Kevin De Bruyne

giorno said:
He's the best attacking midfielder since at least Zidane and one of the best ever in terms of ability and talent. He 100% needs the CL because his talent demands it, because he rightfully won't get that level of recognition without the big moments that only come from either CL or international football. It'd be like Messi finishing his career without a WC
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Better than Kaka?
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
I'll say it again;

KDB is the player people mis-remember Gerrard as being.
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I think De Bruyne shows you the benefit of playing for a great team, for example he done very little against Madrid in their last game, 81% pass success which is decent, 31 passes made compared to Kroos with 56 or Modric with 49. Created may be one chance and spent most of the game fading in and out on the periphery at times, until he scored his goal. When you play for a great team it allows you the platform to cruise, until the right moment, and when the right moment comes you still get the praise.

I didn't watch that Madrid and City game feeling De Bruyne was the best midfielder or the best player on the pitch, that was Modric and Vini for me.

De Bruyne making 31 passes at 81% pass accuracy is not a vintage midfield performance.
 
padr81 said:
I'd say yes though Kaka was the far better goalscorer in his peak.
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I think Kaka was better for one or two seasons, in 07 his peak was very very high, overall i think De Bruyne will go down as the greater player though, but if judging on peak i could only put Ronaldinho and Zidane over Kaka in the last couple decades in terms of attacking midfielders.
 
Righteous Steps said:
I think Kaka was better for one or two seasons, in 07 his peak was very very high, overall i think De Bruyne will go down as the greater player though, but if judging on peak i could only put Ronaldinho and Zidane over Kaka in the last couple decades in terms of attacking midfielders.
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Agreed. Kaka for a couple of seasons at Milan was just ridiculous. I think its a pity Madrid didn't go as well as people envisioned or he'd be in the discussion for the best of all time.
 
Righteous Steps said:
I think De Bruyne shows you the benefit of playing for a great team, for example he done very little against Madrid in their last game, 81% pass success which is decent, 31 passes made compared to Kroos with 56 or Modric with 49. Created may be one chance and spent most of the game fading in and out on the periphery at times, until he scored his goal. When you play for a great team it allows you the platform to cruise, until the right moment, and when the right moment comes you still get the praise.

I didn't watch that Madrid and City game feeling De Bruyne was the best midfielder or the best player on the pitch, that was Modric and Vini for me.

De Bruyne making 31 passes at 81% pass accuracy is not a vintage midfield performance.
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Pass completion counts for nothing with attacking/creative players. KDB himself called it a useless stat.

Kevin De Bruyne: “I think pass completion is one of the most wasteful stats for players like me, maybe for defensive midfielders it’s important but not for me. I can have 96% pass completion and I can play sideways and backwards, I wasn't dangerous for the whole game. It means I've done nothing. What's the point of it?”

The most productive players in the league always have 75-80% ish.
 
padr81 said:
Pass completion counts for nothing with attacking/creative players. KDB himself called it a useless stat.

Kevin De Bruyne: “I think pass completion is one of the most wasteful stats for players like me, maybe for defensive midfielders it’s important but not for me. I can have 96% pass completion and I can play sideways and backwards, I wasn't dangerous for the whole game. It means I've done nothing. What's the point of it?”

The most productive players in the league always have 75-80% ish.
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Yes i saw that interview, with Ferdinand wasn't it? And i agree.

I'm just bringing it in the context of the comparison with Gerrard because that was a stick used to beat him with his whole career. A more pertinent stat though would be pass involvement, De Bruyne had 31 passes the whole game, whether an attacking midfielder or defensive midfielder i feel like the more touches you get of the ball generally the better, at the same time you can still have a great game having lesser touches of the ball but being more decisive in the final or in a DM case the first third. I've seen De Bruyne have better games but these are the type of games Gerrard was called a 'Moments player' for. That criticism only really sticks in a less successful team, as in a successful one players are defined by moments and the realization that other players can cover for them in their bad or average times.
 
giorno said:
In terms of talent and ability yes, way better. Kaka has that crazy CL run in 2007 going for him though, which KdB lacks as of yet. Hence why I say he needs the CL
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Wow crazy you say that, i feel like Kaka dribbling and carrying of the ball at speed was incredible, De Bruyne was a better passer(and Kaka was good at this too) but wouldn't say he had more natural talent and ability.
 
Righteous Steps said:
I think De Bruyne shows you the benefit of playing for a great team, for example he done very little against Madrid in their last game, 81% pass success which is decent, 31 passes made compared to Kroos with 56 or Modric with 49. Created may be one chance and spent most of the game fading in and out on the periphery at times, until he scored his goal. When you play for a great team it allows you the platform to cruise, until the right moment, and when the right moment comes you still get the praise.

I didn't watch that Madrid and City game feeling De Bruyne was the best midfielder or the best player on the pitch, that was Modric and Vini for me.

De Bruyne making 31 passes at 81% pass accuracy is not a vintage midfield performance.
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See, this is why stats, in general, suck.

He banged in a worldie past a top keeper, and took a draw back to his home ground against the current holders. Who cars about vintage, not every world-class game have to be Keane v Juve.
 
I don't think Kaka should be compared to KDB personally (Just my opinion - don't shoot me!). If you're bringing Kaka into the conversation based on his 2-3 seasons at his peak then you have to bring in the likes of Yaya Toure. The guy for a few years was absolutely unplayable as an attacking mid. I rate KDB higher because he's never dropped off, he's been outstanding every single year and he's head and shoulders above the likes of Gerrard and Lampard, he's the only guy i'd put alongside Scholes ability wise. KDB is almost like some kind of mad scientists experiment to form a Beckham/Scholes hybrid in some respects. He can play central or right, his crossing is incredible and his long and short game is impeccable and he can shoot from distance accurately.

Again, just my personal opinion.
 
Righteous Steps said:
Yes i saw that interview, with Ferdinand wasn't it? And i agree.

I'm just bringing it in the context of the comparison with Gerrard because that was a stick used to beat him with his whole career. A more pertinent stat though would be pass involvement, De Bruyne had 31 passes the whole game, whether an attacking midfielder or defensive midfielder i feel like the more touches you get of the ball generally the better, at the same time you can still have a great game having lesser touches of the ball but being more decisive in the final or in a DM case the first third. I've seen De Bruyne have better games but these are the type of games Gerrard was called a 'Moments player' for. That criticism only really sticks in a less successful team, as in a successful one players are defined by moments and the realization that other players can cover for them in their bad or average times.
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Agree with that, for the most part I thought KDB had a poorish game vs Real (as did all our attack cept maybe Grealish). I was shocked to see KDB get motm over Vinicius. Funny enough I actually see KDB very much as a moments player, he has games where he dominates but particularly in big games he def delivers in moments and more so as he's gotten older. I've said it about him since we first signed him, KDB is the kinda guy who can have a 4/10 game and then out of nowhere finish with a goal and assist or 2 assists and get an 8/10 rating. I think Bruno is somewhat similar on a slightly lower level. As was Gerrard and Lampard. They are all end product players and imho KDB has the best end product of them all.

None of them really control an entire game like Rodri or Gundogan or Scholes used to (when Scholes moved to an 8). In fact I think that was England with Gerrard, Lampard and Becks problem. All players who drift in and out of games and have magic moments. What they really needed was a Carrick or Rodri who actually do control the midfield to allow them to have those moment. I think its unfair to say Gerrard was just a moments player, honestly I see him as a very slighty poorer KDB (and even that is arguable).
 
iHicksy said:
I don't think Kaka should be compared to KDB personally (Just my opinion - don't shoot me!). If you're bringing Kaka into the conversation based on his 2-3 seasons at his peak then you have to bring in the likes of Yaya Toure. The guy for a few years was absolutely unplayable as an attacking mid. I rate KDB higher because he's never dropped off, he's been outstanding every single year and he's head and shoulders above the likes of Gerrard and Lampard, he's the only guy i'd put alongside Scholes ability wise. KDB is almost like some kind of mad scientists experiment to form a Beckham/Scholes hybrid in some respects. He can play central or right, his crossing is incredible and his long and short game is impeccable and he can shoot from distance accurately.

Again, just my personal opinion.
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KDB really isn't like Scholes, I don't see the comparison between the two other than them both being midfield greats. He shares a lot with Beckham though.


Also heads and shoulders above Lampard, why can't people make posts without ridiculous hyperbole attached?
 
iHicksy said:
I don't think Kaka should be compared to KDB personally (Just my opinion - don't shoot me!). If you're bringing Kaka into the conversation based on his 2-3 seasons at his peak then you have to bring in the likes of Yaya Toure. The guy for a few years was absolutely unplayable as an attacking mid. I rate KDB higher because he's never dropped off, he's been outstanding every single year and he's head and shoulders above the likes of Gerrard and Lampard, he's the only guy i'd put alongside Scholes ability wise. KDB is almost like some kind of mad scientists experiment to form a Beckham/Scholes hybrid in some respects. He can play central or right, his crossing is incredible and his long and short game is impeccable and he can shoot from distance accurately.

Again, just my personal opinion.
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And a pretty good comment about 2-3 year period - Yaya Toure is spot on in that context and I'm sure if I put my mind to it I could come up with a few others
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Cruyff isn't a top five player imo.

But I'm not sure we disagree or do I understand your Ronaldo point tbh.

My point is simply using WC performances to attest the best player of all time is a little overweighted due to the circumstances of your country of birth.
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The world cup on its own cannot be used to determine who is the greatest ever. But, for any player who has been great in club football, it is a huge advantage in the grand scheme of things (the goat race) to atleast perform at an elite level for their country in big competitions and there is none bigger than the world cup.

Most would have Cruijff in top 5 or 6.
 
At present De Bruyne is definitely operating at a level where he’s for sure in the conversation for the best player in the world in current form. If City do a treble he might have a shot at the Ballon D’or too.

That being said his international exploits have been pretty disappointing thus far. But then that’s not just down to him is it.
 
BlueMoonOutcast said:
Truly generational player. Does he really need to win the champions league to get his flowers?
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I think so. As he’s always been a bit of a fair weather player compared to the best midfielders. That doesn’t seem to be the case this season. Generational? I mean Modric is easily better than him and will go down as comfortably better. But after that in the post Xavi Iniesta era, KDB is the best.
 
Joel Miller said:
At present De Bruyne is definitely operating at a level where he’s for sure in the conversation for the best player in the world in current form. If City do a treble he might have a shot at the Ballon D’or too.

That being said his international exploits have been pretty disappointing thus far. But then that’s not just down to him is it.
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He’s definitely better than Haaland so if they win the treble he should be the strongest contender from City (vs Messi and Mbappe).
 
kouroux said:
I have rarely a purer shot than the one he scored against Real Madrid. Technically, it was sublime, I could watch on loop forever
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Sorry for being all top red but I’m not watching that shit more than once. feck City
 
amolbhatia50k said:
He’s definitely better than Haaland so if they win the treble he should be the strongest contender from City (vs Messi and Mbappe).
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Forget it, Messi will will Ballon D'Or, deservedly or otherwise
 
amolbhatia50k said:
He’s definitely better than Haaland so if they win the treble he should be the strongest contender from City (vs Messi and Mbappe).
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I completely agree. Messi will no doubt win it on account of a pretty spectacular World Cup. But if someone else has to get it KDB would be a really strong candidate should they do a treble (or even double of the PL and CL).
 
mshnsh said:
The world cup on its own cannot be used to determine who is the greatest ever. But, for any player who has been great in club football, it is a huge advantage in the grand scheme of things (the goat race) to atleast perform at an elite level for their country in big competitions and there is none bigger than the world cup.

Most would have Cruijff in top 5 or 6.
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Top ten for me!
 
Righteous Steps said:
Wow crazy you say that, i feel like Kaka dribbling and carrying of the ball at speed was incredible, De Bruyne was a better passer(and Kaka was good at this too) but wouldn't say he had more natural talent and ability.
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I feel Kaka wouldn't be as good/effective if he played in 2023 football as opposed to his era, and I don't think anybody would consider him an attacking midfielder either
 
At least in terms of domestic play in the Premier League over the last couple decades, KDB's final third output is off the charts for CAM/10 type players, guys who didn't play at least partly as out and out strikers like Rooney or Van Persie. I was looking at how unusual Martin Odegaard's season of 22 non-penalty goals plus assists was compared to others and found the following in terms of number of PL seasons for each player with 22 or more npg+a.

Ozil - 1
Gerrard - 1
Lampard - 2
Cesc - 2
Yaya - 1
Mata - 1
Silva - 0
Bruno - 0
KDB - 5 (!)
 
Powderfinger said:
At least in terms of domestic play in the Premier League over the last couple decades, KDB's final third output is off the charts for CAM/10 type players, guys who didn't play at least partly as out and out strikers like Rooney or Van Persie. I was looking at how unusual Martin Odegaard's season of 22 non-penalty goals plus assists was compared to others and found the following in terms of number of PL seasons for each player with 22 or more npg+a.

Ozil - 1
Gerrard - 1
Lampard - 2
Cesc - 2
Yaya - 1
Mata - 1
Silva - 0
Bruno - 0
KDB - 5 (!)
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You have to account some for City's supercharged attacks carrying some weight in that, but also, City signed him off a 16G 28A - no penalties - season for fecking wolfsburg

The guy is quite simply one of the greatest attacking playmakers the sport has ever seen
 
giorno said:
You have to account some for City's supercharged attacks carrying some weight in that, but also, City signed him off a 16G 28A - no penalties - season for fecking wolfsburg

The guy is quite simply one of the greatest attacking playmakers the sport has ever seen
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Think it was Henry that said its his intelligence and how he sees the game as opposed to tekkers that make him so good.
Found it.
 
giorno said:
In terms of talent and ability yes, way better. Kaka has that crazy CL run in 2007 going for him though, which KdB lacks as of yet. Hence why I say he needs the CL
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Random, but how are you feeling about the second leg?
 
He probably could've been remembered as a true great, such a shame he wasted his career for a club nobody cares about.
 
Might sound weird since City have lots of great players but for me he carries City. If he has a good game, City will win. When he's off, the usually get dumped out of the CL.

For me personally the first tactic I'd play against City is to Park Ji Sung KDB. Forget if it frees up space elsewhere, you're still coming up ahead.
 
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