Khedira

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kotha said:
Which midfielders according to you are available right now that are complete? While waiting for a complete midfielder our midfield is getting worse,so a signing like khedira especially for the price mentioned in this thread would be a bargain. Even if we get Vidal we need one more midfielder for cover incase of injuries
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In terms of the most pressing concern in midfield, Schneiderlin, Gonalons, William Carvalho and Luiz Gustavo probably fit the bill. Gustavo has ruled himself and I believe I caught rumour somewhere that the release clause in his contract has expired. Gonalons has also reportedly agreed to stay. The others should definitely be attainable, not for £8m, but that's obviously because they are important players to their teams.

You'd trust the scouting team and van Gaal to be monitoring lesser reputed players of that ilk but they are often pivotal parts of their teams, and as such time is only our enemy.

Herrera is already a good #8 so there isn't much point to getting another one whilst world class ones aren't available.
 
Balu said:
Schweini is better at everything than Khedira, but it was always Schweini holding, playing the disciplined role, and Khedira playing an attacking box to box midfield role for Germany. In pretty much all games at the World Cup Khedira was the most advanced midfielder of our midfield three, he usually played further forward than Kroos. Khedira adds a lot great off the ball runs to the team, you want him to move a lot, add energy. It's not that important that creativity from CM is positioned further forward, you need someone to build up from deep anyway, so Schweini deep was the better choice in that combination. Özil/Götze added creativity in and around the final third.
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i meant over the last several years.

but as far as this world cup, i would have said it was Sweiny who was the one who was all over the field and appeared more of a box-to-box sort.

but perhaps i'm getting selective vision due to the fact that Sweiny was so good in both defense and attack.
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
:lol: I thought it was you I spoke about that with, but I always get you mixed up with an "irish045" or something similar... how you finding it?

I think Carrick and Herrera are better football players and more complete midfielders, I don't rate Khedira and think he will be found out, RM have an abundance of attacking mids, not so many good defensive mids (See Barca and Bayern), yet they are still happy to let him go cheap despite having years on his contract left?

My point about Tiote is the role he plays and his experience in the PL, Khedira isn't the quickest, but does have bundles of energy admittedly but I don't think that's what we are after, we need a bit more control and I don't think he's that, hes a good wildcard, like a cheap man's Luiz if you like those anologies... Vidal does so much more than Khedira, but I don't think we need a "Vidal role" desperately, what we need is some of vidal's calibre, which is rare, hence why I'd still pay over the odds for him, but Khedira for me wouldn't get a game, I'd have it as one of Carrick/ Herrera/ Khed & one of Clev/Fell/Andow/Fletch (New Mid)* hopes
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Yeah agreed about the Carrick bit. A younger Carrick would be ideal (hence I'd have loved someone like Gundogan to partner Herrera). I don't rate Khedira that highly either, but at any price around or below £15m, we should be in for him to add a bit of quality > quantity.

We can take the other bit to the Strain thread ;)
 
gooDevil said:
i meant over the last several years.

i would have said it was Sweiny who was the one who was all over the field and appeared more of a box-to-box sort.

but perhaps i'm getting selective vision due to the fact that Sweiny was so good in both defense and attack.
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You must be. Khedira has never played a holding role for Germany (or for Real Madrid, unless Alonso was injured).
 
Bob Loblaw said:
You must be. Khedira has never played a holding role for Germany (or for Real Madrid, unless Alonso was injured).
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And this is why the signing wouldn't make much sense. Wenger himself classified him as a box-to-box and said he already has enough offensive midfield options, just like we do. It's a cheap fee for a decent player, but he's not the kind we need.
 
He's not a holding midfielder but I'd replace the likes of Fellaini and Cleverley with him. He does a bit of everything, is solid, works hard and has legs to make strong runs. He's not one to solve problems but as a squad player he'd be really good.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
You must be. Khedira has never played a holding role for Germany (or for Real Madrid, unless Alonso was injured).
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What? Sure he did, he was always a defensive midfielder, not at the world-cup though. He would be a big upgrade on Fellaini/Fletcher/Cleverley. His work-rate is excactly what we need in our midfield IMO. But at that price you know it can only be fake news.
 
Spielmacher said:
What? Sure he did, he was always a defensive midfielder, not at the world-cup though. He would be a big upgrade on Fellaini/Fletcher/Cleverley. But at that price you know it can only be fake news.
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I never really watched Germany in qualifiers so I can't say anything about that (@Balu suggests he didn't play there then either though) but at every international tournament I've seen him at he was always the most advanced midfielder. His style just isn't suited for a holding role, and he lacks the discipline needed for it.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
I never really watched Germany in qualifiers so I can't say anything about that (@Balu suggests he didn't play there then either though) but at every international tournament I've seen him at he was always the most advanced midfielder. His style just isn't suited for a holding role, and he lacks the discipline needed for it.
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I have no doubt that he could play the most defensive role in a midfield three of him, Herrera and Mata. I never realized any big tactical flaws in his game and I know that he was as box-to-box as they come at the world-cup and partly in 2013 prior his injury, which I couldn't really understand to be honest. But he was mostly a defensive-midfielder for Real and for Stuttgart, not a Makelele of course, wouldn't want a Makelele/De Jong in our team.
 
gooDevil said:
i meant over the last several years.

but as far as this world cup, i would have said it was Sweiny who was the one who was all over the field and appeared more of a box-to-box sort.

but perhaps i'm getting selective vision due to the fact that Sweiny was so good in both defense and attack.
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Even back in 2010 it was usually Schweinsteiger playing the holding role and it never changed. There were a few moments within games where Schweinsteiger temporarely moved forward with someone else holding, like against Argentina in 2010 or Holland in 2012, but very rarely and definitely not often enough to call Schweinsteiger's role for Germany box to box.
 
I never understood why we never take advantage of real madrid summer sale, they usually sell for decent prices as well. Since the days of Makélélé real madrid have sold some brilliant players and we almost never seem interested.
 
He's a bit like Chelsea's Ramires but with far more discipline/tact and less explosiveness.
 
Balu said:
Even back in 2010 it was usually Schweinsteiger playing the holding role and it never changed. There were a few moments within games where Schweinsteiger temporarely moved forward with someone else holding, like against Argentina in 2010 or Holland in 2012, but very rarely and definitely not often enough to call Schweinsteiger's role for Germany box to box.
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Exactly. If anything Khedira was more of the Box to Box midfielder when they both were the CM pairing in the 4-2-3-1.
 
This transfer is too obvious for it to happen. Weren't we interested in him last season? Sometimes I wish Moyes stayed until July (wait, hear me out!) so he could bring in his targets rather than wait and see like LvG has done. I fail to see how Kroos (if reports are to be believed), Khedira, Carvalho, etc. would fail to improve our midfield and more importantly, our team. LvG inherited dross, I'm sure he wouldn't have minded it with two extra World Cup winners in his team.
 
People talking about 'holding players'.. We haven't had a 'holding player' since the PL started.
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
@2mufc0 Sorry, you'll find a lot do just post without researching and it can be tedious, but I spoke too soon.

http://www.realmadridnews.com/real-madrid-extend-sami-khediras-contract-2018-6053 that's what I have...

Anyone know the best official source for stuff like this?
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Well, it's well established that Real wanted to extend his contract last year -despite his injury. That's all your source says.
They allegedly wanted to double his wages to about €4m per year.
Khedira turned down all those offers because he wanted higher wages. And to be honest I think he's worth more than €4m per year.

Anyway, Khedira didn't extend his contract and is still on his first contract from 2010 which runs until 2015.
 
On the playing position thing there's not much evidence from Madrid last year because between the injury and his position in the squad he didn't play that much. Prior to last season Madrid played a 442 most of the time, and when Khedira played he generally sat alongside Alonso or Modric in centre midfield.

He's not a positionally/tactically astute defender and he's not a great playmaker, but he's lively and aggressive. He breaks up a lot of attacks - aka gives away fouls on the halfway line. In many ways he's the player that Fellaini was claimed (by his fans) to be.

If we've got a job for him he would be a good buy because he's a good hardworking team player, he's available and we can afford him. If we don't have a job for him though, then it doesn't matter how cheap he is.
 
Carrick is not a holding player. He *might* become one, but he is not one naturally.

Khedira isn't either but he is a quality player.
 
REJE said:
People talking about 'holding players'.. We haven't had a 'holding player' since the PL started.
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so Ince wasnt a holding player then
Nor it would appear was Robson or Keane (especially in their latter seasons)
And what were Hargreaves and Butt's positions then.
How about Fletcher.
plus djemba-djemba, and didnt Kleberson win the world cup as the holding player in Brazils midfield as well - thats why we brought him.
 
sincher said:
Carrick is not a holding player. He *might* become one, but he is not one naturally.

Khedira isn't either but he is a quality player.
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I'd call Carrick a holding midfielder. I obviously haven't seen Man Utd as much as you but from the good amount I watch he plays similarly to Alonso - responsible for distributing the ball around midfield, sure, but doesn't burst forward often and defensively he's always in the right place to make interceptions.
 
Khedira would be a reasonable buy if Fellaini leaves us. I'm not sure about his wages though. I've heard he he wants an awful lot...
 
We need a player that can make himself available to the back four, get the ball and make a forward pass, along with providing a shield to the defence when we don't have the ball, sounds like Carrick to me.
 
"I don’t think we’ve had a holding player since I’ve been here. We’ve never had a holding player."

- Sir Alex Ferguson


Though I guess you guys are better at identifying what type of players we have than Sir Alex was.
 
REJE said:
"I don’t think we’ve had a holding player since I’ve been here. We’ve never had a holding player."

- Sir Alex Ferguson


Though I guess you guys are better at identifying what type of players we have than Sir Alex was.
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You should also write what he said after that sentence...

“We tried to get Roy Keane to do that but he just couldn’t do it. He had to play a way that was his own way of playing, so I’ve not had it for 25 years. Why should I think about it now?”
 
zain said:
You should also write what he said after that sentence...

“We tried to get Roy Keane to do that but he just couldn’t do it. He had to play a way that was his own way of playing, so I’ve not had it for 25 years. Why should I think about it now?”
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What has that part have to do with anything I said? If he attempted to or not, it doesn't change the fact that we've never had a pure holding midfielder. So no, I didn't need to write what he said after that sentence..
 
REJE said:
What has that part have to do with anything I said? If he attempted to or not, it doesn't change the fact that we've never had a pure holding midfielder. So no, I didn't need to write what he said after that sentence..
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Because Keane DID play in that role during the latter part of his career.. Whether he was effective or not was another matter.. But he was played with the intent to be one...
 
If he is available we should go and get him... He would make our midfield so much better..
 
I think many under estimate Khedira. He would be a better purchase than Herrera in my opinion and become a revelation in the premier league.
 
Carrick, who has been our most important central midfielder for years now, developed into what can hardly be called anything but a holding midfielder rather soon. His contributions in a more "box-to-box" capacity became few and far between soon enough, and his role, in a 4-4-2 of sorts (which Fergie favoured in most matches) was that of a deep lying, holding midfielder, whose function was at least partly to screen the defense.

I don't care what Fergie says. That has obviously been Carrick's role for us during most of his United career. I suspect by "holder" Fergie means a Makelele style defensive midfielder, whose creative input is close to zero. Carrick has obviously never been the latter. But he has been a holder alright. Someone who would normally complement a more adventurous player who likes to surge forward to a greater extent.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Carrick, who has been our most important central midfielder for years now, developed into what can hardly be called anything but a holding midfielder rather soon. His contributions in a more "box-to-box" capacity became few and far between soon enough, and his role, in a 4-4-2 of sorts (which Fergie favoured in most matches) was that of a deep lying, holding midfielder, whose function was at least partly to screen the defense.

I don't care what Fergie says. That has obviously been Carrick's role for us during most of his United career. I suspect by "holder" Fergie means a Makelele style defensive midfielder, whose creative input is close to zero. Carrick has obviously never been the latter. But he has been a holder alright. Someone who would normally complement a more adventurous player who likes to surge forward to a greater extent.
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I always thought that was plain obvious. Schweinsteiger isn't a destroyer either, even though he clearly played the role of a holding midfielder next to Khedira for Germany for the last 5 years. He just offers more than the limited version of that role, but you still need someone holding in your team in pretty much every formation/tactic in football.
 
The Madrid press are very surprised that we aren't the front runners for Di Maria Khedira (doh), but apparently right now, we aren't even seriously in the hunt.

I don't know if that's because we've already been knocked back by Khedira's agent or we don't like the wages package we'd need to offer, or if we just aren't interested at any price.
 
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LuessiT said:
Khedira would be a reasonable buy if Fellaini leaves us. I'm not sure about his wages though. I've heard he he wants an awful lot...
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TBH if the papers are right and Real expected him to extend his contract with a salary of €4m (up from €2m) when he's now entering his prime(27) ... I'm not surprised that Khedira turned them down due to salary issues.
I think a lot in Khediras case would be something between €6-7m. Which isn't all that much in the Prem.
 
jojojo said:
The Madrid press are very surprised that we aren't the front runners for Di Maria, but apparently right now, we aren't even seriously in the hunt.

I don't know if that's because we've already been knocked back by Khedira's agent or we don't like the wages package we'd need to offer, or if we just aren't interested at any price.
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I doubt we're interested at all.

EDIT: In Khedira.
 
If Carrick isn't a holding midfielder then what is he? A deep lying playmaker?
 
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