Kieran McKenna | Close to signing long term deal to stay at Ipswich

elmo said:
I don’t think he’ll survive if he manage us solely from the fact that some of the players still remember him from his original stint and won’t give him the respect that he deserves.
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Then those non respectful players need to be eased out of the club, replaced by younger players, hopefully several from the academy, and players who are the way up, not looking for a final big pay day.
We really don't know if those players who remember him had enjoyed working under him or not, it could be that these players would actually enjoy seeing him back, we don't know.
 
red woppit said:
Then those non respectful players need to be eased out of the club, replaced by younger players, hopefully several from the academy, and players who are the way up, not looking for a final big pay day.
We really don't know if those players who remember him had enjoyed working under him or not, it could be that these players would actually enjoy seeing him back, we don't know.
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You’re preaching to the choir. If I had my way, only player above 25 that should stay is Martinez. Everybody else can feck off.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Basically, there's this romantic notion that a good manager is going to thrive wherever he goes, notwithstanding the context he is working in. Utd is currently undergoing massive change from top to bottom, and while I believe Ineos is on the right track with the blueprint they have and the people they're recruiting, it's also too early for this target operating model to be fully effective. McKenna is, for all his promising talent, still very young in the position and I don't believe it would be a good move for him to arrive in such an unsettled massive organisation. Maybe in a year or so, when the upper echelons of the Ineos blueprint are effective, why not. In the meantime, a confirmed manager is needed to navigate these transformative times.
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Or may be we can both grow and build together. I find Arsenal a comparable situation when Arteta and Edu first joined and they needed to move a few pensioners and useless players on high wages while they built in the background with talented academy players and young recruits with potential. In our current situation, he'll get the benefit of time and the opportunity to build the team in his own vision without the pressure of winning trophies immediately. All this can carry on while INEOS are building the structure and getting the support staff in place.

If let's say we are able to get a top manager, Ancelotti or Zidane for arguments sake, they would demand big players and would want to win immediately as their reputations is also on the line. We would enter the same cycle that we have repeatedly entered and failed with over the last 11 years. Instead if we hire him or Motta, then they can build everything from scratch in the next 2-3 seasons without raising the expectations too high by dropping 300m in a window. It can also help INEOS get us in line with FFP by controlling our spend and reducing our massive wage bill.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Basically, there's this romantic notion that a good manager is going to thrive wherever he goes, notwithstanding the context he is working in. Utd is currently undergoing massive change from top to bottom, and while I believe Ineos is on the right track with the blueprint they have and the people they're recruiting, it's also too early for this target operating model to be fully effective. McKenna is, for all his promising talent, still very young in the position and I don't believe it would be a good move for him to arrive in such an unsettled massive organisation. Maybe in a year or so, when the upper echelons of the Ineos blueprint are effective, why not. In the meantime, a confirmed manager is needed to navigate these transformative times.
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I think Erik has hammered home the message that a good manager will not thrive wherever he goes. He was a bad fit for us.

I don`t think we need to overthink things. Because of Erik failing here this season the feeling seems to be we are toxic waste straight through. My guess is that it is just not THAT bad. It is mostly about Erik not getting things right.
There are things we need to improve on in our organisation for sure but the manager is quickly becoming the head coach for us i believe and whoever comes in instead of Erik (i hope) will have the fairly straight forward job of setting up training sessions and get the team set up right for the games.
McKenna has done a good job getting a tune out of Ipswich and i assume there was a reason we brought him in in the first place, and also brought him up quickly from the youth to work with the first team.
Maybe it is even better to have a young inexperienced coach now that hopefully will be better at adapting and growing to the situation.
 
OsloRed said:
I see where you're coming from, and I don't necessarily disagree. Ideally we would've had a DOF and everything in place before the summer, it would have made everything a lot easier, but gardens apparently need tending a lot more than I realized. The question is; what do we do next season? Do we just wait until everything in the structures above the manager is in place and just power through with ten Hag hoping it will come good again? Do we hire a more experienced manager with the short-term in mind to steady the ship through a transitional period? Or do we take a chance on someone talented even though every piece isn't in place yet?

I have no idea what would be best, to be honest. I've never been more uncertain on what is needed, both on the playing staff side and the manager side of the equation.
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No, that's fair - I don't claim to know how the future will go and maybe my initial post ("suicide") was too strongly worded, I think it stems from the fact I admire what he's done and I'd hope for him to come in the most favourable context possible so he can give a good account of himself. I don't believe the environment is currently suited to garner excellence, but I'd be happy to be wrong, maybe the Ineos changes have already borne their fruits.
Insanity said:
Or may be we can both grow and build together. I find Arsenal a comparable situation when Arteta and Edu first joined and they needed to move a few pensioners and useless players on high wages while they built in the background with talented academy players and young recruits with potential. In our current situation, he'll get the benefit of time and the opportunity to build the team in his own vision without the pressure of winning trophies immediately. All this can carry on while INEOS are building the structure and getting the support staff in place.

If let's say we are able to get a top manager, Ancelotti or Zidane for arguments sake, they would demand big players and would want to win immediately as their reputations is also on the line. We would enter the same cycle that we have repeatedly entered and failed with over the last 11 years. Instead if we hire him or Motta, then they can build everything from scratch in the next 2-3 seasons without raising the expectations too high by dropping 300m in a window. It can also help INEOS get us in line with FFP by controlling our spend and reducing our massive wage bill.
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To your first paragraph, maybe, it's an interesting parallel. I would say the weight of expectation at Arsenal is unlike anything we have at Utd which shifts the debate somewhat, you could argue that Ten Hag isn't doing any worse in his first 2 seasons than Arteta, and look at the pressure he's under. Maybe a young, upcoming manager comes in and the progress happens on both the governance/structural side as well as on the pitch... I just find it very hard to believe that will happen. I think next year will be a bit of a "growing pains" one where everyone is just kindof settling into the new organisation. And I'm not convinced throwing a new manager into the mix, inexperienced at the high level on top of that, would be the best idea.
Gordon S said:
I think Erik has hammered home the message that a good manager will not thrive wherever he goes. He was a bad fit for us.

I don`t think we need to overthink things. Because of Erik failing here this season the feeling seems to be we are toxic waste straight through. My guess is that it is just not THAT bad. It is mostly about Erik not getting things right.
There are things we need to improve on in our organisation for sure but the manager is quickly becoming the head coach for us i believe and whoever comes in instead of Erik (i hope) will have the fairly straight forward job of setting up training sessions and get the team set up right for the games.
McKenna has done a good job getting a tune out of Ipswich and i assume there was a reason we brought him in in the first place, and also brought him up quickly from the youth to work with the first team.
Maybe it is even better to have a young inexperienced coach now that hopefully will be better at adapting and growing to the situation.
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It's possible. I don't particularly believe that to be the case, as I've said above, but I don't have a cristal ball so it's just my opinion!
 
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Rooney in Paris said:
No, that's fair - I don't claim to know how the future will go and maybe my initial post ("suicide") was too strongly worded, I think it stems from the fact I admire what he's done and I'd hope for him to come in the most favourable context possible so he can give a good account of himself. I don't believe the environment environment is currently suited to garner excellence, but I'd be happy to be wrong, maybe the Ineos changes have already borne their fruits.
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I agree with that. I appreciate the discussion here right now, lots of good points raised by several posters, and a lot less hyperbolic than much of the other discussion around at the moment. If we hire him I would love for it to be as favourable as possible, I do believe he has something about him. The problem is that it is really hard to say what the status is behind the scenes at the moment, whats happening on the pitch creates so much noise right now. Also there is just some things we will never know. Like how much influence does Ashworth have at the moment? I'm guessing it's more than is being communicated and that he is in the loop on most things happening.

The Edu/Arteta comparison is interesting. I think Arteta had more goodwill from the Arsenal fans than McKenna would have if he were to come here because of his playing career there, though.
 
To be honest, given the recent successes of Arteta, Alonso or Amorim, it wouldn't be completely crazy to appoint him. I'd take him over Southgate of Potter for sure.
 
aeh1991 said:
To be honest, given the recent successes of Arteta, Alonso or Amorim, it wouldn't be completely crazy to appoint him. I'd take him over Southgate of Potter for sure.
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This is why ETH remains in place in my opinion - Ineos are getting everything set up and then will have someone come in as a pure head coach in summer when there's at least some structure in place.
 
Of course let us go for another unproven manager to continue the "BUILDING" process while not winning anything tangible for the next decade because a certain Ferguson.. C'mon, this is modern times and we need to behave like how big clubs behave. Hire the very best and sack immediately when things go South.

We are a big club and we need to keep our huge fan base happy or lose it.
 
OsloRed said:
The Edu/Arteta comparison is interesting. I think Arteta had more goodwill from the Arsenal fans than McKenna would have if he were to come here because of his playing career there, though.
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No, a lot of Arsenal fans had lost faith with Arteta.

Luckily, they have a club who doesn't give a feck about shortsighted fans, and can make an objective assessment.
 
aeh1991 said:
To be honest, given the recent successes of Arteta, Alonso or Amorim, it wouldn't be completely crazy to appoint him. I'd take him over Southgate of Potter for sure.
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Can throw in Alonso in that mix as well. It's all about the right fit for a club. Whether the manager is as experienced as Ancelotti or as inexperienced as Alonso, the manager needs to fit the club and the club needs to be able to guve the manager all the tools to succeed.
 
OsloRed said:
I see where you're coming from, and I don't necessarily disagree. Ideally we would've had a DOF and everything in place before the summer, it would have made everything a lot easier, but gardens apparently need tending a lot more than I realized. The question is; what do we do next season? Do we just wait until everything in the structures above the manager is in place and just power through with ten Hag hoping it will come good again? Do we hire a more experienced manager with the short-term in mind to steady the ship through a transitional period? Or do we take a chance on someone talented even though every piece isn't in place yet?

I have no idea what would be best, to be honest. I've never been more uncertain on what is needed, both on the playing staff side and the manager side of the equation.
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In as much as the heart says feck it let's go for the brightest prospect and see how it goes the brain says we need an experienced head to see us through turbulent waters and solidify us in the top 4 and then get a bright prospect after a 3 year rebuild. We need what we had with Van Gaal but then make sure we take the recruitment away from that manager - an experienced coach who can impose a style but adaptable enough to go the ugly route to achieve our strategic objectives (LvG was one win at West Ham away from doing so) whilst introducing youth.
 
flameinthesun said:
Can throw in Alonso in that mix as well. It's all about the right fit for a club. Whether the manager is as experienced as Ancelotti or as inexperienced as Alonso, the manager needs to fit the club and the club needs to be able to guve the manager all the tools to succeed.
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I literally wrote Alonso in my post ;)
 
Rooney in Paris said:
To your first paragraph, maybe, it's an interesting parallel. I would say the weight of expectation at Arsenal is unlike anything we have at Utd which shifts the debate somewhat, you could argue that Ten Hag isn't doing any worse in his first 2 seasons than Arteta, and look at the pressure he's under. Maybe a young, upcoming manager comes in and the progress happens on both the governance/structural side as well as on the pitch... I just find it very hard to believe that will happen. I think next year will be a bit of a "growing pains" one where everyone is just kindof settling into the new organisation. And I'm not convinced throwing a new manager into the mix, inexperienced at the high level on top of that, would be the best idea.
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I am hoping (praying) for a slow and more pragmatic approach this time. What we have done in the last XI years is get a new manager, drop a ton of money in his inital transfer windows and chase the top 4 spot in order to keep the Adidas money intact. We used the same approach with every manager we hired before ETH. We changed it slightly for ETH and allowed him to spend a ton of cash in his second season too. However, each time it has landed us in the same situation. We get the new manager bounce, do well for a small period and then revert back to type. We call the previous manager's purchases deadwood and then give the new one a carte blanche to purchase future deadwood. I want us to break this rinse and repeat cycle.

You are right that the wight of expectations is higher at United than it is at Arsenal. However, it is time to admit that we are a fallen giant after eleven years of mismanagement. The club stupidly raises the expectations on itself by dropping a huge wad of cash which leads to short term thinking. I hope INEOS realizes that this not a short-term fix. This is a long-term project which will take 3-4 years to fix. We are the Liverpool before Klopp, the Arsenal before Arteta & Edu. It'll take us 3-4 windows to clear the mess and rebuild the team. We'll have to accept that the results are not going to be to our liking in this period. That we are not going to make the champions league for a couple of seasons and that Adidas money is going to get reduced.

INEOS might have completely different ideas but that is my understanding of the situation. Now I wouldn't say no to a Ancelloti, Zidane or Enrique; but I feel that for a long term project a manager like McKenna or Motta (may be there are more with the same pedigree) can be better options as they are young, they have shown they can play a good style of football, they can compete with the resources at hand, are more amenable and can help develop a vision for the club along with the backroom staff.
 
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Munkehboi said:
Form guide would suggest so, 3 losses on the trot plus that epic game against us in the FA Cup. Just can't take anyting for granted in the championship though as QPR has proven.
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That’s true. Although QPR secured staying in the Championship with this win.
 
top1whoisman said:
That’s true. Although QPR secured staying in the Championship with this win.
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That's a good point. QPR really needed this win and played out of their skins. I dont expect Ipswich to get anything from Hull tomorrow as Hull will be chasing down West Brom and Norwich for that play off spot. Won't be all doom and gloom for Ipswich though.

My mates tell me Wes Burns and Hirst are back for Ipswich. They've missed Burns pace on the right. Think they'll play a part in the run in.
 
Munkehboi said:
That's a good point. QPR really needed this win and played out of their skins. I dont expect Ipswich to get anything from Hull tomorrow as Hull will be chasing down West Brom and Norwich for that play off spot. Won't be all doom and gloom for Ipswich though.

My mates tell me Wes Burns and Hirst are back for Ipswich. They've missed Burns pace on the right. Think they'll play a part in the run in.
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Then again Ipswich are chasing the promotion just as much as Hull are chasing the playoff spot. So both teams should be well up for it. Think it’ll be a draw but really hope Ipswich can grab a win. Nice bit of entertainment for Saturday night.
 
Shitting hell, I’m finding this a little stressful! Trying to view tomorrow’s game at Hull as something of a free hit now. From memory they usually beat us when we go up there.

Also, hoping that Huddersfield’s future is decided by the final day. I imagine they won’t be wanting to do Leeds any favours.
 
NicolaSacco said:
I know it’s now quite likely we’ll go up, but I’m sure you understand I just can’t let myself start thinking it’s a done deal. The trauma if we don’t would be too much!
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20 years; wow, good luck for next few games, it will be a roller coaster but hopefully you finish it smiling.
 
Ipswich were relegated in 2002. And finished 4 points behind 2nd place in 2001. Massive dip that.
 
FujiVice said:
Ipswich were relegated in 2002. And finished 4 points behind 2nd place in 2001. Massive dip that.
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That 5th place finish, and the resulting UEFA cup entry the next season really did for us. A lot of the players (and fans tbf) started thinking we were better than we really were. And then, midweek trips around Europe added to that. We didn’t have the squad to cope.
 
NicolaSacco said:
I know it’s now quite likely we’ll go up, but I’m sure you understand I just can’t let myself start thinking it’s a done deal. The trauma if we don’t would be too much!
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I understand completely .. Nothing can be taken for granted .. Back to back promotions would be incredible though !!! Good Luck
 
He's done an absolutely phenomenal job, especially when you look at the other teams in the Championship that are fighting for promotion. Teams like Leicester, Leeds and Southampton all have the funding and squad to give them the advantage. Hopefully he can get that automatic promotion place with Ipswich.
 
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