This is a very good point. Can't say immediately if I agree 100%, but it's certainly crucial to the overall situation.
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
I’d agree with that too although Starmer has become leader at potentially a very opportune time for Labour. Whatever his weaknesses, his strengths seem well aligned with the moment.
There's no such thing as a smear when it comes to Labour leaders and using that term is just a cowardly cop out. Keep up.
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The landslide successes of the right in recent years have made me very sceptical of such optimism. When centrists or leftists were confident of having a winning formula, they often failed (although in some instances it was down to the electoral system as well.).
Looking beyond the UK (I don't live there), I see the following basic problem in many places: The right is far more united, as their mass support is more sociologically coherent & more receptive to nutty symbolic politics and identity rather than appeals to rational political interest. The cultural divide @Adisa talked about is the perfect environment for them to thrive, and they of course foster it further.
The (more-or-less) liberal center and social-democratic left are much more divided, as they're more focused on their quite large practical differences, which I guess also reflect their sociological bases to a degree. (Not to say they aren't ideological, but their identitarian offers don't appeal to groups large enough to win.)
So a typical constellation of our times would be two blocks of halfways similar* strength - one can act as a block when push comes to shove, the other as a shaky coalition at best (and it doesn't work).
Going back to the UK, where I think all of this largely applies: I'm not sure how the "rational politics" Starmer offers (in the eyes of his proponents) should make a fundamental difference there. Although I'd appreciate it if they did.
* (Not everywhere, of course - just a generalized image to make a point)
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This is a good UK specific breakdown of what you’re touching on here. Not sure what the solution is for Labour because the compromise they need to make is all but impossible given the ideological outlook of both factions of the general membership.
Personally I didn’t vote for Starmer but hope that he can be pragmatic in his approach.
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Yup there's certainly big differences, I was thinking more in that part of their appeal lay in projecting competence and being highly intelligent, but that this can sometimes come unstuck when face to face with the electorate. The comparison is far from perfect given that Brown was a long-established part of New Labour and much of his downfall was due to the crash, it's just one area where I can see him potentially failing as an individual rather than anything political. Politics is tough and, as May showed in 2017, you can go from being viewed as highly competent and in control to the scrap heap in a snap of the fingers.
Still, I'm also hoping he can take after another London lawyer with a reputation for quiet competence who succeeded a bearded septuagenarian pacifist in a time of international crisis.
What does this mean exactly? Did the government have access to a magic money tree to fund these economic interventions?
Nah, the rich people agreed to pay for it all. They used Corbyns budgeting techniques to manage it.
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Now you've got that one out of the way, could you give a real answer to the question? What's the distinction you're drawing?
Are you saying my answer isn't substantial enough to satisfy your requirements? Why should I be held to a higher standard than Jezza?
I think labour is going to be in the wilderness for some time. I think David Milliband still has hopes of coming back.
Not sure what makes you think that.
He has had plenty of opportunities.
I certainly wouldn't write off Labour yet.
I do believe that people are rightly asking questions about the government handling of the CV19 crisis.
And the economy will take some time to recover.
And don't forget Brexit and the after effects of probably leaving with out a trading arrangement with the EU.
Plenty of opportunities for them to fail to deliver on their promises.
Interesting series of tweets from a pollster on the challenges and opportunities for Starmer.
Anyone else think Tony "Baldrick" Robinson is a cnut or just me?
Labour antisemitism investigation will not be sent to equality commission
http://news.sky.com/story/labour-an...l-not-be-sent-to-equality-commission-11972071
http://news.sky.com/story/labour-an...l-not-be-sent-to-equality-commission-11972071
If they have evidence for some of the claims in there it would be a massive blow to Labour's credibility on the issue post-Corbyn. The current narrative is that Corbyn's office, either because of incompetence, blind-spots, cronyism or active anti-Semitism, was responsible for lax and slow investigation of anti-Semitism cases and that everything will go back to normal now he's gone. That narrative becomes untenable if there's evidence that McNichol et al. knowingly misled the leader's office as to the number of cases outstanding and the speed at which they could be dealt with. Stands to reason that sort of evidence would harm Labour's case - it would basically demonstrate that, on top of any concerns about anti-Semitism on the left, a significant number of establishment party figures from the centre were actively sabotaging the party's ability to root out anti-Semitism over a period of years.
The left will roll out Jeremy and Bernie again in 2024 and there's nothing anyone can do about it
The Tories have started twisting the facts again:
An orchestrated attack by CCHQ:
New opposition leader so they were bound to start attacking him. Best get used to it. One might have thought they'd wait until hundreds of people weren't dying every day but then that's not the Tory way.
So much for cooperating fully with the ehrc
Wasn't there worries about bankruptcy
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...estigation-corbyn-executive-a9153561.html?amp
Will be interesting to see how starmer reacts... If he's genuine about tackling the problem head on not only will he want to ensure the internal report is acted on but you would have thought he would want to ensure it goes to the ehrc to ensure there isn't a whiff of a cover up
Wonder if the antisemites will leave of their own accord or wait for the inevitable purgetacular tar and feathering that's coming their way
Nandy excellent on Marr this morning, I thought. Struck the right balance between supporting the government, as we all should in these circumstances, and also making suggestions for what more they should be doing, with no point-scoring or hindsight criticism. All simply and fluently put.
Think she will be given a lot of media exposure in the coming months because as you point out... She's pretty good at it
I wonder how the corbyn left might react if he starts purging the anti Semite element who appear most associated with them.
Operation smearstarmer will go into overdrive I suspect
how will the antisemites ever get out of *checks notes* withholding an internal report after they've surrendered the party
It's amazing seeing their brains short circuit when something doesn't fit the narrative.
@nickm and @sun_tzu - you do realise that one of the big takeaways from this report is that elements in the party opposed to Corbyn's leadership (and allied to the likes of Tom Watson) intentionally undermined the party's ability to boot out anti-semites? We already knew that there were issues with anti-Semitism in parts of the left, those are the majority of the cases currently being dealt with and the report addresses this, with apparently half a dozen pages on Chris Williamson's anti-Semitism alone. What we didn't have evidenced until now is the anti-Semitism amongst elements of the party hostile to Corbyn, who intentionally sabotaged the disciplinary process to undermine him. Prioritising factional point scoring over the safety of Jewish members is antisemitic regardless of which faction within the party is doing it. The reason the report appears to be being buried is that it challenges the assertion that issues with the disciplinary processes lay solely at the door of Corbyn and his leadership and can therefore be easily moved on from now he's gone.
And for the record, most on the left (barring a vocal minority of cranks) are perfectly happy to see leftist antisemites like Williamson gone. One of the reasons this report has to come out in full is because at the moment people like Williamson are using the headline takeaways about factional meddling that as 'evidence' that their expulsions were un-just.
And for the record, most on the left (barring a vocal minority of cranks) are perfectly happy to see leftist antisemites like Williamson gone. One of the reasons this report has to come out in full is because at the moment people like Williamson are using the headline takeaways about factional meddling that as 'evidence' that their expulsions were un-just.
Hi, I'm a centrist, there's a lot of words there but I'm going to assume you just said "ohhh jeremy antisemite", good job sir. Racism is solved.
It's pretty obvious that people who defend supporters of the holocuast as being "of their time" don't have too strong a relationship with common sense.
How refreshing was that? It shouldn't take a global crisis for that to happen but regardless, it was good to see.
The anti-Semitism thing is a good example of the mainstream media being nothing more than the mouthpiece of the party in power.
Absolutely feck all was said about Boris's Islamophobic comments in comparison.
People who sided with the Tories because of anti-Semitism basically just chose the guy whose racism they agreed with more. Nothing more nothing less.
Likewise if Labour had been in power it would have splashed all over the papers while Corbyns anti Semitism would have been hushed up.
This virus should really expose our media for what it is, a propaganda machine for the government.
Absolutely feck all was said about Boris's Islamophobic comments in comparison.
People who sided with the Tories because of anti-Semitism basically just chose the guy whose racism they agreed with more. Nothing more nothing less.
Likewise if Labour had been in power it would have splashed all over the papers while Corbyns anti Semitism would have been hushed up.
This virus should really expose our media for what it is, a propaganda machine for the government.
What were her suggestions?
She called calmly for recall of parliament and pointed out why we needed an interim foreign secretary whilst Raab was elsewhere. Watch it, say what you think.
I agree, nothing should be withheld from the investigation regardless of where any blame lies. I think it's quite likely the whole thing was a clusterfeck and anyone who is proven to have acted in ways that could have undermined the safety of members, whether through incompetence or malice, needs kicking out (particularly whoever is shown to have said someone needs to die in a fire). The only way this can be moved on from is exposing the whole thing to sunlight, and having zero tolerance for anyone found wanting on either side.
What? The government has acted so poorly that we will probably have the highest per capita death rate in Europe despite a younger population than e.g Italy.
During a crisis: now isn’t the time criticise
After a crisis: now isn’t the time to dwell on mistakes and apportion blame
yes - (or at least according to the bits "sources close to" formby released)
But nothing should be held back from the EHRC and ANYBODY found to have acted inappropriately should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law IMO
Starmer needs to get rid of all of them ASAP - they clearly have the info available internally - the purge should start today and I repeat ANYBODY who engaged in racist behavior should be gone woth the dossier given to the EHRC and the police
If starmer does not demand it goes to the EHRC and does not act on the info ASAP then he should go as well - zero racists in the party and zero tolerance for them should be the minimum we can expect
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You kind of made the bolded bit up though, didn't you?
But yes, the first thing the opposition should do at the moment is support the government policy of semi-lockdown and social distancing. Add suggestions of how to improve things, and practical criticism as well of course, but if all the opposition does is criticise then their message is 'ignore the government, ignore the restrictions'. I think some of Labour leaders get this, fortunately.
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