Kieran McKenna | Close to signing long term deal to stay at Ipswich

What's your explanation for our disastrous 21/22 campaign? Ole wasn't some authoritarian manager suppressing McKenna's influence on the team and ignoring his tactical advice.
Ole, Phelan, McKenna and Carrick were basically co-managing the team together. He had a big role in that failed management team.
From everything we were told he had a huge role in the management of the team at the time and wasn't just putting out cones in training. I really don't think my opinion is that ridiculous.
OK, then you have no basis to actually conclude tactics and coaching was not delegated by Ole. Good work.

Not that I disagree with either of you, appointing Mckenna would be a massive gamble, but I think it's quite harsh to judge him as having failed at United when he was just the assistant coach. A few weeks ago, on The Athletic's Totally Football Show, they were praising Mckenna for his work at Ipswich and Carl Anka was one of the panelists and he was talking about how Mourinho and Ole both have an incredibly high opinion of Mckenna. He also said that Mckenna's main mandate/role under Ole was working on United's defensive organization and that both Ole and the players found him to have very clear ideas which he was able to instill in training.

I also do remember there were a lot of reports in the summer leading up to Ole's sacking that many of the players thought that the training at United was "too British" and too unorganized on the ball, though I can't be bothered to find the reports right now. But it was also reported that, as @VP89 said, the players thought well of Mckenna but found him too school masterly.

Based on all that, is it not reasonable to conclude that -

1. The report that the players complained that the team was too unorganized on the ball was probably true. I distinctly remember, after a number of embarrassing losses, De Gea saying in the post match interview something along the lines of 'we don't know what we're supposed to be doing when we have the ball.'
2. The players generally thought highly of Mckenna. I mean both Ole and Mourinho's praise seems to corroborate that. He was highly rated at Spurs when he joined United's youth coaching setup and generally did well with our youth teams, didn't he? He's also done brilliantly at Ipswich, so there's obviously real coaching ability there.
3. He may not be to blame for the players looking disorganized on the ball if his job was to organize the team defensively. Like, I don't remember United being notably brilliant or bad defensively under Ole but the xGA numbers seem mostly fine, if not particularly impressive. But, by all accounts, Ipswich aren't too great defensively (I haven't seen tham at all so can't really comment) either so his defensive ideas are maybe just not that great? I do remember United being dreadful defending set pieces under Ole.
4. At Ipswich, he's had time to implement his own vision on the ball and Ipswich have scored bucketloads. So maybe at a side with better players, he can scale those attacking ideas further up?
 
What leads people to believe that succeeding at Manchester United requires prior experience in a top-tier league? If managers with comparatively less experience to McKenna , such as Pep Guardiola and Zinedine Zidane, could achieve success with Barcelona and Real Madrid, why can't McKenna replicate that at United? Some might argue it's because Pep and zidane were top players and commanded respect, but then why did accomplished players like Lampard and Roy Keane struggle as managers? Previous managers with ample experience have also faltered at United, indicating there's no direct correlation between experience and success. If McKenna is appointed now and didn't thrive, it's probable that he would face similar challenges even with Premier League experience two years later. Ultimately, success depends on talent and skill. If McKenna possesses the necessary talent, he can excel despite lacking Premier League experience. While appointing McKenna entails a degree of risk, it doesn't render him unsuitable. Sometimes, taking calculated risks, as seen with Arsenal and currently with Bayern Munich, is necessary for progress.
 
What leads people to believe that succeeding at Manchester United requires prior experience in a top-tier league? If managers with comparatively less experience to McKenna , such as Pep Guardiola and Zinedine Zidane, could achieve success with Barcelona and Real Madrid, why can't McKenna replicate that at United? Some might argue it's because Pep and zidane were top players and commanded respect, but then why did accomplished players like Lampard and Roy Keane struggle as managers? Previous managers with ample experience have also faltered at United, indicating there's no direct correlation between experience and success. If McKenna is appointed now and didn't thrive, it's probable that he would face similar challenges even with Premier League experience two years later. Ultimately, success depends on talent and skill. If McKenna possesses the necessary talent, he can excel despite lacking Premier League experience. While appointing McKenna entails a degree of risk, it doesn't render him unsuitable. Sometimes, taking calculated risks, as seen with Arsenal and currently with Bayern Munich, is necessary for progress.

We have to consider that Pep and Zidane had cheat code activated from day one with Messi and Cristiano amongst world class players. They also had the pedigree of their clubs to sign almost any player they wanted .A pedigree that we've now lost I feel. They are both outliers. Zidane hasn't done anything since so it's hard to quantify if he can do it anywhere else whilst Pep has 115 hanging over him. That said Pep has proved he is a world class tactician but it helps with all the resources he has.

I agree that if McKenna has all the skills, ideas and talent then he would succeed here irrespective of his experience in the PL. I just feel that an extra year as a PL manager with Ipswich, struggling to stay up and dealing with that adversity will help him grow even further. I don't think his stock will lower if Ipswich are relegated as long as they play the football that he wants them to play. It would simply be a limitation of the squad standards and resources that gets them relegated. Remember, the majority of the squad are Leauge One players. I think if he can keep them competitive in the EPL then his stock would further grow. Kompany could very well land one of the biggest jobs in football following relegation and I rate McKenna higher than him. There's no character building if he takes a job like Brighton - it just tells me he wants to take the easy route to a mid table club.
 
I'd take him, it might be a massive step up but he is familiar with the club and a lot of the players already so it wouldn't be too crazy of a learning curve.
 
Thankfully he destroyed United in his time here so he won't be a threat here, expect Chelsea to have no patterns of play and win everything on individual brilliance.
 
Still, going to Chelsea would be suicidal for his career.
Quite the opposite.

Because of the stigma of us being some poisoned chalice managers (usually wrongly) get the benefit of the doubt they were innocent bystanders when it goes tits up.

Spurs fell for it with AVB, United with Jose, Ajax offered Potter a second shot, even Scolari got another chance with Brazil after us.
 
I think it’s abundantly obvious to all how it’ll end if he’s appointed Chelsea manager. Our owners must have some sort of fetish for paying out severance packages.

With due respect to what McKenna has achieved, I believe Nigel Adkins also won back-to-back promotions from L1 to the PL, and I don’t want him taking over either.

Not only would I have preferred us to keep Pochettino in post, I’d go so far as to say we may as well never have sacked Graham Potter if we’re going to end up with McKenna in charge a year later anyway.
 
That sucks.

It's going to be De Zerbi at United, isn't it? :(
I'd personally love De Zerbi at United. The style of play he has done with the kind of players he had at Brighton is something amazing.
 
I'd be gutted if McKenna to Chelsea happens. I'd like to see him at United one day but much rather we were his first big club, rather than taking him when he's won a bunch of shit with Chelsea or failed there.

Hopefully he's smart enough to avoid that shitshow anyway. Brighton makes much more sense at this point in his career.

I expect money will end up making the difference unfortunately.
 
I'd be gutted if McKenna to Chelsea happens. I'd like to see him at United one day but much rather we were his first big club, rather than taking him when he's won a bunch of shit with Chelsea or failed there.

Hopefully he's smart enough to avoid that shitshow anyway. Brighton makes much more sense at this point in his career.

I expect money will end up making the difference unfortunately.
Completely agree, would love us to be the one who takes the chance on him.
 
I'd be all for us trading in ETH for a gamble on Mckenna. It's not like there's any real outstanding candidates out there currently (unless you think Tuchel is the man).
 
I'd personally love De Zerbi at United. The style of play he has done with the kind of players he had at Brighton is something amazing.

His style of play when it works is pleasing on the eye. I am not sure about it being good enough to win titles as it can be defensively very naive.

It's going to be Ten Hag.... We all know it!

Oh boy!

No, it isn't.

Probably afraid of all the verbose posts full of strawmans and goalpost shifts you are going to write on Redcafe to discredit him. :p
 
Ever? That can't be right surely, I mean it might be but it doesn't sound it
I can believe that... the PL is around for just above 30 years and it feels like there always is (at least) one freshly promoted team that surprises the league by getting better results than anybody expected and most are just thrown into the relegation battle, but it's rare that all newbies are that poor that they get relegated again.
 
There we go, if we want him then he’s ours.

I personally think if we are really going to press the reset button yet again then we should take a punt.
 
He's a massive risk, the pressure level will be totally different to Ipswich.

Brighton a much better option for him for now.

The risk of him getting sacked by Christmas, similar to Potter, is very high, he goes to Chelsea or Utd now.
 
Brighton is probably the least risky for McKenna, his heart is set on United and I think Chelsea are a dumpster fire he sold avoid.

United are a mess but we have been more patient with managers and he at least knows the WiFi password at Carrington.
 
He's a massive risk, the pressure level will be totally different to Ipswich.

Brighton a much better option for him for now.

The risk of him getting sacked by Christmas, similar to Potter, is very high, he goes to Chelsea or Utd now.
He wouldn't be getting sacked by Christmas if he goes to United. Chelsea on the other hand...
 
Brighton is probably the least risky for McKenna, his heart is set on United and I think Chelsea are a dumpster fire he sold avoid.

United are a mess but we have been more patient with managers and he at least knows the WiFi password at Carrington.
WiFi? Still on wired dialup surely.
 
I can believe that... the PL is around for just above 30 years and it feels like there always is (at least) one freshly promoted team that surprises the league by getting better results than anybody expected and most are just thrown into the relegation battle, but it's rare that all newbies are that poor that they get relegated again.

Ipswich themselves did it last time they were promoted to the EPL via the play offs. They finished 5th, only 4pts off 2nd in the 00/01 season. Mind you, we won the league that season with 80pts which wouldn't get you 3rd nowadays.
 
Probably afraid of all the verbose posts full of strawmans and goalpost shifts you are going to write on Redcafe to discredit him. :p
What are you on about? There's no narrative having De Zerbi as a favourite. You've wished it into existence by cherry picking which tweets you want to believe.
 
Just stay at Ipswich for another season Kieran, you are properly young. Sacked by Christmas at another club and it's a steep mountain to climb to regain a hard fought reputation.

At least at Ipswich the pressure is off to a certain extent, fully underdogs in every game - keep them up and his stock will be sky high.