Keir Starmer Labour Leader

[Untied]

Just to reiterate, people on the Labour right (and some of the Conservative voters in this thread) are celebrating Starmer for doing precisely what the EHRC said not to do.

This definitely was a real problem and not about factional politics

 

[ZupZup]

It is entirely possible that as we've been told for the last years, Corbyn is stubborn and naive, and actually does feel that the report is unfair.

Do you genuinely not believe that the issue of antisemitism in Labour was exaggerated for political gain?

See, I believe there was an issue of antisemitism in the Labour party... whilst I also believe the above to be true. Therefore, as Starmer says, I should be nowhere near the Labour party.,

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Starmer was touring the country, speaking at Labour Party meetings across the country whilst he was Brexit secretary. He's the one with a longstanding agenda.

...what?

 

[Shamwow]

If the electorate still amazingly decides to reward this corrupt, inept Tory regime with another term then that's their prerogative. I'll vote for whatever party represents my values.

So trying to persuade the electorate is pointless and trying to utilise influence within a political party is whack. Do you just wait around for the party that perfectly fits your values to appear and vote that one?

 

[NinjaFletch]

Just to reiterate, people on the Labour right (and some of the Conservative voters in this thread) are celebrating Starmer for doing precisely what the EHRC said not to do.

This definitely was a real problem and not about factional politics

I thought the EHRC report was a Jewish conspiracy and best ignored?

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Just to reiterate, people on the Labour right (and some of the Conservative voters in this thread) are celebrating Starmer for doing precisely what the EHRC said not to do.

This definitely was a real problem and not about factional politics

I'm still reading the report but it does seem that there is a genuine issue so far to me.

That, however, doesn't deflect from the fact that this has been gleefully weaponised to destroy Corbyn who I see no evidence is antisemitic (and plenty of evidence to the contrary).

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

 

[Shamwow]

Do you genuinely not believe that the issue of antisemitism in Labour was exaggerated for political gain?

See, I believe there was an issue of antisemitism in the Labour party... whilst I also believe the above to be true. Therefore, as Starmer says, I should be nowhere near the Labour party.,

I absolutely believe that it was exaggerated for political gain, but problems still exist but what does it matter at this point? This morning was not the time for Corbyn to make that statement. It's essentially done and dusted now. There is no further argument to be won that is worth fighting for when it comes to whether Labour under Corbyn significant failings with anti-semitism in the short to medium term, and if the history books vindicate Corbyn then lovely but who really cares?

Don't fight to get this decision withdrawn. Not happening. Fight for dealing with rampant transphobia within our political parties including Labour, and all the bigotry that the Tories do. Push them to complete their independent report that has been dragging on. Push the EHRC to properly review it etc. These are things that could actually help to improve our main parties and the country, instead of arguing over who exactly was responsible for all of Labour's failings and whether the scrutiny was proportionate.

 

[Untied]

...what?

He's been angling for the leadership for years. You made it sound like Corbyn deliberately is trying to get suspended whereas the truth is probably that Starmer has been intending and plotting to suspend Corbyn and purge the left for years.

I thought the EHRC report was a Jewish conspiracy and best ignored?

Are people just going to keep libelling me in this thread. Jesus Christ, it doesn't do a great job for the notion that antisemitism is a real issue when you are just fabricating things I've never said

 

[Frosty]

Corbyn's former spokesman

 

[Kaos]

So trying to persuade the electorate is pointless and trying to utilise influence within a political party is whack. Do you just wait around for the party that perfectly fits your values to appear and vote that one?

Nope, I pick the party which best represents my values, and currently that isn't Starmer's labour. Not sure what's hard so understand about that. Its not just a knee jerk to suspending Corbyn either, Starmer essentially lost my support when he, as a supposed human rights lawyer voted with the government to protect serving troops from war crimes and torture prosecutions, and even suspended the whip from Labour mps who decided not to.

There are currently a handful of parties who I'd rather vote for than this current iteration of the Labour party.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

I absolutely believe that it was exaggerated for political gain, but problems still exist but what does it matter at this point? This morning was not the time for Corbyn to make that statement. It's essentially done and dusted now. There is no further argument to be won that is worth fighting for when it comes to whether Labour under Corbyn significant failings with anti-semitism in the short to medium term, and if the history books vindicate Corbyn then lovely but who really cares?

Don't fight to get this decision withdrawn. Not happening. Fight for dealing with rampant transphobia within our political parties including Labour, and all the bigotry that the Tories do. Push them to complete their independent report that has been dragging on. Push the EHRC to properly review it etc. These are things that could actually help to improve our main parties and the country, instead of arguing over who exactly was responsible for all of Labour's failings and whether the scrutiny was proportionate.

I agree to a large extent but Corbyn isn't that type of man. He'll stand his ground and the left will surgically removed from Labour.

 

[Frosty]

Urgent Shadow Cabinet meeting at 4pm

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Are people just going to keep libelling me in this thread. Jesus Christ, it doesn't do a great job for the notion that antisemitism is a real issue when you are just fabricating things I've never said

Yes they are.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

He's been angling for the leadership for years. You made it sound like Corbyn deliberately is trying to get suspended whereas the truth is probably that Starmer has been intending and plotting to suspend Corbyn and purge the left for years.

I think Corbyn was probably trying to get suspended, yes. Or cause another needless rift in the party. I don't think Starmer wanted the massive headache of suspending Corbyn and dealing with the shitshow that will follow, or at least, not right now.

All Corbyn had to say was: "I welcome the publication of the Equalities and Human Rights Council report and accept its findings. I apologise for the historic failings of the Labour Party in its tackling of anti-semitism and for my role in that. The leader has my full support in implementing the recommendations of the report in full."

Is that so hard?

 

[esmufc07]

What a mess. I’ve been busy today can somebody summarise the key findings? And Corbyn has been suspended for his remarks following the report and not the report itself, correct?

 

[Shamwow]

Nope, I pick the party which best represents my values, and currently that isn't Starmer's labour. Not sure what's hard so understand about that. Its not just a knee jerk to suspending Corbyn either, Starmer essentially lost my support when he, as a supposed human rights lawyer voted with the government to protect serving troops from war crimes and torture prosecutions, and even suspended the whip from Labour mps who decided not to.

There are currently a handful of parties who I'd rather vote for than this current iteration of the Labour party.

Fair enough, who can you see yourself voting for now? Greens seem to be overtaking Lib Dems in the polls and I'd expect them to become even more relevant once Covid is largely over and everyone remembers that we are heading to climate catastrophe.

 

[Kaos]

Fair enough, who can you see yourself voting for now? Greens seem to be overtaking Lib Dems in the polls and I'd expect them to become even more relevant once Covid is largely over and everyone remembers that we are heading to climate catastrophe.

I actually voted Lib dem (as a paying Labour member) in the last election since they had a better chance of unseating our local Tory, and they thankfully did. I am however moving into a marginal Lab/Tory battleground where it becomes a real dilemma. I'd likely vote for the Lib Dems again since the Greens have zero presence there.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Fair enough, who can you see yourself voting for now? Greens seem to be overtaking Lib Dems in the polls and I'd expect them to become even more relevant once Covid is largely over and everyone remembers that we are heading to climate catastrophe.

Personally, it's Greens all the way but Labour lost me in the late 90s and Scotland is a whole different political arena.

 

[Frosty]

What a mess. I’ve been busy today can somebody summarise the key findings? And Corbyn has been suspended for his remarks following the report and not the report itself, correct?

Key findings:

Labour Leader's Office responsible for ‘unlawful’ political interference in AS cases

Report recommends Labour commits to new complaints process

Report did not find any individual legally responsible for failures

And yes, Corbyn was suspended for his remarks and failure to withdraw them.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

What a mess. I’ve been busy today can somebody summarise the key findings? And Corbyn has been suspended for his remarks following the report and not the report itself, correct?

Brief summary of the EHRC findings, but it is worth reading the full report:

The Labour party broke equalities law including harassment and discrimination over antisemitism in the party, an investigation by the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) has found.

In a long-awaited report, the EHRC said there were “serious failings in the Labour party leadership in addressing antisemitism and an inadequate process for handling antisemitism complaints”.

It said Labour under the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn was responsible for three breaches of the Equality Act, connected to harassment, political interference in antisemitism complaints and inadequate training for those handling the complaints.

The EHRC’s lead investigator, Alasdair Henderson, said the failure of leadership must ultimately stop with Corbyn. “As the leader of the party at the time, and given the extent of the failings we found in the political interference within the leader of the opposition’s office, Jeremy Corbyn is ultimately accountable and responsible for what happened at that time,” Henderson said.

The inquiry found that antisemitic comments by Ken Livingstone, the former London mayor, and Pam Bromley, a councillor in Rossendale, Lancashire, amounted to harassment of Jewish members under law, and this was “only the tip of the iceberg” of such behaviour.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...nt-and-discrimination-in-antisemitism-inquiry

Corbyn then came out and shat on the report, saying anti-semitism in the Labour Party was “dramatically overstated for political reasons” and "I do not accept all of its findings".

 

[esmufc07]

Key findings:

Labour Leader's Office responsible for ‘unlawful’ political interference in AS cases

Report recommends Labour commits to new complaints process

Report did not find any individual legally responsible for failures

And yes, Corbyn was suspended for his remarks and failure to withdraw them.

Thanks, I’ll have a read of the report later when I can.

Seems a deliberate move from Corbyn to put Starmer in a position where he had to make a decision?

 

[esmufc07]

Brief summary of the EHRC findings, but it is worth reading the full report:

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...nt-and-discrimination-in-antisemitism-inquiry

Corbyn then came out and shat on the report, saying anti-semitism in the Labour Party was “dramatically overstated for political reasons” and "I do not accept all of its findings".

Thanks Michael.

 

[Shamwow]

I actually voted Lib dem (as a paying Labour member) in the last election since they had a better chance of unseating our local Tory, and they thankfully did. I am however moving into a marginal Lab/Tory battleground where it becomes a real dilemma. I'd likely vote for the Lib Dems again since the Greens have zero presence there.

I hate having my politics defined by what I'm against, but that choice for me would be made by how terrible the Tories are in comparison to Labour. And they really are that terrible.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

I think Corbyn was probably trying to get suspended, yes. Or cause another needless rift in the party. I don't think Starmer wanted the massive headache of suspending Corbyn and dealing with the shitshow that will follow, or at least, not right now.

All Corbyn had to say was: "I welcome the publication of the Equalities and Human Rights Council report and accept its findings. I apologise for the historic failings of the Labour Party in its tackling of anti-semitism and for my role in that. The leader has my full support in implementing the recommendations of the report in full."

Is that so hard?

I think this is precisely what Starmer wants. Remove Corbyn and his allies providing a clean slate. It's the core of his election strategy and it could well work.
It's the death of Labour as a party of the left of course but that's probably what wins elections in Britain.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think Corbyn was probably trying to get suspended, yes. Or cause another needless rift in the party. I don't think Starmer wanted the massive headache of suspending Corbyn and dealing with the shitshow that will follow, or at least, not right now.

All Corbyn had to say was: "I welcome the publication of the Equalities and Human Rights Council report and accept its findings. I apologise for the historic failings of the Labour Party in its tackling of anti-semitism and for my role in that. The leader has my full support in implementing the recommendations of the report in full."

Is that so hard?

If we’re to believe @Untied and this is the end game in a long-running plot by Starmer to oust Corbyn then he’s been an unbelievably soft target, when such a simple statement could have avoided this outcome.

Which really just highlights how lacking he is/was in the sort of basic political competence you need to lead the opposition.

 

[Kaos]

Whats the union response to this? I'd imagine Starmer is potentially facing a financial blackhole considering the bulk of Labour's funding has come from paying members and union support. Or will he try and court the ex New Labour donors back into the party like his Blairite predecessors?

 

[Fingeredmouse]

If we’re to believe @Untied and this is the end game in a long-running plot by Starmer to oust Corbyn then he’s been an unbelievably soft target, when such a simple statement could have avoided this outcome.

Which really just highlights how lacking he is/was in the sort of basic political competence you need to lead the opposition.

He can't play politics. Which is a big drawback for a career politician. It is, however, to my mind to be regretted that politics is such a game.

 

[NinjaFletch]

He's been angling for the leadership for years. You made it sound like Corbyn deliberately is trying to get suspended whereas the truth is probably that Starmer has been intending and plotting to suspend Corbyn and purge the left for years.



Are people just going to keep libelling me in this thread. Jesus Christ, it doesn't do a great job for the notion that antisemitism is a real issue when you are just fabricating things I've never said

So correct me if I'm wrong. You don't think that the EHRC investigation and subsequent report was a politically motivated witch hunt instigated by a shadowy cabal of Jewish organisations which have ties to the state of Israel who have grossly exaggerated the issue of anti-semitism in the Labour party?

Because if you don't I'd probably consider clarifying what you do mean.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

It would be really hard to handle this shit show worse.

 

[Frosty]

This would be a massive mistake in my view.

 

[Smores]

It'll be interesting to see if this sets an expectation from the Tory probe into islamaphobia. Anyone who dares downplay the issue or suggest alternative motives as they have done in the past will be expected to go?

 

[Frosty]

Whats the union response to this? I'd imagine Starmer is potentially facing a financial blackhole considering the bulk of Labour's funding has come from paying members and union support. Or will he try and court the ex New Labour donors back into the party like his Blairite predecessors?

Unite may take action.

I think the others won't react because if Unite steps back Unison and the rest get more power in the party.

 

[Kaos]

It'll be interesting to see if this sets an expectation from the Tory probe into islamaphobia. Anyone who dares downplay the issue or suggest alternative motives as they have done in the past will be expected to go?

No chance. The probe will be dismissed because the country is too busy tackling Corona virus or some malarkey and also because Islamophobia is pretty palatable anyway, and the Tory party's own issue with antisemitism will be laughed off as deflection. With Corbyn gone, this country had finally rid itself of politically institutional racism.

 

[Frosty]

 

[esmufc07]

I’ve always found it very odd how Corbyn has to mention all forms of racism when talking about antisemitism.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

 

[MikeUpNorth]

I’ve always found it very odd how Corbyn has to mention all forms of racism when talking about antisemitism.

Yep. It's so transparent. They don't want to be seen as anti-semitic, but we all know it's not the kind of racism that really animates them.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Guys, Corbyn knew exactly what he was doing with that statement, and by releasing it before the leader of the party held their press conference. Don't get drawn into his games.

All he had to say was: "I welcome the publication of the Equalities and Human Rights Council report and accept its findings. I apologise for the historic failings of the Labour Party in its tackling of anti-semitism and for my role in that. The leader has my full support in implementing the recommendations of the report in full."

Agree. He can't legitimately be stupid enough to think that what he did wouldn't result in his suspension. On the other hand......

 

[Smores]

I’ve always found it very odd how Corbyn has to mention all forms of racism when talking about antisemitism.

Agreed it has always come across as odd, think it's a pride thing.

That comparison doesn't work though does it?