Kobbie Mainoo (out)

Solius said:
He's referring more to your dismissal of his answer to your question. You mock the quality of the team he last played well against which implies you don't think he plays well against big teams? @Remember the geese just pointed that out to you. Doesn't mean you aren't allowed to doubt the player, but your answer was disingenous.
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Firstly, I didn't ask a question, so he's not answering me. Secondly, I wasn't dismissing his answer per se. His answer to whoever asked that question may have been correct/provable/the consensus of opinion - I don't remember his performance in that game to be honest, but I am saying that a great game against FCSB doesn't amount to that much in terms of having had a good game. They are a championship level team and I would personally be looking back a little further for a good game, not one of his most recent against mediocre opposition.
 
when is he back from injury? Kind of forgot what it was, feels like he has been gone forever. Be just like this club to overpay him though considering he has struggled this season and feel like hasnt been on the pitch in forever.
 
FerociousCorgis said:
when is he back from injury? Kind of forgot what it was, feels like he has been gone forever. Be just like this club to overpay him though considering he has struggled this season and feel like hasnt been on the pitch in forever.
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He has a "muscle injury" whatever that is. Suggestion is we hope he can play some part in the next game but it's not a certainty he'll be ready.
 
DannyCAFC said:
You can't just pick a bunch of random players wages and use those as a barometer, these are all different clubs with different structures, contracts signed at different times with varying levels of experience and achievement at the time. It's like when people say 'well if Nunez is worth £70m then X has to be worth £100m+' as if one club's poor decision sets the market for everything else going forward.

One thing's for sure - in terms of talent he is absolutely not better than Cubarsi, and probably not Endrick although I haven't seen that much of him (and he hasn't really had much experience yet in European football). Very debatable on Yildiz but probably not as good.
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I has been fixated with salaries for quite some time, long before it became an issue. I never bought into the 'don't bother it's not your afterall' mantra and saw our wage structure spiraling out of control as proof that we're horribly run. I also believe that keeping tabs on salary at other clubs is important. Mainoo for example might be asking 190k a week. Yet no one will give him that salary considering that it would put him ahead the likes of Joao Neves (145k), Vitinha (175k) and Gavi (150k) + just shy of Camavinga and Tchouaméni (around 200k)

In terms of well run clubs what dictates salary at the top end is success. Real Madrid for example has 11 players who are over the 200k mark, PSG has 6, Arsenal has 5 as opposed to let's say Liverpool (2) and Juventus who got 1. But what seems to be pretty consistent is the amount of money paid to fringe/young players which usually go between the 60k-100k mark. Fran Garcia is on 84k, Guler is on 83k, Endrick is on 67k and Lunin is on 72k. Arsenal has Timber and Trossard on the 90k mark. Liverpool has Gomez, Tsimikas and Konate hovering the 70k-80k mark while at PSG you find Muani, Goncalo and Pacho hovering the 70k-80k mark. Barcelona has the likes of Cubarsi and Lopez just shy to the 70k mark with Garcia at 95k. Juventus had done wonders in keeping their salary down with the likes of Locatelli, Koopmeiners and Thuram being around in 57k-90k. Yet the Serie A is skint which might explain why it had become so attractive for Manchester United.

I think that we can all agree that Mainoo is at least as good as those players. I argue that he's better as he's an English international and had scored in the FA cup final. Hence why the 50k salary doesn't really make sense. Considering his injuries this season and his dip of form then I'd go to around 80k-100k with a bump in salary if certain performance milestones had been reached.
 
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Dannn411 said:
He needs to show far more than he has thus far to justify us giving him what he wants.
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If he was able to repeat last year's form then I'd say that 140k-150k would be fair. It would put him at par with the likes of Gavi and Neves. At this stage I'd go for 80k-100k
 
devilish said:
I think that we can all agree that Mainoo is at least as good as those players. I argue that he's better as he's an English international and had scored in the FA cup final. Hence why the 50k salary doesn't really make sense. Considering his injuries this season and his dip of form then I'd go to around 80k-100k with a bump in salary if certain performance milestones had been reached.
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Definitely do not agree he's as good as most of those players. I think he's not as good as many of those players and has not done nearly enough to prove otherwise yet. He has the potential to become as good or better than them, but is not today.

From a club standpoint - He has no role in our system. He is not a starter in any position in our system. In fact, if the whole squad were fit, I'm not even sure he's our first rotation option off the bench for any position. We need and will likely add more talent in CM and #10 spots, justifiably moving him further down the pecking order. And he's not a better prospect than Garnacho, who is on 50k p/w.

The reason why he thinks he can ask for more is because we had to play him a lot last season. But that's because of our shortcomings in his role, which we're slowly correcting for, and not a reflection of his overall quality.

Anything more than 50-60k would not make sense right now. If he insists upon more than that then IMO it will be better strategically for the club to take the FFP gain from selling him this summer while he still has multiple years left on current contract.
 
I dont think Capology is a good source for salary. Too big discreprancy between financial statements. Liverpool seem very particular about how they communicate players salaries.

Attached is an overview made by UEFA. They have isolated players salaries on an accumulated level for 22-23. Liverpool payed their players more than Man Utd. At this point Man Utd had players like de Gea, Casemiro, Varane, Sancho, Rashford on more than 200k a week. Even Ronaldo for part of the season. I find it very hard to believe that Liverpool only had two.

https://cdn.vev.design/private/aTCxVXgBbmVvmw45NvpIseApVuy2/26ptkb-uefa-ecfil-report-2023.pdf
 
I'm convinced all this talk about Mainoo leaving is made up paperbollocks.

Maybe it's his agent cranking the pressure up so we are forced to pay him a salary which he can't hope to live up to, at his young age.

I mean, is he going to find another club who'll pay him £180K a week, or whatever made up figure is going around?

Why can't he accept a double up, which is reviewed in summer '26 and if he continues to progress, then we can talk about a more substantial increase?
 
CasaStreets said:
Definitely do not agree he's as good as most of those players. I think he's not as good as many of those players and has not done nearly enough to prove otherwise yet. He has the potential to become as good or better than them, but is not today.

From a club standpoint - He has no role in our system. He is not a starter in any position in our system. In fact, if the whole squad were fit, I'm not even sure he's our first rotation option off the bench for any position. We need and will likely add more talent in CM and #10 spots, justifiably moving him further down the pecking order. And he's not a better prospect than Garnacho, who is on 50k p/w.

The reason why he thinks he can ask for more is because we had to play him a lot last season. But that's because of our shortcomings in his role, which we're slowly correcting for, and not a reflection of his overall quality.

Anything more than 50-60k would not make sense right now. If he insists upon more than that then IMO it will be better strategically for the club to take the FFP gain from selling him this summer while he still has multiple years left on current contract.
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It’s 2025. Whether he’s “proved” it or not, you’re going to get one of the highest rated young midfielders around to sign on for 5 years at £50k a week. It’ll be a starting rate of around £90-100k a week plus bonuses. Look at what Spurs are paying young players like Archie Gray or Dragusin. Look at what Chelsea are paying Colwill. We can’t expect Mainoo to sign with a bigger club for 2/3rd of their wage.

Mainoo has as many appearances for United as Yoro had for Lille, with a Euro final appearance on top, and we gave Yoro £115k a week.
 
Real Name said:
Or its just made up.
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All the more reason to come out and clear the air, and not let your name and reputation be dragged through the mud.

I hope it is all bullshit, but I really don't think it is, with INEOS, so far, it's been wherever there is smoke there is fire.
 
Dan_F said:
It’s 2025. Whether he’s “proved” it or not, you’re going to get one of the highest rated young midfielders around to sign on for 5 years at £50k a week. It’ll be a starting rate of around £90-100k a week plus bonuses. Look at what Spurs are paying young players like Archie Gray or Dragusin. Look at what Chelsea are paying Colwill. We can’t expect Mainoo to sign with a bigger club for 2/3rd of their wage.

Mainoo has as many appearances for United as Yoro had for Lille, with a Euro final appearance on top, and we gave Yoro £115k a week.
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Nope. Archie Gray isn't on 90-100k, he's on 75k. Dragusin is on 85k and is 23 years old.

For me (and Madrid, apparently), Yoro is on an entirely different level and trajectory vs Mainoo. He has shown both the skills and physical attributes to become exceptional.

Even if we say Kobbie has demonstrated the technical skills to make the grade at top club (I don't think he has), he certainly hasn't proven out the physical characteristics and qualities to make it - particularly his speed and stamina.

Again, don't think he's worth over 50-60k right now.
 
He's a young, emerging talent, still under contract for a few more seasons, on very low wages, and he plays in a position that we desperately need to improve in.

We'd be dumb to even consider selling him this summer.
 
Todd said:
He's a young, emerging talent, still under contract for a few more seasons, on very low wages, and he plays in a position that we desperately need to improve in.

We'd be dumb to even consider selling him this summer.
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I just don't see where he fits in on under Amorim's setup. He lacks the athleticism to get around the pitch, he's a little slow and becoming injury prone. If a stupid offer comes in we should take it.
 
So many bizarre takes in this thread. There is a severe lack of technically sound midfielders in world football yet posters are saying one of the highest rated u-20 Midfielders in the world is not worth 50mil. Crazy stuff.
 
It wouldn't surprise me if we're still in a position where we have to sell him or Garnacho before July to balance the books. Particularly given the Sancho situation and likelihood of Villa keeping Rashford.

That's the only reason I can see him going anywhere.
 
J!!Z said:
So many bizarre takes in this thread. There is a severe lack of technically sound midfielders in world football yet posters are saying one of the highest rated u-20 Midfielders in the world is not worth 50mil. Crazy stuff.
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The world of football has changed and it’s time agents, and fans woke up to that fact. There are very few clubs left in world football who will now pay 60m+ for any player for fear of financial difficulties. Even more complicated if that player expects a huge salary and bonuses. He then becomes harder to sell on.
 
CasaStreets said:
Nope. Archie Gray isn't on 90-100k, he's on 75k. Dragusin is on 85k and is 23 years old.

For me (and Madrid, apparently), Yoro is on an entirely different level and trajectory vs Mainoo. He has shown both the skills and physical attributes to become exceptional.

Even if we say Kobbie has demonstrated the technical skills to make the grade at top club (I don't think he has), he certainly hasn't proven out the physical characteristics and qualities to make it - particularly his speed and stamina.

Again, don't think he's worth over 50-60k right now.
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Yes and have Archie gray or Dragusin played in a Euro final or scored in an FA cup final? Mainoo is a better player than both and you’re suggesting that his first big contract should be 20k a week lower than an 18 year old out of the championship and a Romanian defender who seems fairly average.

The Yoro comparison is not to say that they are equal talents, but that you can’t pay one £115k at 18 and then offer the other £50k. You’re miles off the real world.
 
CasaStreets said:
Definitely do not agree he's as good as most of those players. I think he's not as good as many of those players and has not done nearly enough to prove otherwise yet. He has the potential to become as good or better than them, but is not today.

From a club standpoint - He has no role in our system. He is not a starter in any position in our system. In fact, if the whole squad were fit, I'm not even sure he's our first rotation option off the bench for any position. We need and will likely add more talent in CM and #10 spots, justifiably moving him further down the pecking order. And he's not a better prospect than Garnacho, who is on 50k p/w.

The reason why he thinks he can ask for more is because we had to play him a lot last season. But that's because of our shortcomings in his role, which we're slowly correcting for, and not a reflection of his overall quality.

Anything more than 50-60k would not make sense right now. If he insists upon more than that then IMO it will be better strategically for the club to take the FFP gain from selling him this summer while he still has multiple years left on current contract.
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I wouldn't over index on Amorim's system because he might be gone next year at the rate we've been going. I think he has a decent engine and suits that all round #8 role quite well in a 4-3-3. (Imagine Kova - Rodri - KdB midfield, he'd be the Kovacic). You'd hope leadership (Wilcox and co) can remove the system's impact on the player and evaluate their skills in isolation.

This is a good article from the athletic about this topic:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/62...ted-player-salaries-transfers/?onboarded=true

tl;dr

Offer lower salaries as a baseline but be aggressive about contract renewals and rewarding players who do well. Also thought this was interesting from Ratcliffe:

He also gave a hint that, for the elite stars, exceptions can be made. “We pay people really well at INEOS,” he said, referring to his broader business empire, “but we don’t pay too many people really well.”
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He’s not worth 180-200k a week, no one is paying him that at this stage of his career. I imagine he will end up renewing for something similar to what Yoro and Amad are earning.

If he isn’t prepared to sign for that sort of money he’ll get a bit of a shock as teams won’t be lining up to spend 65-70m to sign him and pay him 150k a week or more.
 
Dan_F said:
Yes and have Archie gray or Dragusin played in a Euro final or scored in an FA cup final? Mainoo is a better player than both and you’re suggesting that his first big contract should be 20k a week lower than an 18 year old out of the championship and a Romanian defender who seems fairly average.

The Yoro comparison is not to say that they are equal talents, but that you can’t pay one £115k at 18 and then offer the other £50k. You’re miles off the real world.
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I think you are, I honestly don't get where you think he's proven himself this much. He just doesn't have any real competition.
 
Hammondo said:
I think you are, I honestly don't get where you think he's proven himself this much. He just doesn't have any real competition.
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He was excellent last season and forced his way into the England midfield at 18 from nowhere, and didn’t look out of place. It’s revisionism to suggest otherwise.

He has some stuff to work on but at the very worst, he’s going to be a solid premier league footballer, so a wage between £80-£100k a week is absolutely no drama to us. Teams in the relegation zone are giving players that wage.
 
Dan_F said:
He was excellent last season and forced his way into the England midfield at 18 from nowhere, and didn’t look out of place. It’s revisionism to suggest otherwise.

He has some stuff to work on but at the very worst, he’s going to be a solid premier league footballer, so a wage between £80-£100k a week is absolutely no drama to us. Teams in the relegation zone are giving players that wage.
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Excellent for someone with no experience, fair enough, but he wasn't amazing otherwise. He was a player with a very good talent we lack, with weaknesses we would hope he can overcome, but has not shown to yet.

He had no competition for England or United, and next season I image we will buy a CM and he will be on the bench a lot.
 
Hammondo said:
I think you are, I honestly don't get where you think he's proven himself this much. He just doesn't have any real competition.
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To chip in, I kind of agree. I think, the state of Uniteds team has gotten the views a bit skewed, be that about Rashford in ETHs first season, or Garnacho or Kobbie. They stand out because nobody else does and while they looked good undoubtedly, there was always a chance of it being a bit of a flash in a pan. I would agree with the poster, 50k is really low, we can't really hand out significantly bigger contracts to other young players on a similar trajectory and then expect him to just take it. I'd give him something around 75-90k mark and add a nice bonus for appearances or minutes or whatever what brings him in the 110-120 region in good months. Maybe we can agree with him to renegotiate in 2 years time if he becomes a regular in the team or/and add a somewhat attractive release clause in for him so it isn't just the club to have some leverage.
 
NZT-One said:
To chip in, I kind of agree. I think, the state of Uniteds team has gotten the views a bit skewed, be that about Rashford in ETHs first season, or Garnacho or Kobbie. They stand out because nobody else does and while they looked good undoubtedly, there was always a chance of it being a bit of a flash in a pan. I would agree with the poster, 50k is really low, we can't really hand out significantly bigger contracts to other young players on a similar trajectory and then expect him to just take it. I'd give him something around 75-90k mark and add a nice bonus for appearances or minutes or whatever what brings him in the 110-120 region in good months. Maybe we can agree with him to renegotiate in 2 years time if he becomes a regular in the team or/and add a somewhat attractive release clause in for him so it isn't just the club to have some leverage.
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I would 100% agree with 75-85k.
 
I fully expect our contracts going forward to be much more aligned with what is going at Chelsea. Decent but unspectacular base salaries with a lot of potential for bonuses linked to appearances and performance. We don't overpay for duds but if a player is having a great season it is eaily within their reach to greatly increase their earnings.
 
Were people making this same 'scored an FA Cup final winner' argument constantly when J Lingz was due an extension? Seems a rather irrelevant point to me.
 
Paying this lad anymore than Garnacho, Amad or Yoro would be idiotic, if only for the fact that his next contract will only go up if he continues to improve.

If he stagnates, we’re left with (another) mediocre player on too high a wage to get rid of. £180k/week feels like the kind of figure that he should aim for at the absolute peak of his career
 
DannyCAFC said:
Were people making this same 'scored an FA Cup final winner' argument constantly when J Lingz was due an extension? Seems a rather irrelevant point to me.
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A one off goal shouldn't shape anything.

Playing so well he became an absolute regular for us and England should do.

Barely anyone has played well this season so saying he's not been as good this season is a given. We're scuffling around in 14th or so, when we thought 8th last year was an all time worst.
 
Hammondo said:
Excellent for someone with no experience, fair enough, but he wasn't amazing otherwise. He was a player with a very good talent we lack, with weaknesses we would hope he can overcome, but has not shown to yet.

He had no competition for England or United, and next season I image we will buy a CM and he will be on the bench a lot.
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No competition in the whole of England for a starting midfield spot? It doesn’t seem like we’ll agree on this, but he went into that team due to his great form for United. I’m not sure what you were watching, but he was doing things on the ball that I haven’t seen a United midfielder do since we had Pogba. His touch and ability to carry the ball is excellent.

I’ve already stated I expect his baseline wage to be £80-100k. You’ve said £75k-£85k. We’re in a very similar ballpark. £10k a week difference is peanuts. Our wage problem is from handing out wages higher than Premier League averages, not because we’ve given a first team player 90k instead of 80k.

Also, I hope we do sign another midfielder. The kid is 19 and shouldn’t be relied on as a starter, it’s far too much pressure. Same with Garnacho, although there is less pressure the further forward you play in my opinion.
 
golden_blunder said:
I feel ambivalent as to whether he stays or goes
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How much of that is down to the supposed high contract demands though?

I feel the longer this drags on, the more fans will assume it must be Mainoo who is the issue but it's a bit odd in my opinion - I can't help but think Ineos want to sell him and keep leaking this stuff to encourage fans to blame Mainoo. I reckon they have lowballed the shit out of him, they wanted to sell Nacho and they want to sell him in my opinion this summer.
 
Dan_F said:
No competition in the whole of England for a starting midfield spot? It doesn’t seem like we’ll agree on this, but he went into that team due to his great form for United. I’m not sure what you were watching, but he was doing things on the ball that I haven’t seen a United midfielder do since we had Pogba. His touch and ability to carry the ball is excellent.

I’ve already stated I expect his baseline wage to be £80-100k. You’ve said £75k-£85k. We’re in a very similar ballpark. £10k a week difference is peanuts. Our wage problem is from handing out wages higher than Premier League averages, not because we’ve given a first team player 90k instead of 80k.

Also, I hope we do sign another midfielder. The kid is 19 and shouldn’t be relied on as a starter, it’s far too much pressure. Same with Garnacho, although there is less pressure the further forward you play in my opinion.
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" His touch and ability to carry the ball is excellent." yea, as I have said thats why he gets overrated, because we rarely get those types of players. He doesn't do well at anything else though. I am not sure who was this good competition from the England squad.
 
Dan_F said:
Yes and have Archie gray or Dragusin played in a Euro final or scored in an FA cup final? Mainoo is a better player than both and you’re suggesting that his first big contract should be 20k a week lower than an 18 year old out of the championship and a Romanian defender who seems fairly average.

The Yoro comparison is not to say that they are equal talents, but that you can’t pay one £115k at 18 and then offer the other £50k. You’re miles off the real world.
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I think your argument self-defeating because Garnacho is on 50k. And IMO Garnacho has a slightly higher probability of ‘making it’ at an elite club vs Mainoo.

I think the reality is that transfers often lead to jumps in salaries - that’s often what incentivizes players to accept transfers. But moves inside the same club rarely come with 100k salaries for unproven young players.
 
Gandalf said:
I fully expect our contracts going forward to be much more aligned with what is going at Chelsea. Decent but unspectacular base salaries with a lot of potential for bonuses linked to appearances and performance. We don't overpay for duds but if a player is having a great season it is eaily within their reach to greatly increase their earnings.
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Yes, totally agree. I think, this is the way forward, but I think, the challenging part is to figure out what the KPIs for each player and for each season will be. Can't be goals and assists and clean sheets because that would be kind of unfair to every individual player. But that only makes is a little more difficult, not impossible.
Hammondo said:
" His touch and ability to carry the ball is excellent." yea, as I have said thats why he gets overrated, because we rarely get those types of players. He doesn't do well at anything else though. I am not sure who was this good competition from the England squad.
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Yeah I fully agree. There is no doubt that Kobbie has great close control and might develop a very very useful combination of physique and skillset but right now, we aren't there yet. For all his great form at some point, he also was a passenger in many games. He (for whatever reasons, maybe not even within himself) lacks the mobility and I'd say intensity which wouldn't be an issue per se but in a team that already is often outfought, it becomes an issue. I also think he has to work on his passing range for a regular spot. All this can happen and once it is there, I am happy to pay him accordingly.
 
Sassy Colin said:
I'm convinced all this talk about Mainoo leaving is made up paperbollocks.

Maybe it's his agent cranking the pressure up so we are forced to pay him a salary which he can't hope to live up to, at his young age.

I mean, is he going to find another club who'll pay him £180K a week, or whatever made up figure is going around?

Why can't he accept a double up, which is reviewed in summer '26 and if he continues to progress, then we can talk about a more substantial increase?
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I think the club needs a big sale to help balance the books and also fund the upcoming summer squad rebuild. We don't have a lot of saleable assets, Mainoo and Garnacho are the most valuable we have - if we sell one or both we will have the money to spend on the players we need to get immediate results.

So it's in their interests to offer money they know he won't accept and to brief the media that his demands are outrageous so we must sell to condition the fans. On his part, Kobie could be getting advice that this is going to be a big rebuild and by the end of it nothing is guaranteed so better to get the money now or move to a club better placed to compete at a higher level than us.
 
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