Khedira

Status
Not open for further replies.
---------------Dave---------------
-------Smalling-----Jones---------
Raf-----------------------------Rojo
-------------------Khedira----------
----------Ander---------------------
Januzaj----------Rooney-------Mata
---------------Vanp------------------
 
Amadaeus said:
What does he brings to the midield? He is not a tackler, nor is he great at reading the game from a defnsive aspect.
Click to expand...

Nothing stands out because he's a pretty well rounded midfielder. He's energetic, his passing is good, he gets stuck in enough & he does read the game well.
Just because Carvalho stands in front of the back four it does not mean he reads the game well. I'm fed up with this notion that reading the game mean well in midfield means sitting in front of the back four & spraying passes about completely unopposed. Xabi Alonso & Gerrard have done it as their legs have gone. They don't read the game well because as soon as they are under any pressure they look knackered & players just run past them. It's all well & good when you're smashing teams (like Madrid normally do, Liverpool did last year & Sporting do in Portugal) as you can just sit there and do nothing.

Everyone went mad about Kroos & Schweinsteiger in the world cup, rightfully so, but Khedira was their best player against brazil & they missed him massively in the final. If you think he offers nothing in midfield & Carvalho does then you're just a blind fanboy. That's fine but just admit it as there's no other explanation.
 
herokiller84 said:
---------------Dave---------------
-------Smalling-----Jones---------
Raf-----------------------------Rojo
-------------------Khedira----------
----------Ander---------------------
Januzaj----------Rooney-------Mata
---------------Vanp------------------
Click to expand...

---------------DDG---------------
------Jones---Smalling---Rojo-------
Raf-----------------------------Shaw
-------------------Khedira----------
----------Ander---------------------
------------------Mata-------
---------------RVP---Rooney-------------

Fixed.
 
Dr Baltar said:
Nothing stands out because he's a pretty well rounded midfielder. He's energetic, his passing is good, he gets stuck in enough & he does read the game well.
Just because Carvalho stands in front of the back four it does not mean he reads the game well. I'm fed up with this notion that reading the game mean well in midfield means sitting in front of the back four & spraying passes about completely unopposed. Xabi Alonso & Gerrard have done it as their legs have gone. They don't read the game well because as soon as they are under any pressure they look knackered & players just run past them. It's all well & good when you're smashing teams (like Madrid normally do, Liverpool did last year & Sporting do in Portugal) as you can just sit there and do nothing.

Everyone went mad about Kroos & Schweinsteiger in the world cup, rightfully so, but Khedira was their best player against brazil & they missed him massively in the final. If you think he offers nothing in midfield & Carvalho does then you're just a blind fanboy. That's fine but just admit it as there's no other explanation.
Click to expand...

Carvalho offers more protection and a better midfield structure as a number 6. Nevertheless, not really arsed as I believe we can do better than Khedira, which is basically my whole point. However, I would welcome Khedira here over our current midfielders that plays in that role.
 
I don't think Khedira in the sort of midfielder we need right now. I wouldn't be against him coming what so ever, but I'd prefer a more rounded, box to box midfielder.
 
LennonNL said:
I don't think Khedira in the sort of midfielder we need right now. I wouldn't be against him coming what so ever, but I'd prefer a more rounded, box to box midfielder.
Click to expand...
Khedira is the definition of a box-to-box midfielder.
 
For the price, this makes more sense than the Vidal deal. Considering the time left for the window to close and our current management and Europe situation, I'm not sure we can pull it off.
 
LennonNL said:
Khedira is no where near as good as the likes of Vidal or Pogba in terms of attacking capability.
Click to expand...
Well we don't exactly have a choice do we? Are we picking one from Khedira, Pogba or Vidal? No of course not. Looks like we aren't getting Vidal. And Khedira could be the next best player available and for the price he is certainly worth a punt.
 
RDCR07 said:
Well we don't exactly have a choice do we? Are we picking one from Khedira, Pogba or Vidal? No of course not. Looks like we aren't getting Vidal. And Khedira could be the next best player available and for the price he is certainly worth a punt.
Click to expand...
A box to box midfielder needs to have strengths in attack - shooting, dribbling etc. Vidal and Pogba were just examples, but my point being that Khedira doesn't possess strong attacking abilities, therefore is not the ideal 'box to box' footballer that United need. He'd do a brilliant role next to Herrera, I suppose.
 
LennonNL said:
A box to box midfielder needs to have strengths in attack - shooting, dribbling etc. Vidal and Pogba were just examples, but my point being that Khedira doesn't possess strong attacking abilities, therefore is not the ideal 'box to box' footballer that United need. He'd do a brilliant role next to Herrera, I suppose.
Click to expand...

Is herrera not a box to box midfielder?
 
It doesn't really make that much sense. He's a player who thrives on off the ball movement with forward runs and using his physicality to surge through. He isn't very creative nor prolific, but he offers energy and a bit of a presence. Positionally he is rather lax and needs more of an anchor beside him to utilise him fully. We're more interested in a player to sit a little deeper and sweep up through intercepting play and - if possible - having a strong passing range from deep.
 
DWelbz19 said:
It doesn't really make that much sense. He's a player who thrives on off the ball movement with forward runs and using his physicality to surge through. He isn't very creative nor prolific, but he offers energy and a bit of a presence. Positionally he is rather lax and needs more of an anchor beside him to utilise him fully. We're more interested in a player to sit a little deeper and sweep up through intercepting play and - if possible - having a strong passing range from deep.
Click to expand...

That's how I see it too (a rival fan's perspective, but agreement nonetheless)
 
Bob Loblaw said:
That's how I see it too (a rival fan's perspective, but agreement nonetheless)
Click to expand...
It's a shame because for a player who is available with such experience and the amount of accolades, a lot of teams should be all over him but there's not many that could actually do with him at this point. Bayern are probably the one in most need, I'd say, and it seems a bit of a perfect fit.
 
GloryHunter07 said:
Like who?
Click to expand...

We've discussed a number of other options. Vidal, Strootman and Carvalho come to mind. Khedira may be our best available option, but I'm concerned we'd pay a massive sum for a player who may have already seen his best days and who's really just looking for his jackpot.
 
Truedevil said:
----------DDG----------
Rafael-Smalling-Rojo-Shaw
----Herrera--Khedira---
Mata---Rooney---Di Maria
---------Rvp--------

That's a very good looking team if you ask me with Januzaj, Carrick, Evans, Jones, Kagawa, Welbeck to come in as well as the LvG factor.
Click to expand...

Replace Smalling with Evans and it is a quality team.
 
Is he defensively solid enough though? There are quite a few who already have reservations with a potential Vidal-Herrera combination but Vidal is truly tremendous defensively and provides a genuine commanding presence in the middle of the pitch. Vidal averages 4-5 tackles a game for the past few seasons and truly contributes to the defence. Khedira struggles to average 2 tackles a game and is just decent defensively. He is also poor positional wise and tends to roam around aimlessly at times going missing for good periods of the game. He truly struggles to exert an influence on the pitch over 90 minutes that any good box-to-box midfielder should be able to do. Vidal is also excellent when it comes to contributing offensively as well, he does have an excellent goalscoring record and a good passing game. Khedira is poor when it comes to contributing in offense with rather poor passing and goals/assists record. I know I am comparing Khedira with one of the best in the business right now but even when you look at Khedira's game in isolation, there is nothing that is truly impressive. I feel there are quite a few here who are overrating him based on that game against Brazil in the world cup.

I would rather we get a defensive destroyer in the mould of De Jong or a good deeper passing midfielder in the mould of Alonso or Carrick. Khedira seems like a jack of all-trades and a decent box-to-box midfielder who wouldn't be compatible with Herrera. Never been impressed by him but I do know that he would be an improvement over the likes of Fellaini, Cleverley and Fletcher. However, I would rather wait for Carrick to return from injury than signing him. Heck I would even prefer De Jong to him.
 
Amadaeus said:
What does he brings to the midield? He is not a tackler, nor is he great at reading the game from a defnsive aspect.
Click to expand...

Energy. He does make tackles, he's just not someone to sit and protect the defence. He's more like Fletcher at his peak closing down opponents further up the pitch rather than reading play and intercepting just outside his own box. He's also good at bombing forward from midfield to support attacking moves. His quality isn't that impressive when he actually gets the ball in one of those moves, but he's the kind of player that when you have a player who has quickly dribbled the ball up the pitch and needs someone to pass the ball to, Khedira has broken his neck to provide that support and be an option

He's a good player, just not an optimal one in any way (either as an offensive cm or defensive one) and thats why I was repulsed by the idea we were going to pay superstar fees for him last summer as some rumours had suggested. If he's available for a reasonable price he'd definitely be a good buy to some of the dirty work for Ander so that he can concentrate on influencing the match with the ball at his feet.

The one drawback would be if Ander isn't available. A CM of Khedira plus Fletcher would just give us legs in midfield. A CM of he and Carrick would be defensively secure, but not much going forward. It would still be our best option. He and Cleverley would be incredibly mediocre.
 
Mainoldo said:
---------------DDG---------------
------Jones---Smalling---Rojo-------
Raf-----------------------------Shaw
-------------------Khedira----------
----------Ander---------------------
------------------Mata-------
---------------RVP---Rooney-------------

Fixed.
Click to expand...

:drool:
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
According to rumours in Germany.....he wants a move to Bayern Munich and they were always interested in him
Click to expand...

Van Gaal was not interested in 2010. Not his type of player. He does not seem to be Pep's kind of player either. Do not know how van Gaal thinks today. He is Sammer's kind of player - he likes the fighters. Beckenbauer does not count - his main job is that of a Sky pundit and Bayern only uses him as an ambassador on foreign markets. If he would have to say something Bayern would have 50 players and no philosophy...
 
Blackwidow said:
Van Gaal was not interested in 2010. Not his type of player. He does not seem to be Pep's kind of player either. Do not know how van Gaal thinks today. He is Sammer's kind of player - he likes the fighters. Beckenbauer does not count - his main job is that of a Sky pundit and Bayern only uses him as an ambassador on foreign markets. If he would have to say something Bayern would have 50 players and no philosophy...
Click to expand...
Yes Van Gaal was against Khedira (because of Alaba)
But not just Beckenbauer and Sammer are fans of Khedria.....other members of the Bayern Munich board (Hoeness or Rummenigge) are fans of him according to this reports

http://www.tz.de/sport/fc-bayern/fc-bayern-van-gaal-wollte-khedira-nicht-1078279.html
http://www.fussballtransfers.com/na...ses-spielers-lehnte-van-gaal-khedira-ab_40145
 
Hopefully Bayern do snap him up, IMO he'd join a long list of poor signings we've recently made. He's really no better a footballer than Henderson so i don't see why would go in and offer huge fee's for him. His wage demands are particularly ridiculous and i don't think that our team's passing is good enough to carry a liability like him. Defensively hes not much either, often running around aimlessly and not getting to his particular destination. The match vs Brazil most certainly isn't the level he usually plays at and anyone that's watched him for Madrid over the years would agree with that. In out state of desperation for new signings and a way forward we simply shouldn't forget to also use our heads. Signing just for Signing sake isn't going to get us any close to the level we used to be at as we've seen in recent history.
 
LennonNL said:
Khedira is no where near as good as the likes of Vidal or Pogba in terms of attacking capability.
Click to expand...

He's not as good as a 25-year old Iniesta either, hence we cannot buy him. While we're at it let's release Rafael who isn't as good as Alves in his prime and Mata who isn't as good as Zidane was.
 
I have to say I'd prefer De Jong to Khedira. No, he's not as good a player by most measures. But we've had 12 months where we've consistently needed someone who will effectively shield the centre backs. Both goals last weekend were the same, and last season it was the same game after game of midfielders attacking the box with no shield.

Khedira looked somewhat defensive at times in the context of Real Madrid's very attacking line up, and Mou used to use him from a deeper position. But I don't think he's a defensive player by any means.
 
don't get people saying no, come on, of our current midfielder's only Herrera is better than Khedira is, Carrick possibly is about the same level when fit but he's injured and getting on now, we would have to be mad in our position to turn down a player like Khedira...
 
LoiusVanGaal said:
don't get people saying no, come on, of our current midfielder's only Herrera is better than Khedira is, Carrick possibly is about the same level when fit but he's injured and getting on now, we would have to be mad in our position to turn down a player like Khedira...
Click to expand...
Plenty of midfielders are better than our current crop, it's not exactly a difficult task.

The issue with Khedira isn't that he's not good enough, he's obviously a very good player, it's whether he's a suitable partner for Herrera. I personally don't think they'd work together. He'd a bit of a headless chicken. Runs around a lot, looks good on the ball but actually isn't particularly good defensively.
 
Khedira is something of an odd case. It's like he got too good for his own good. He used to play as a defensive midfielder - it was the role he was in when he broke into the national side and he did it well. But because he has the ability to do more he seems to want to bomb forward all the time now, and he finds himself up against Kroos for both club and country. It's a bit like how Beckham never seemed to be happy playing on the right.

I'd like him at United but I think we would probably be some way off his first choice, and I'm not sure Van Gaal would want him anyway.
 
I'd prefer Song to Khedira. There, I've said it, and now I feel deeply ashamed. Mourinho described Khedira as the best in the world "at what he does" - but I'm not convinced what he does is what we need right now.

If I think of him at Madrid. I've seen Mourinho and Ancelotti try to use him instead of Alonso and instead of Modric and he wasn't much good at either role. What he is good at is disrupting an opponent's rhythm and driving forward with the ball. I guess the closest comparison I can make is Phil Jones in midfield, but 10/20 metres further forward. As a partner for Herrera or as the third man in a Herrera, ?, Di Maria midfield three :devil: (there should be a muppet smiley) I don't see it. But then that's what managers get paid to see so if he comes, I'm in favour.

As for Song, OK so he gets better the longer he goes not playing, but I can imagine him in that role. Imagination is a terrible thing.
 
I honestly don't rate him and don't want him here.

I know our midfield is shocking etc but we don't need him. Boggles my mind why we havent gone for De Jong. We are too soft in the middle and need someone like him.
 
Wow some of these comments, De Jong and Song instead of Khedira. :rolleyes: The guy is a world champion, did you guys not watch the world cup? If he was that bad he wouldn't have got into the German team, country where they don't lack a pool of talent to choose from.

He get's around the pitch, is physical, will break up play and drive the midfield forward and is not that bad on the ball as people are making out. He's exactly the type of midfielder we need, granted he's no Vidal but looks like we are not going to get him so we have to look at alternatives. We miss his type of presence and energy in midfield.
 
It doesn't matter what he has won, it matters if he fits the team. He'd just add more to our horribly balanced side by having two box-to-box midfielders. His energy and presence is given through Herrera. The boy loves to get stuck in, and is quite superior technically.
 
DWelbz19 said:
It doesn't matter what he has won, it matters if he fits the team. He'd just add more to our horribly balanced side by having two box-to-box midfielders. His energy and presence is given through Herrera. The boy loves to get stuck in, and is quite superior technically.
Click to expand...

Seems to work perfectly fine at City with Toure and Fernandinho.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.