Does it? What about all the players we recently got rid of because they had bags of stamina and physicality but not enough quality on the ball? McTominay, Fred, Wan-Bissaka just to name a few off the top of my head. Garnacho has endless running and he came through around the same time as Kobbie. Ugarte and Dorgu are both recent signings with physical stamina high up on their list of assets. Bruno is noted for his freakish fitness.A big part of the Premier League now is stamina and he severely lacks it. Seems to be a constant with recent United players. He has the ability, he just needs more fitness. It’s easiest to build fitness than technical ability so I see no reason to sell him.
Surely it's he was a much better player last season than this season. He was pretty poor under ten Hag this season and wasn't much better (aside from one game as a number 10) under Amorim — but it's not like the decline in his performances had started once Amorim replace ten Han.
He certainly does lack stamina, but he is still at a growth age, so we may not see a fully fledged midfielder for a couple of years, so I, like yourself, see no reason to sell.A big part of the Premier League now is stamina and he severely lacks it. Seems to be a constant with recent United players. He has the ability, he just needs more fitness. It’s easiest to build fitness than technical ability so I see no reason to sell him.
Not keen on that debate myself but since it was asked, the answer is that Scholes was never gassed after 60 mins, 90 mins etc. however he always had great cover from wingers like Giggs, midfielders like Keane, Fletcher, park, fullbacks like Irwin or evra ans even forwards like Rooney busting a gut working backwardsI’m genuinely amazed by this response. Scholes himself, I’m sure, would openly admit that that he was nowhere near modern day footballers from an athletic point of view. I don’t even understand how this is a debate.
Not keen on that debate myself but since it was asked, the answer is that Scholes was never gassed after 60 mins, 90 mins etc. however he always had great cover from wingers like Giggs, midfielders like Keane, Fletcher, park, fullbacks like Irwin or evra ans even forwards like Rooney busting a gut working backwards
My point is that Scholes never had to run as much as Mainoo has to in this system and with players not as good. It’s comparing apples and orangesHe also had a decent burst of speed to time his runs into the box late, and he had calves like tree trunks which made him hard to knock off the ball. Strength and stamina wise, so far it's not even a comparison. In saying that though, I'm comparing 25 year old Scholes with 19 year old Mainoo. Of course Mainoo can still improve his fitness levels and strength.
My point is that Scholes never had to run as much as Mainoo has to in this system and with players not as good. It’s comparing apples and oranges
I disagree. Scholes used the long pass quite often to progress the ball, Mainoo likes to run it or pass small. By its nature that takes more energy during a match.Well he did though, he played in a 2 man midfield as a box to box. He might not have run as much as Beckham but he did plenty of hard yards.
I don't think that's a reasonable way to assess it when Scholes' regular partner was the indefatigable Roy Keane , mostly in his prime, running around like a maniac and putting in the work of two (long before Park became famed for it). Put prime Roy Keane next to Mainoo - even in a 2-man midfield - and he's not going to have to do anywhere near as much running, which in turn would mean he could better manage his stamina and use it up in shorter, more considered bursts.Well he did though, he played in a 2 man midfield as a box to box. He might not have run as much as Beckham but he did plenty of hard yards.
I don't think that's a reasonable way to assess it when Scholes' regular partner was the indefatigable Roy Keane , mostly in his prime, running around like a maniac and putting in the work of two (long before Park became famed for it). Put prime Roy Keane next to Mainoo - even in a 2-man midfield - and he's not going to have to do anywhere near as much running, which in turn would mean he could better manage his stamina and use it up in shorter, more considered bursts.
Scholes would flag a far amount when the game was too fast and we couldn't get a foothold in it. Fortunately for us and him, that happened so rarely that it couldn't be a thing as we were mostly the dominant force dictating the pace and deciding when and where it would be appropriate to turn the screw.
Scholes energy management was in another stratosphere to Mainoo's by way of his use of the ball and how much he could control a game via ball retention and recycling. Perhaps Mainoo will learn that skill in the future and it is also really unfair to compare a teenager with a grown man. Mainoo is still growing and still adjusting to his newfound size and mass whereas Scholes had already had his growing pains before making it as an established starter. Mainoo may look a completely different player by 23 - the age at which Scholes really became a star and one of the first names on the teamsheet.
I disagree. Scholes used the long pass quite often to progress the ball, Mainoo likes to run it or pass small. By its nature that takes more energy during a match.
But as I said it’s like comparing apples and oranges
I think the distinction between "moved" and "ran" are important here. Scholes could move all day and had no problem with being perpetually open due to his subtle moving around constantly working for space, but 'ran plenty himself' would need some context because when we talk about running now, we're discussing drones getting up and down the pitch in a number of the highest intensity sprints that have become so paramount in the modern game. Scholes categorically did not have to sprint repeatedly game in and game out. In fact, it's that high intensity H.I.I.T. work that is ruinous for the throwback players who are skilled but nothing like the athletes who can perform all that high octane stuff.I'm not talking about hypotheticals here. I think Beckham used to run around 12km a game which was invariably the most in the side, but Scholes ran plenty himself. The idea he just stood around like a wallflower while Keane and Becks did all his work is laughable. And yes I agree with you that he could pick his moments more than Mainoo can due to his game intelligence, passing, and midfield partners, but he picked plenty of moments to move, he hardly stopped which was why he could always find space.
I think the distinction between "moved" and "ran" are important here. Scholes could move all day and had no problem with being perpetually open due to his subtle moving around constantly working for space, but 'ran plenty himself' would need some context because when we talk about running now, we're discussing drones getting up and down the pitch in a number of the highest intensity sprints that have become so paramount in the modern game. Scholes categorically did not have to sprint repeatedly game in and game out. In fact, it's that high intensity H.I.I.T. work that is ruinous for the throwback players who are skilled but nothing like the athletes who can perform all that high octane stuff.
I think Scholes had more stamina than Kobbie myself, but the conditions set via the quality of their respective teams, and age of them as well as the way we used to dictate the pace more often than not, makes it much harder to assess. And as above, Scholes would be ruined in a high octane environment where he doesn't get to "move" more than have the readiness for yet another lung-busting sprint 40 yards before having to turn and be ready to do it again in the blink of an eye. This is where Mainoo visibly flags, but outside of that, he doesn't look much flustered, imo - it's the moment the game turns into an athletics meet that he is found wanting and absolutely bolloxed within 60 minutes.
It's interesting that you mention Beckham, who was famed for his ability to complete the beep test - put him alongside Keane and also have the absurdly athletic Giggs completing the midfield unit and it's no wonder Scholes got to pick and choose his moments. If only Mainoo had the equivalent of such talented yet supreme athletic specimens to play alongside; perhaps then he wouldn't have to do so much H.I.I.T. himself!
An easy way to assess these two is in trying to imagine what the other would look like in a team switch. Does Scholes struggle if asked to play Mainoo did/does in a terrible set up under ETH, or with so much on his plate athletically in an Amorim team? How does Mainoo do if tasked with Scholes' jobs in an all-time midfield unit?
Difficult to fit Scholes since he had many roles and was doing it on a worldclass level throughout his career.Scholes would have struggled for Ten Hag yes, but not for Amorim. He'd be better than Bruno at the CM role.
Difficult to fit Scholes since he had many roles and was doing it on a worldclass level throughout his career.
There's the CM Scholes who played with Butt or Keane in the 90s. There's the AM Scholes who scored 20+ goals along with Giggs and Solskjaer (and won the league). And there's the deep lying playmaker Scholes who can sit deep and dictate the match with his passing.
I think the first two in his younger years, Scholes would have been perfect for either roles in Amorim system. The deeplying playmaker Scholes? not so much.
Also, I'd like to point out that I don't think Amorim system required more running than the old United system, given that possession wasn't as valued like now, I'd wager that players do more running to win the ball back back then
The good news about wages now is that most of the high earners will leave soon, like Rashford, Sancho and even Cas, and with Bruno being on 250k, and his path to that wage was based on his performances, so the club can now say if you want Bruno wages then you have to give Bruno numbers, it's a lil bit under control now and Mainoo knows that the club is willing to sell him if he asks for too much wagesI really like him and he seems to have a high ceiling. I hope he stays to continue his growth. But I also have no qualms of selling him if the wage demands are true but right now he is mostly potential and giving in to high wage demands will cause more problems than not down the road.
