Better question; can we not get rekt by a strong team? Let’s lower the expectations a few
Kylian Mbappé | Real Madrid watch
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Better question; can we not get rekt by a strong team? Let’s lower the expectations a few
Exactly, it's not even close. I'm not interested in battering weak opposition if you can't touch stronger onesBetter question; can we not get rekt by a strong team? Let’s lower the expectations a few
I'm more interested in actually defending a league title, in the first time since, forever, if it means bashing minnows and being hopeless against top 5-sides, then so be it.
Yea Barcelona are currently not built for the league, defensively shite.
Just remember all the people posting idiotic nonsense in this thread when he had a slow start, acting like he was a bum. Like I said before, that's the issue with sites like this and also social media. There's a referendum on players after every single game. Players, even great ones, struggle sometimes. That's how it works.
The sad thing is that after a lot of early season promise, Real Madrid are 10 points ahead of Barca. What good are a couple of clasico blowouts if you can't be defensively consistent throughout the season?
Vinicius will be pissed. Mbappe will steal the Ballon D'or before Vini Jr gets to it.
When the season ends, it'll be obvious Mbappe's better than Vinicius.
So business resumed then? All that hysteria earlier in the thread
That's one way to look at it, another would be that Mbappe has come in and disrupted Vinicius' game and he's going to be forced to adapt, which is hardly fair, but is what tends to happen for the bigger name.
The challenge always was getting the team to fire on all cylinders, not just benefit any one player.
The only thing that will be obvious is that they are 2 best attackers in the world. Mbappe will be the best scorer in La Liga and Vinicius in the CL.
FYI: Contributions in the CL since 2021/2022:
1. Vinicius - 42 (24 goals, 18 assists)
2. Lewandowski 33 (30 goals, 3 assists)
3. Mbappe 32 (24 goals, 8 assists)
4. Haaland 29 (27 goals, 2 assists)
5. Salah 27 (19 goals, 8 assists)
And we know that Vinicius does more damage to his opponents than "just" goals and assists.
PS The silence is deafening. Just like in the Bellingham's thread. Trolls and buffoons put in their place before February. The most pathetic were some Real Madrid fans: "but, but Perez should've bought Haaland"
What’s their respective records in international games and major international competitions? Mbappe is a better footballer and by a distance. The data and achievements in the game shows it as well let alone the eye test. The only phase Vinicius is superior is off the ball defensive ethic but he’s also better than Ronaldo in this regards and obviously miles behind as a footballer.
The “haterz be silent” bit is hilarious too. Like someone whose been in too many delinquent fanboy wars.
What a nonsense. Stop living in the past. We are not in 2020 anymore.
Brazil are a poor team at the moment without a competent manager, proper midfielders and with amateur full backs. International football it's not an argument. Actually, with the squad that France have Mbappe has underachieved in recent years.
Only off the ball defensive ethic? That's a lie. Vinicius is a better passer, creator and dribbler. His stamina is also much better.
What data? The one that I just showed you?
Do you want more data? OK.
Again, Vinicius in the Champions League since 2021/2022
-256 duels won (1st)
-134 take ons completed (1st)
-89 chances created (1st)
-75 fouls won (1st)
Mbappe is a natural goalscorer. Goals come more easily to him, but to say that he is miles better than Vini is just not true. Vinicius is better in many things or at least at the same level.
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Shit or not shit?
An only the champions league - great cherry picking. Compare their careers this far in data points and achievements given that’s what stated. We know who wins - the guy who nearly won back to back world cups. “The past” is essentially their whole careers and Mbappe has had a better one.
Going by eye test I fail to see what aspects of the game Mbappe is better at.
Finishing I guess? Because otherwise I’d argue Vini is the superior footballer. He is the better dribbler, chance creator, passer and offers better wing play than Mbappe. Hell, Carlo put Mbappe on the LW at times to help him get into it and Vini did even better in the middle. Add to that the relentless nature of Vini and how clutch he is in big games.
For me, Vini is still our best player. A month of doing better than the crap Mbappe had shown before doesn’t really change that.
How happy are you with their synergy? Do you believe both can be optimised and co-exist?
Finishing you guess? Do you realise Mbappe is already among the best players ever for the France NT and has won the World Cup which eclipses X amount of CLs too. For me the eye test says that after Ronaldo and Messi, Mbappe is the deadliest forward we’ve seen (although Salah is having a freak season and Yamal could eventually overtake him). Vinicius is better as your typical modern forward but Mbappe is a fairly complete elite attacker. They tend to have an innate habit of winning games - that one two he played in the WC final was something not all modern wide forwards can do that, and definitely not on that stage. Great player - and not defined just by his time at Madrid. Vinicius - very good player, defined solely by his time at Madrid. Let’s see who ends up better. My money is on Mbappe.
I don’t think it is outrageous to say that Real would be better with Haaland instead of Mbappe.
He's already 2 goals away from Vini's best scoring season in La Liga (but to be fair that season Vinicius also had 13 assists).
They don’t play the same position or have the same role brief.
Mbappé is simply too good to fail for too long, great players are great players. If he’s scoring constantly and consistently for 8 years then maybe you know he’s one of the best players in the world despite all the people wishing for him to fail.
A spurious point!
Potentially, so far they haven’t’ had that many games due to injuries & suspensions.
1. So far it has been mainly one way traffic, Vini trying to find him and setting him up. Part of why he has as many goals is Vini letting him take pens and literally dribbling past the GK and still handing it to him. I’d like to see those combination plays more, things he has been doing with Jude and Rodrygo.
2. Positioning has improved, they used to occupy the same space which made it easier for the opponent.
Downside is of course neither one have great defensive effort (Vini more) so two players not contributing much is killing.
His France exploits and specifically those WC finals keep getting mentioned, but that seems to be the main thing people keep focusing on.
I’m just going by the eye test of the last couple years and imo Vini surpassed Mbappe in a lot of those footballing abilities mentioned.
Thanks for your insights and hopefully it gives some perspective to what's going on with Madrid and these two.
The big question - that still remains - is whether you can get the absolute best out of both of them at the same time in the same team, and with regard to that, it's inconclusive to this point in time.
I’ll need more convincing than two goals vs the worse footballing team in the division.
What about now, 2 months later and I'm not just talking about the hattrick just now. This guy, as predicted, will easily come good and he was just bedding in.
Heh heh heh... This is not aimed at al.gabiru as he seemed quite reasonable in his choice of words compared to others (just non believing), but people on here are just like those youtube with their clickbait titled videos ("Mbappe is done" etc), reddit and twitter goons, salivating at the thought to pounce on anyone to release their daily 'boring normal people life' frustrations. They just can't wait, four months and they are fighting eachother to be the first to draw big conclusions.
You know that people love a good hot take, especially when it comes to Mbappé. People hate the fact that he decided to stay in France and wants him to fail, it's been like that for years.
Erm this is awkward. I was talking about Zirkzee
Who I would love to get a hat trick today but can’t see that somehow
Nah, Mbappé was moved centrally to accommodate Vinícius, not the other way around. It would’ve been a valid argument if they would’ve put Mbappé on the left — but they didn’t. The rest is normal for any big team with big players, of course you have to adapt to different partners but it wasn’t unfair to Viní at all.
Exactly, and at the end it's neither a question of role, or position where anyone starts or mostly moves, but a question of attitude: If they really connect between each other and if they do it with purpose and in a clever way or they don't, while putting the team above everything most of times.
BTW Rodrygo it's the one in late games that is helping everything to gel with his solidarity, dare and movement.
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Mbappe was always going there as a striker. Mbappe veers into Vinicius preferred running lanes as that’s been him for the time he plays left or through the middle. Vinicius has to orbit Mbappe rather than play his own game. I definitely don’t think it’s business as usual for him; it’s more compromise for him than just about anyone, depending on whether we believe Bellingham was purchased to do what he did last season or to operate a bit further back.
Best case scenario: he becomes Benzema lite. I don’t think he has all the assets or quality in certain things as Benzema did, but he offers other things and it would benefit the team if he can play that role. Developing as a ball playing #9 would add a great dynamic to the attack.
Mbappé has stated many times that he prefers to play off the proper number 9 and roughly occupy that inside left channel. So, again, if we're operating with the terms like fair or unfair, that set up if more unfair to him than to Viní.
I don't think that it's a seamless fit at all, frankly, and even Carlo, probably the most inventive manager out there, struggles (so far) to maximize both of their potentials. But to say that Viní was the only who was hard done by out of the two feels a bit disingenuous to me.
Vini can play his usual game from the flank, the real issue at the end of the day it's the goal scoring oputput. If they somehow (with Rodrygo too) understand that the best path it's to actually be less sellfsh everyone of them and help each other instead of compete or play for their ego, they can perfectly work. And it's Kiki the one that mostly would have to understand that given his mates, he mostly would have to some sort of 9 in a more fixed role/position than him waiting constantly with space on a flank to be provided with advantage.
In any case, the best thing for Madrid would be that all of them (I'm including Rodrygo) switch roles within games, all of them switch places given the play and such, if that situation happens, they'll be very hard to handle for any team, but that takes time and a good relationship (at least in the pitch) between them.
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Yeah but, everyone knew he was going there as a striker and also the consequences of that for Vinicius because of how Mbappe plays. I don’t see how that is unfair to Mbappe when it is he who gets to roam and figure out his surroundings whilst the lesser names wait for him to figure it out and then adapt to him - it’s a compromise of their game, more so than his, as this #9 thing was destined with the constant courting of Real and them keeping the position vacant for him and only him.
If we’re drawing short straws, Vinicius got the worst of them because he now has to play for the benefit of someone other than himself. The likelihood also is that as Mbappe rises, Vinicius falls away, imo, because the team is set up to get the best out of Mbappe, not him.
I don’t think it’s been a case of selfishness; Vinicius has been thrust into the talismanic role throughout the years because he has been a superb big game player for years - a lot of the team mechanisms become automatic when roles are defined, and for Vinicius, the whole of that left side has been his exclusively and he has thrived.
It is no different to Bellingham having the whole of the central area last season. That wasn’t sustainable, however, as Mbappe going to Madrid was inevitable.
Why were you guys talking about zirkzee in an Mbappe threadErm this is awkward. I was talking about Zirkzee
Who I would love to get a hat trick today but can’t see that somehow
It's always a case of that in the history of the game when some major talents are all at the same time in the same team, more with similar traits and atributes...or let's forget that word, it's a question of understanding/of reading whats best for a certain play most of times (without leaving the x factor of improvising sthg out of the blue that their talent can provide). This means sometimes sacrifice (that sometimes it's not even that, it's just passing to a mate in a better position).
If they do not get this on daily basis, game per game, play by play, with the challenges every particular game puts in front of you, we won't see the best of them playing for the team and at the end and as a consequence for their best particular form. It's as simply as that since the first day anyone kicked a ball.
If Ed Woodward is still the ceo he would tell us to watch this space....
We haven't won anything yet. Our league position is very good but the Champions League looks unlikely, so as a collective the team still has to improve and as for Mbappe for me it's not that obvious who is the better player.