Steven Gerrard: 1 Champions League, 2 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, 3 League Cups
Wes Brown: 2 Champions Leagues, 5 Premier Leagues, 2 FA Cups, 2 League Cups
Wes Brown = World Class
Steven Gerrard = "PL Class"
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Steven Gerrard: 1 Champions League, 2 FA Cups, 1 UEFA Cup, 3 League Cups
Wes Brown: 2 Champions Leagues, 5 Premier Leagues, 2 FA Cups, 2 League Cups
Wes Brown = World Class
Steven Gerrard = "PL Class"
So Fergie wasn’t a world class manager because he underperformed in a cup competition?
How can Gerrard be PL Class if he’s never won the PL?
Tough one. Amazing domestic manager but possibly below the likes of Ancelotti, Paisley and Pep in overall domination of both domestic and European competition, especially given the financial advantage United had in the 90s and 00s.
When has Guardiola dominated European competitions? And what financial advantage did United have over their European counterparts?
Tbf Chelsea never broke rules that other teams were sticking too during sir alex time as manager,never forget *115 charges!I Doubt they'd have half of the prem titles they 'won' ,or the treble last season,had they not cheated.
Ancelotti has 4 league titles, hardly domestic domination, is it?
This just isn’t fair or a true representation at all.
Ancelotti and Pep have gone into the competition numerous times, as clear favourites. Guardiola probably had that every single year of his career, and neither achieved domination domestically or in Europe respectively.
Ferguson had foreigner restrictions in the first part of his tenure and was severely restricted financially in the latter part. He got to 4 finals when he had a really good team, and 2008 is the only time he arguably had the best side in Europe…and he won it.
Guardiola just couldn’t have done what Ferguson did, and Ferguson would have won so much more given those resources and lack of restrictions.
It’s just a fallacy to compare them on a level playing field like that, when that never existed.
Spot on.
Crikey, where do we start with this one.
Outside of a Utd forum. I started this line of discussion and we should probably end it because you lot just don't see it. The same excuses come rolling out decade after decade.
What line of discussion did you start, exactly?
Sir Alex Ferguson was unquestionably a world class manager. Are you actually trying to say this isn't true?
If it's players we're talking about, then by your own metrics, Steven Gerrard can't possibly be considered "world class".
At the time Stevie was a class player and probably above most other midfielders in the world with his performances. But not in the bracket of all time world class midfielders as he just hadn't won enough, regardless of any excuses I can roll out (loyal to a bad team, teammates, etc).
Same for Shearer, Le Tissier and even Gazza. That doesn't automatically make Butt a better player than Gerrard because there are nuances to any argument. However, Stevie and Ferguson needed to have won more with what they had to make higher claims.
You don’t half chat some shite. What’s the conversation “eyyyy up laaas, that Fergie bloke was abit shite wasn’t eyyy” “nah you’re alright laaa”.
Da feck is going on in here 
Masterstroke! Now we can't point out why you're so wrong about SAF without implicitly saying nice things about Gerrard. You evil genius.
Ferguson needed to have won more?
The man has 16 domestic top flight titles, two of Europe's highest honour, two of a secondary European honour, and 14 domestic cups, winning major honours across four decades.
Literally only four managers in the history of the European Cup have won it more than twice. It's an absolutely farcical metric for him not being in the absolute top bracket of managers.
People want to rewrite history.Da feck is going on in here
Ferguson is world class. Pep and Klopp are there too.
Even Younger Mourinho is there.
Wenger maybe or maybe not. Depends if you need a European winner in that group. Ancelotti in PL probably not.
But his time in Madrid puts him in there.
Same as Ferguson had impediments during the 90's to win more CL titles, is the same impediments Klopp has had when dealing with doping Pep City team in winning the PL
This is quite funny.
Yep, and Pep managing probably the best club team with the best player in football history seems completely normal
Trying to place Pep above SAF by citing United’s supposed financial advance is a particularly special form of logic.
You'd want to fill in who you support on your profile, mate. Not a hope you're not an Oppo on the WUM.
While claiming Pep, who has arguably under-achieved in Europe, somehow dominated that stage.
When Pep wins a European trophy with Aberdeen I will entertain a conversation involving himself and Fergie.
Until that day, it can get in the bin where it belongs.
Until that day, it can get in the bin where it belongs.
Also, Ancelotti for his domestic dominance, which extends as far as 5 league titles across his entire career, at clubs such as PSG, Real Madrid and Chelsea, who are of course notorious for their frugality.
Or builds a youth system that produces players like the class of 92.
https://hbr.org/2013/10/fergusons-f...rrival at Manchester,him the top young talent.
Or does anything, literally anything, with a team that isn't minted and dominant in their league.
And Fergie used to a run a pub! Until he's had a few years of pulling pints 6 nights a week down the White Lion Pep can feck off.
Da feck is going on in here
I was scrolling saying this in my head then saw your post , you had to be thereI get you’re Pool but I’ve genuinely not met a scouser who doesn’t begrudgingly admit SAF is one of the greatest. You always put Shankley/Paisley above but whatever that actually has some argument to it and neither side will look outside their own there. But to suggest someone like Pep, a manager shrouded in cheating scandals who has struggled in knock outs with a heavyweight team financially doped to the gills, is madness.
Reading that SAF wasn't a word class manager has to go down as the most amazing thing I've ever read on this forum.
People forget what SAF won with Aberdeen as well
Yep. Sure he's still the last manager to have won the Scottish top flight with a team other than Rangers or Celtic
I'll get that filled in, didn't realise I hadnt. It was honestly meant as a back-handed compliment as I'm not one to wind up - United were so far above everyone else domestically through the 90s and 00s, in terms of the playing and backroom staff, allied to cherry picking the best domestic talent, that I felt it should have translated to more success in Europe.