Kyle Walker | The Flash

padr81 said:
I think the 2nd goal was on him cause it looked like Saka had been told to push up but again had no idea how the formation was supposed to be. Saka was a lot further forward than the no mans land he was in earlier in the half. Felt like he was told go and be a RW.
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Saka just misses Cucurella's run as Walker is tucked in. Can't see what Walker could do there honestly, he has to rush out but it's too late.

England were basically playing for ET but the structure was all over the place defensively to accomplish that
 
padr81 said:
Very likely cause he was playing right sided CB.
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This isn't true. England were playing with a four at the back today unlike previous games.

I can't post images here but go look at the position map, Saka is by far the furthest player forward for England since he was back playing as a right winger. Walker was right back.
 
DennisReynolds said:
This isn't true. England were playing with a four at the back today unlike previous games.

I can't post images here but go look at the position map, Saka is by far the furthest player forward for England since he was back playing as a right winger. Walker was right back.
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Maybe he was just pinned back by Cucurella and Williams. Its interesting as he did most his best work near our box. Even if thats the case though Walker still has to go with the man in the middle running from midfield instead of leaving him a free run on goal.

Either way Kyles had a terrible tournament but I don't think first goal is on him at all at least not anymore than everyone else.
 
Played far too defensive this tournament. Only broke forward a handful of times all tournament, Southgate seemed to ask Saka to do everything himself.

Should have been getting hooked starting at 50-60 mins for Trent.
 
Abraxas said:
Played far too defensive this tournament. Only broke forward a handful of times all tournament, Southgate seemed to ask Saka to do everything himself.

Should have been getting hooked starting at 50-60 mins for Trent.
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If Trent came on it would have been more than 2-1, he can't defend to save his life
 
Red in STL said:
If Trent came on it would have been more than 2-1, he can't defend to save his life
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Is that you Gareth?

He plays every week for Liverpool, not everything he touches ends up in his own net otherwise they'd be shite.

It's a case of risk reward, the problem being we always err on the negative side of that equation and setup as such. Thinking far more about restricting the opponents than getting strikers on that can run and creative players like Palmer and Trent that might find them.
 
El Jefe said:
Dwayne Chambers with average technique. His athleticism has taken him farther than it has for any footballer in the last 30 years.
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Was going to say something similar.

Walker is and always has been prone to silly errors and lapses in concentration. It’s just that he is an incredible athlete with insane recovery pace to bail himself out of said errors and lapses in concentration.
 
Red in STL said:
If Trent came on it would have been more than 2-1, he can't defend to save his life
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With Shaw back on the other side I think he could've played Trent and gotten away with it if he pulled Rice a bit further back and asked to cover for Trent. But ultimately they were outclassed tactically. It's the same feeling I get when I watch United huff and puff but ultimately struggle against tactically solid sides in Europe or at home. Individual quality can only do so much.
 
Abraxas said:
Is that you Gareth?

He plays every week for Liverpool, not everything he touches ends up in his own net otherwise they'd be shite.

It's a case of risk reward, the problem being we always err on the negative side of that equation and setup as such. Thinking far more about restricting the opponents than getting strikers on that can run and creative players like Palmer and Trent that might find them.
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You'll never convince me on Trent, he lacks defensive concentration as a FB and if you're playing him as wing back where does Saka go?
 
Red in STL said:
You'll never convince me on Trent, he lacks defensive concentration as a FB and if you're playing him as wing back where does Saka go?
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Drifting in while Trent offers an option in support or on the overlap? I know it's a crazy idea to suggest England commit more than 1 player forward, but you can do it.

Is Saka any more of an issue than when he plays behind Salah?
 
padr81 said:
Shaw gets done by Yamal, Guehi comes across to cover. Stones then has to go to Morata so Walker goes to Olmo I think. Leaving Williams in space. The entire point of playing wingbacks (Saka) is to cover that. Watching it back a huge chunk of blame more than Walker is on Shaw for charging out to get a ball he was never gonna.
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Yup. As a Utd fan, we've seen Shaw get square on to players trying to 'press' and going into no man's land many times. Such a shame as he had a good first half but very typical of him. At first I thought Guehi could have been a bit more aggressive with covering and closing down Yamal too but perhaps I'm being a bit harsh. And then he let his man go for the winner so there's that. He also had a good tournament but those moments were costly imo.
 
DennisReynolds said:
Drifting in while Trent offers an option in support or on the overlap? I know it's a crazy idea to suggest England commit more than 1 player forward, but you can do it.

Is Saka any more of an issue than when he plays behind Salah?
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Of course you can but you have to pick the right time and it helps over the years that he had VVD to cover him to an extent
 
World Cup semi vs Croatia and twice today

3 times he's cost England goals in crucial games
 
He's lighting fast, he's strong, he's physical but losts his man quite often. His speed helps him recover but when that doesn't help he gets exposed.

He's like a prime Wan Bissaka, excellent to mark one man and almost unbeatable in one vs one but lacks concentration or positioning.

It happened at the FA cup final against us as well. I guess he was always lighting fast so as a youngster he didn't need to improve on his positioning as his speed and acceleration made up for it but as a senior player the cracks get noticed.
 
If he didn’t have blistering pace and strength, he would not get into our national team in Malaysia, let alone the England team. His defensive positioning is lazy and unintelligent, his passing is awful, he can’t cross, he can’t tackle and he shoots from 40 yards when his team is chasing a game. I just cringe whenever anyone calls him the best Premier League RB of all time over Gary Neville.

He’s basically made a career out of running faster than fast wingers and outmuscling them on the byline. Fair play to him.
 
Why are people saying England played a back 3? :confused: It was a typical back 4? Anyways, not really at fault individually for either of Spain's goals, and dealt fairly well 1vs1 with Nico all game long, probably had his best game of the tournament actually

He wasn't good throughout the tournament though
 
giorno said:
Why are people saying England played a back 3? :confused: It was a typical back 4? Anyways, not really at fault individually for either of Spain's goals, and dealt fairly well 1vs1 with Nico all game long, probably had his best game of the tournament actually

He wasn't good throughout the tournament though
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Weird. I thought Nico had him on toast
 
giorno said:
Why are people saying England played a back 3? :confused: It was a typical back 4? Anyways, not really at fault individually for either of Spain's goals, and dealt fairly well 1vs1 with Nico all game long, probably had his best game of the tournament actually

He wasn't good throughout the tournament though
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He's way out of position for the second goal.
 
Mike Smalling said:
He's way out of position for the second goal.
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The entire england team is. That's what happens when you try to push into a midblock and don't put preseure on the ball. Ultimately the "biggest" mistake is Guehi's, for letting Oyarzabal get a step on him
 
giorno said:
The entire england team is. That's what happens when you try to push into a midblock and don't put preseure on the ball. Ultimately the "biggest" mistake is Guehi's, for letting Oyarzabal get a step on him
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If he's on his line with the rest of the back four, he can easily get to Cucurella before he crosses. Unlike the first goal, there is no reason for him to be drawn centrally. I don't know what agreements they have in that defense, but when the rest of the back four retreats to cover the run Oyarzabal he stays high and is not aware of the threat of Cucurella.
 
giorno said:
The entire england team is. That's what happens when you try to push into a midblock and don't put preseure on the ball. Ultimately the "biggest" mistake is Guehi's, for letting Oyarzabal get a step on him
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This is how I saw it too. Guehi got caught out.
 
MalaysianRed7 said:
If he didn’t have blistering pace and strength, he would not get into our national team in Malaysia, let alone the England team. His defensive positioning is lazy and unintelligent, his passing is awful, he can’t cross, he can’t tackle and he shoots from 40 yards when his team is chasing a game. I just cringe whenever anyone calls him the best Premier League RB of all time over Gary Neville.

He’s basically made a career out of running faster than fast wingers and outmuscling them on the byline. Fair play to him.
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I said this earlier in the thread.

His recovery pace is his biggest weapon, Mikael Silvestre was the same, once his pace went he was shown up for how poor his defensive capabilities really were. Same will happen Walker.
 
Mike Smalling said:
If he's on his line with the rest of the back four, he can easily get to Cucurella before he crosses. Unlike the first goal, there is no reason for him to be drawn centrally. I don't know what agreements they have in that defense, but when the rest of the back four retreats to cover the run Oyarzabal he stays high and is not aware of the threat of Cucurella.
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England were a positional mess as a team. They try pushing to press Spain's build up, without actually pressing their build up, get predictably easily sliced right through. Walker is out of position initially because he was pushing up, then shows poor awareness, yes. As does Saka, but sure, Walker is a defender, it's worse from him. It's a teamwide mistake, pretty much everybody involved who could have affected that play fecked up. Walker, Saka, Palmer, Rice, Stones, Guehi
 
Oranges038 said:
I said this earlier in the thread.

His recovery pace is his biggest weapon, Mikael Silvestre was the same, once his pace went he was shown up for how poor his defensive capabilities really were. Same will happen Walker.
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Kyle Walker is 34 years old. It will be a very short fall from grace if and when it comes. When people typically talk about players losing their pace, they usually mean mid-to-late 20s. This guy is still the fastest player in any given match in his mid-30s and, unlike many other speedsters, doesn't break down every three matches.

If nothing else, he is an example of coherent team-building. Getting someone who does one or two things really well is often all you need. Neither City nor England rely on him to create from full-back. Then it's down to other players to compensate for shortcomings.
 
RedCybercafe said:
Kyle Walker is 34 years old. It will be a very short fall from grace if and when it comes. When people typically talk about players losing their pace, they usually mean mid-to-late 20s. This guy is still the fastest player in any given match in his mid-30s and, unlike many other speedsters, doesn't break down every three matches.

If nothing else, he is an example of coherent team-building. Getting someone who does one or two things really well is often all you need. Neither City nor England rely on him to create from full-back. Then it's down to other players to compensate for shortcomings.
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Silvestre was close to that age when he fell off.
It happens, not saying he's a terrible player, he's been brilliant for City and the perfect player to allow them to play high, but his actual defensive ability beyond been faster and stronger than other players has always been suspect.
 
giorno said:
Why are people saying England played a back 3? :confused: It was a typical back 4? Anyways, not really at fault individually for either of Spain's goals, and dealt fairly well 1vs1 with Nico all game long, probably had his best game of the tournament actually

He wasn't good throughout the tournament though
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Yeah, agreed on each point - it was a back 4. Walker was one of England's best players last night, comfortably his best showing of the tournament. The first four games placed demands on his passing game that he struggled with.

As for the goals, those were a collective issue where the it ripples through from the first mistake. For Spain's opener it's a series of small mistakes: Mainoo and Rice letting Olmo run off them, Bellingham letting Carvajal play the forward pass, Shaw getting caught wrong side as a result, Saka seeing the full pitch but failing to help out his full-back, Walker having to cover but could've pulled a midfielder in.

For the winner, it's just a really good goal. The collective press and shape is a bit off as there's too much space. Saka lets his full-back go, Walker doesn't quite cover, Guehi most at fault of anyone. But incisive first-time football like that in the 86th minute is almost impossible to defend against.
 
GledTheRed said:
Walker should retire from international football now.
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Whoever manages the team moving forwards should make that decision for him. He won't be able to play the next int tournament so we need to look at who plays RB then
 
Saw the goal again and nope, I'm wrong. Walker is very much a big culprit for that. England are broken by this point - physically they look finished - and the team ends up literally broken in 2 with acres of space in the middle - and the 5 guys at the back for some reason(fatigue. That's the reason, really) keep their positions instead of marking the wide open Dani Olmo. From there, Walker for whatever reason sticks around there in no man's land with his thumb up his arse instead of either tracking Cucurella - Saka is late - or actually closing down Olmo - which Rice is already doing, also late. Then it's an awesome pass-move-pass-move-pass-move on the Olmo-Oyarzabal-Cucurella axis, and finally Stones is a bit lazy covering the passing lane and Guehi get caught napping and loses Oyarzabal - this is still the worst individual mistake of the chain because it's a simple, straightforward man-marking job
 
### First Goal

I think Bellingham was too passive in pressing or applying pressure on Carvajal, which allowed Carvajal to pass the ball to Yamal. Yamal, with his abilities, dragged both Shaw and Guehi out of position (I believe Shaw was also poorly positioned). Mainoo and Rice failed to track Olmo's run, which could have been a decoy run or an attempt to get into a scoring position. Walker found himself in a difficult 2v1 situation. Saka should have dropped back to cover the right-back area to prevent the 2v1 scenario.

### Second Goal

By the time the second goal happened, England's defensive shape had already been disrupted, making it difficult to defend. Once again, Saka failed to track Spain's wide players all the way. Guehi missed his man-marking duties both outside and inside the penalty box. Stones was poorly positioned to cover the passing lane and lacked intensity in covering the cross and pass. I even think that if he had 360-degree awareness, he should have positioned himself to check for offside in this instance. Regarding Walker, his experience should have led him to better position himself in such situations. There were two options: 1. Defend against Oyarzabal, or 2. Cover the side area where Cucurella was. In my opinion, the second option was more appropriate. His poor positioning meant he failed to defend against either option effectively.

I think he played very well. He handled young Williams excellently in 1-on-1 situations. If we set aside the issue of conceding a goal due to his poor positioning, I believe he performed admirably. However, considering his age and experience, I think he should have done better with the second goal he conceded. The first goal, I understand the details of it. I also think they played mainly in a back 4( in this game),occasionally forming a back3 during the game( a lot of games).
 
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Walkers an out and out full back, playing him as part of a back 3 resulted in Williams having acres of space time and again on their right wing as Saka was wing back was up the other end offering zero defensive help to walker. I was screaming at the to to close down the space on that side long before Williams scored.
Marc Cucurella and Williams on that side v Saka and a more central walker was what cost us that game..
 
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