Alba and I don't see many people proclaiming them top 3 Ballon d'Or candidates. IMO Pirlo would have been the better choice to complete the top 3 this year.
I agree with Brwned, I thought Iniesta was clearly MOTM yesterday. He's had some amazing through balls and didn't put a foot wrong the whole game. Also was involved and gave the fantastic pass for Messi's second. Messi scored out of nothing and had a great game aswell but lost the ball quite a few times.
I think people get sometimes a bit over-analytical when things are not really that complicated..
Let me ask you a simple question Vato. As a Real Madrid fan which player you hope now that he didn't play against Betis yesterday? Choose one. Or to put it in anothet way, if you get to rewind time now and replace one of Barcelona's players with Fabregas (for the whole game) in yesterday's game, which one would you choose? Messi or Iniesta?
MOTM means the player with the most obvious influence on the result of the game.. I don't care if he lost the ball 3 times while another player lost it only once. Messi scored two very well taken goals that won the game for Barcelona. Clearly his absence would have had a more obvious impact on the result of the game. He made the first goal out of nothing really (if Iniesta was in his place there he would NOT have lost the ball, but he wouldn't have scored either). And for the second goal, if there was one player to be credited for the goal other than Messi then it would be Adriano. Iniesta's pass-back to Messi was nice, but hardly left him with the easiest of finishes really, and it wasn't the decisive touch for the goal..
I'm not downplaying Iniesta's role in the game, but in a game like this the choice should still be easy IMO.
That's a bit simplistic in my opinion. What you're basically saying is that in a game with goals, MOTM should be given to the one who scored the biggest amount.
Messi was great yesterday but I really think Iniesta was sublime, and with me a lot of people, seeing as he got MOTM. He didn't put a foot wrong.
Messi's role in the team is to score the goals, so offcourse he's the one that's going to do it. With that way off thinking he should get MOTM each game he scores a goal or two.
As to your question of which player I would replace with Fabregas the whole game? Maybe if Busquets or Xavi were out who's to say they still would have won the game? Seeing as it's their job to control the game, you just don't know how it would have been if any of them would have got replaced. So, I find the way how you decide to pick your MOTM a bit strange, but each to their own.
Edit - Maybe it doesn't help that we sort of come to expect performances like that from Messi.
Fair point I forgot about those. Still wouldn't be choice personally but he was very good
Well, Iniesta is also a perfectly valid choice (just not mine), but I feel that the reason why he is so highly rated is the thing preventing him from taking away the MOTM tonight.
He's generally (over)rated because he keeps the ball well, be it through passing or dribbling, and has a very elegant style of moving it around; if you can rate someone's performance on 2 levels, then it would be on their impact towards the result (1) and their impact on the balance of the game (2); Iniesta falls mainly in the 2nd category, but seeing as Barcelona had very poor control over the game in the second half I don't think he can be rated higher than the one who influenced the result.
For me Iniesta is part Xavi and part Messi, but too few of either to be a superior player, a very vital player for Spain/Barcelona's system yes, but then so are Pedro and Dani Alves/Alba and I don't see many people proclaiming them top 3 Ballon d'Or candidates. IMO Pirlo would have been the better choice to complete the top 3 this year.
I agree with the idea that in general Iniesta's just a little bit overrated but in the last two games of his I've seen he's been producing more than normal - creating clear-cut chances throughout and of course that great goal he scored the other week (last week?). I really do think some of the chances he created last night have been overlooked and even his assist for Messi deserves plenty of credit, it wasn't put on a plate for him at all but it was a great piece of improvisation, awareness and control. From what I've seen this is Iniesta not far off top form, it's the rest of the team that aren't controlling games as they usually do. Betis were great again so I wouldn't begrudge giving one of their players MOTM but I couldn't tell them apart really. I remember Benat from the Madrid game, that's about it. That said I was half-watching this game and half-watching the Inter game so I wasn't trying to create some kind of debate - it was just a throwaway remark.
Pirlo was definitely better than him last year though.
I agree that he has actually been on the up lately regarding form... being more decisive. And yeah like I said I thought he had a good game (as you pointed out he put Pedro 1-on-1 and I thought his run for the 2nd goal was great as it enabled him to draw defenders away and then backheel it to Messi, but it still wasn't what you would call a clear shooting chance so most of the credit should go to Messi for that goal; Alexis' decoy run for the 1st was far more obvious to the outcome for example).
Re: rating Iniesta... It's somewhat peculiar in the sense that there are people who play down Spain/Barcelona's style as "boring sideway passes without much end product", but in the same sentence they'll praise Iniesta for pulling off ingenuous flicks and getting out of tight spaces before passing it back, all of which contributes nothing to the result. I can understand that the aesthetic aspect is lauded (and deservedly so), but not at the cost of players who like him influence the game itself and who have that extra capability of directly influencing the result on a consistent basis as well. Another thing that annoys me is that for some reason a popular criticism of Messi (being supported by great team mates) doesn't seem to apply to Iniesta (and Xavi), although they're all part of the same system.
That being said, he isn't the worst choice ever for a Ballon d'Or top 3 finish, but then again he shouldn't have finished anywhere near 2nd in 2010 either in my opinion. Maybe my standards are too high...
It shouldn't necessarily go to the player who scores a goal or two.. However in this case it's not like Iniesta set up those goals for him with great passes that left him with clear one-on-ones or tap-ins. Iniesta couldn't even secure the midfield for Barcelona as it was one of the rare games where Barcelona didn't really control the midfield or the game.. His play is very enjoyable, but I don't think he had THAT much impact on the game yesterday.. I honestly think even without Iniesta Messi would still have got his goals probably, but I'm not really sure Barcelona would have scored yesterday without Messi..
If it was a player who scores two easy goals against a player who set up and created those goals, or a keeper who made 5 critical saves, or a defender who made 5 saving tackles, ..., then it would have been another story, but it's not.. I genuinely think that Barcelona were lucky yesterday to get away with the win, and a major part of that luck was Messi being fit to score those crucial goals for them.
Also for my question about the player you would choose to replace, you should pick Messi in a blink of an eye IMO. Messi is the reason, IMO, why Real Madrid stands below Barcelona on the table at the moment.
I hope Atletico do us a favour tonight, but I don't have high hopes. Let's hope Simeone comes up with a decent tactic to try and stop Messi.
Hopefully they don't shit themselves like they did against Real. Results against Barca in recent years have been quite good for Atletico, well not in the past 2 years but before that they were a bit of a bogey team. Still don't see any way for them to stop Messi. He just loves playing against Atletico.
Hopefully they don't shit themselves like they did against Real. Results against Barca in recent years have been quite good for Atletico, well not in the past 2 years but before that they were a bit of a bogey team. Still don't see any way for them to stop Messi. He just loves playing against Atletico.
Yeah, like Torres loved to play against Barca. Shame they don't have the useless gimp tonight.
Who will score more though Falcao or Messi? My money is on Falcao, with one or two Valdes clangers.
Well, in the form of his life (23 goals in 15 games) and with a hat-trick in this fixture for two seasons running,...
He probably won't score
Well, in the form of his life (23 goals in 15 games) and with a hat-trick in this fixture for two seasons running,...
He probably won't score
Decent jinx attempt, appreciate it.
OK - see how this thread gets when I'm not here to remind you that it's not a two team league
However, tonight is indeed the clash of the big two:
Real Madrid V Espanyol KO 6pm UK
or not
OK then, tonight is indeed the clash of the big two.
Barcelona Vs Atletico Madrid KO 8pm UK
Atletico's record against Barcelona isn't bad, but with Puyol and Pique back there doesn't look like much scope for Falcao, and as we all know if he can't the rest of them probably won't bother to.
Incidentally Atletico are Messi's favourite victim - 18 goals in 14 games.
Valencia still goalless after an hour - that's 9th place form.
However, tonight is indeed the clash of the big two:
Real Madrid V Espanyol KO 6pm UK
or not
OK then, tonight is indeed the clash of the big two.
Barcelona Vs Atletico Madrid KO 8pm UK
Atletico's record against Barcelona isn't bad, but with Puyol and Pique back there doesn't look like much scope for Falcao, and as we all know if he can't the rest of them probably won't bother to.
Incidentally Atletico are Messi's favourite victim - 18 goals in 14 games.
Valencia still goalless after an hour - that's 9th place form.
Vato, shoot a PM to Pogue, he's the witchdoctor on here.
Side note: watch all those who said Atletico rolled over for Madrid a few weeks back, call Barcelona's potential victory a masterclass.
Side note: watch all those who said Atletico rolled over for Madrid a few weeks back, call Barcelona's potential victory a masterclass.
there's no fecking way that atletico can beat barcelona tonight
see what i did there?
see what i did there?
Did people say they rolled over? They just can't handle the pressure of the derby and it's been that way for years. They fare better against Barcelona, so I expect this to be a good game with lots of goals.
there's no fecking way that atletico can beat barcelona tonight
see what i did there?
So you want Atletico to win??
Hope it is a more even contest because Falcao didnt have anything to feed off. Would be a far more boring match if its the same against Barcelona
Barca will beat Atletico by at least three goals. Probably at least five.
Well Filipe the left back was missing against Real and he is vital to the way Atletico play. He'll be lining up tonight so they will at least have a threat coming down that side.
Sure hope Athletico wins/draws tonight, otherwise it might turn into a very boring season with Barca clear favourites already. The gap between them and Madrid is huge.
Putting Diaz in there instead of a bonafide full-back like Silvio or Domingo was a very negative move by Simeone.
Real Madrid lineup - Casillas; Arbeloa, Pepe, Sergio Ramos, Coentrao; Khedira, Alonso; Özil, Modric, Callejón, y Cristiano Ronaldo
Di Maria dropped - presumably for looking like he'd rather be somewhere else in the Copa match. Benzema's out with an ankle injury - though to be honest, prior to limping off he looked about as committed in the Copa match as Di Maria.
Di Maria dropped - presumably for looking like he'd rather be somewhere else in the Copa match. Benzema's out with an ankle injury - though to be honest, prior to limping off he looked about as committed in the Copa match as Di Maria.
i love messi, but between real and barcelona y prefer real
perhaps he was daydreaming about coming to OT to be nani's replacement.
Just got home. No Benzema or Higuain playing?
fixed
Translation: I'd let Messi bum me but I'd suck Higuain's balls in a vacuum.
Damn you kouroux
I have laid Barcelona on bet fair for the past 7 games and will do so again tonight, surely they will eventually not win a game and tonight seems as good a time as ever. Cant wait for this game though should be a cracker.
Personally I don't feel that Atléti have rolled over for Real in the past couple of seasons, they've even been the better team on a couple of occasions. But the previous game was just boring and eventless, they played very defensively and were still beaten, and what's more they didn't look like scoring at all which couldn't be said in derbies before that.
I love you too vato
has modric played a game as good as he did for the spurs?