Point still stands. We won 9/14. That’s dominance. Three in a row twice, something they are yet to do.
Kevin De Bruyne
- Thread starter Robbie Boy
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
I did not, I'm willing to bet that KDB does not pass Lampard's non-penalty goal tally if he makes it to over 600 games.
Plus, that's not his role. Willing to give Lampard the credit in that field, as he's not bettering KDB in any other department.
Were Chelsea ever anywhere near as strong as this City squad?
Top EPL player. That’s it, really.
I would argue that in those 9 of 14 there were about 3 different sides. Sir Alex being able to rebuild his sides again and again is one of the reasons he is the greatest coach in football history.
Man Utd are undeniably the greatest club in the history of the Premier League.
I would still argue that no single side we had was ever as dominant for a sustained period as City have been from around 2018 to now. You acting like that is a laughable perspective is honestly just bizarre. Every metric proves it to be the case.
Oh Lampard is definitely a better goalscorer overall.
I just think considering that is the only part of the game that he surpasses KDB at really drives home how much better De Bruyne is when you realise that even that aspect is reasonably close.
Yes
Lampard at Chelsea was playing with very talented players. So did most of the players mentioned in this thread (Keane, Vieira). If the measure of quality is how many mediocre players you played along then sure, Gerrard is the best midfielder in PL history. Followed by Robbo most likely. Then Gary Speed.
You do realise they came second to Liverpool in that period.
You’ll probably say they scored more goals than Liverpool or something and that’s fine but Liverpool destroyed them by 18 points.
The simple fact is that City have yet to win 3 league titles in a row. By that metric they are less dominant than us quite obviously.
Some wild takes in this thread! Liverpool being a dominant force, City being the best and most dominant side in PL history. Feck me! 
Much better than Lampard and better than Gerrard too. But the farhar you put both rhose players above Scholes says a lot
That's some interesting maths. For Lampard it's 145/609 = 23,8%.
Moreover, this obviously doesn't mean that Lampard scored in 23,8% of his matches and de Bruyne in 26,43%, as it would only be true if they never scored more than one goal in a game. The correct conclusion is that Lampard scored 0,238 non-penalty goals per game and de Bruyne 0,2643.
See, I'm not getting into this argument. It's clear that Liverpool dominated the EPL alongside City by looking at their points total alone those last years. Denying that seems pretty childish to me, but whatever.
That's what I mean with "convenient". When teams you like are at the top, it is because they are so good. If you don't like them, it is because the competition is shit. Truth is nobody can tell if the standard of football is better or worse because there's no way to prove either side. But what we know is that City and Liverpool dominated EPL seasons in unprecedented fashion (see their point records) at a time in which EPL clubs performed at their best in relation to the other leagues in Europe. Plus, the financial gap between the EPL and all other leagues has never been as big as it currently is.
Of course they played with talented players. The point I made is that being a key player in such a heavily stacked squad doesn’t automatically drop you into a list of greatest PL players ever. And for what it’s worth, you know as well as I do how much more weighted this City squad is in comparison to title winning teams before.
It’s amazing to read some of these posts. Atleast he wasn’t calling Liverpool the most dominant in history, I expect someone will pop up with that thoughIt’s not really though has it. They are not the most dominant PL side
You’re being intellectually dishonest; you shouldn’t do that. There’s not a single poster on this site who would struggle to reel off the superpowers of Europe over the allotted time period. Nearly all of them have collapsed and are in the process of rebuilding or languishing in the doldrums such as ourselves, Atlético and Barcelona.
Dominating points totals, way to go Liverpool!
Any way this thread has shown there’s Atleast 10 United players that have been better than de bruyne, he may get into the top twenty
Lampard is stupidly underrated.
DeBruyne is better.
I'd actually go further and say I believe the standard of football is constantly improving bar the really super teams Barca/United from the 08-10's etc.. teams now would batter teams from that era. The best teams are always the here and now just like the best tennis players, the best runners etc... simply because technology, coaching, diet, supplements and even ped's all improve and will continue to improve. Certain teams from back then would hold their own to an extent but if you had last seasons PL play peak 2010 PL in 20 matches 1st vs 1st down to 20th vs 20th. Last seasons top 20 would absolutely dominate.
Current City, Real or even France would batter Brazil 1970 or United 1999 and I don't think its even debateable. The only way this changes is if those older teams had access to sport science, nutrition etc.. of the same standard from the off.
There's 20 players fighting for the top 10 in PL so I think its a bit wrong to dismiss certain players as absolute musts. There's probably only 5 players that are certainties the others are all debatable.
Henry, Shearer, Ronaldo, Rooney, Giggs, Cantona, Keane, Vieira, Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard, Rio, Terry, Vidic, Schmeichel, Hazard, Salah, De Bruyne, Suarez, Yaya Toure, Aguero, Cech, Kane.
That's 23 players, and each player has a case in my opinion. Some stronger than others but other every player here has something going for them. It then depends on whether you value team trophies, personal accolades, individual peaks or longevity. KDB might be a top 10 players, not sure he'd make my list but it's not outrageous.
Henry, Shearer, Ronaldo, Rooney, Giggs, Cantona, Keane, Vieira, Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard, Rio, Terry, Vidic, Schmeichel, Hazard, Salah, De Bruyne, Suarez, Yaya Toure, Aguero, Cech, Kane.
That's 23 players, and each player has a case in my opinion. Some stronger than others but other every player here has something going for them. It then depends on whether you value team trophies, personal accolades, individual peaks or longevity. KDB might be a top 10 players, not sure he'd make my list but it's not outrageous.
Haha I meant Hazard, i was actually taking a trip down memory lane and watching some old chelsea clips on youtube with robben/duff on the wings and clearly had a brain fart.
Meh, Lampard scored over 20 league goals for a stupid amount of seasons, it was of course his assist that beat us in the FA Cup final and he was man of the match by some distance for me in our CL final. A CL final that featured Ronaldo, Drogba, Rooney, Terry, Tevez, Scholes, Carrick, Rio, Evra, Ballack, Makelele. Only a lick of paint of the posts stopped him from scoring a brace with an exquisite chip over a 6ft 6 keeper and beating us.
Would KDB stand out as the best player on the park in that company? Maybe, maybe not.
I hate comparing players that didn’t play at the same time, I can only imagine that Lampard would score 30+ goals a year playing for Pep in his prime.
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Surprised you think Lampard was man of the match in that game.
Van der Sar was the official man of the match for starters.
I'm struggling to remember much from Lampard in that game bar that incredible fortuitous deflection that let him tap in for their equaliser.
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You forgot this?
And of course a United player that won the shootout won the official award.
The goal he scored was absolutely brilliant anticipation and finish, typical of him as a player.
Invisible tonight.
1. Including penalties
2. Really? That's a high claim. I absolutely do not recall Lampard being heads and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch.
3. That is a very myopic criterion for determining who's better, "who would perform better in one game". Why not... look at their entire bodies of work?
4. Maybe if he took penalties for City he'd eclipse 30 goals.
City will still win this
Edit: feck wrong thread
Edit: feck wrong thread
Does hitting the crossbar make you man of the match then?
United missed some pretty great chances first half.
Lampard the man of the match in 2008? My memory might be out of whack but surely not? He scored and played fine, was never man of the match though (not sure anyone really stood out as such that night)
Don't know where some people are getting their stats from, but Lampard has the better goals per game percentage whichever way you look at it:
Lampard PL - Goals to game ratio: 28.96%
De Bruyne PL - Goals to game ratio: 26.43%
Total career:
Lampard - 29.98%
De Bruyne - 24.33%
Lampard PL - Goals to game ratio: 28.96%
De Bruyne PL - Goals to game ratio: 26.43%
Total career:
Lampard - 29.98%
De Bruyne - 24.33%
No, I'm being the exact opposite. Your argument is irrational because it is based solely on your subjective impression. As @padr81 said, football is ever evolving. If you transported a team from 10 years ago into today's time and play it against a team of similar relative quality today, it would get destroyed. So you can always only compare with your temporaries and it is a fact that City and Liverpool over the past five years or so were farther ahead of their domestic competition than any EPL team before them. And the argument that the domestic competition is weak is also pointless because the gap between the EPL and the second best league is also bigger than ever before.
Of course there are
Holy moly, is your first post really describing Lampard’s goal in the CL final?
Man Utd 2023 would absolutely desecrate Bayer Leverkusen 2002, just sayin’
Not saying much. Leverkusen are famous for beating themselvesMan Utd 2023 would absolutely desecrate Bauer Leverkusen 2002, just sayin’
I really wish we scored that second goal
Had to re-watch it to see what I missed.
Not a lot - he runs in a straight line and Pleat (i think) words it as "two lucky deflections" and he just taps it in.
Man Utd 2023 would absolutely desecrate Bayer Leverkusen 2002, just sayin’
The real question is would Leverkusen 2023 destory Man United 2002?