they're also not going to appeal to anyone to the right of ed milliband, it's just one big experiment in appealing, specifically, to ed milliband and his love of big concrete slabs
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
So they're right to play a straight bat to it and not get diverted and at the same time are right to fully get behind the diversion.
Yeah, I'm left wing as feck but I didn't get the memo that we were supposed to be cool with people smashing up war memorials now.
Give us an alternate version of this that doesn't include the tabloids blaring the headline 'Labour refuse to respect the memory of Britain's FALLEN SOLDIERS!'.
if this is the game i don't wanna play tbh
Dobba is not for turning.
"There is already a law against criminal damage so I don't see the point in wasting Parliamentary time, that we don't have enough of anyway - given the current crisis the country faces, when the existing one suffices. Conducting politics for and via newspaper headlines should be above this country."
Admittedly that's asking a lot from a guy who couldn't call racists racist yesterday, because he's got an LBC show to think about. Probably got more chance of him opening his stint at the next PMQs by reciting the Major's cricket 'joke' from Fawlty Towers.
No, but unfortunately Starmer has to play it. Thankfully he’s smart enough to know when traps are being laid out in front of him.
Ah the Corbyn approach. Yeah that worked out well for us last time.
So bollocks to facts, yes to chasing Daily Mail headlines and campaigns. Forensic as feck.
Bet you can't believe how cheap membership is when you're getting all this in return.
Pretty much. This all stems from Labour thinking homeowner Kevin age 70 is working class because he has a northern accent.
The Tory have one of the worse satisfaction rates on the covid crisis and yet they are still polling at around 40%. Even after the Cummings story they were still the most popular party. .
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Also I'm not sure it's a liberal (Let alone a left)position to think people should go to jail because they spray painted the cenotaph.
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For fecks sake, we’ve had a decade of these Tory cnuts doing their damnest to turn the U.K. into an absolute shithole, and we’re STILL having fecking conversations about whether Labour is ideologically pure enough.
Seriously?! Is it really too much to fecking ask that we accept the good instead of demanding the perfect, and maybe all get on side to get a left leaning government back into power before these Tory twats manage to ruin the country beyond total repair?
If it’s spray paint then give them community service. If they’re smashing war memorials then yes they deserve jail time. Last I checked the people whose memories are being memorialized are predominantly working class.
*applauds*
yes it is, the people who actively fought to stop a left wing party winning in 2017 are still employed by the labour party
like, i don't understand why you expect anyone on the left wing on the party to just roll over when they're still fecking there and clearly running a gradual rightward turn of the party
What wrong have they done by spray painting something like the cenotaph ? Like I'm genuinely interested why it should even warrant something community service ? Same for if someone or a group smashed up it tbh(As long as no one was physically hurt), the state can just repair it again.
Also I'm not sure it being memorialized by predominantly working class names really means anything.
When the state is actively signaling new ways to put people in jail, we should be be concerned.
maybe cause that’s exactly what the left of the party did when they tried to systematically evict and ostracize those on the right of the party out? We continued to vote labour despite the left of the party telling us to go elsewhere.
I agree with @Kentonio
Cause repairing it again incurs a cost from the state. It seems right that the perpetrator(s) pay that cost either through fines or unpaid work.
We're not going to get a left leaning government, the Labour higher ups hated having a left leaning party so much they purposely sabotaged it. Sir Keir's Labour Party offers absolutely nothing, because he's even more petrified of the tabloid headlines than you are.
What a hilarious rewriting of history.So you're saying people should be allowed to deface public property without consequence?
Which ones are still there?
this never happened, the labour party was performing trot hunts while crying out about stalinist purges, this is pure fantasy and is not based on reality
you might have, a lot of people who post in this thread chose to vote for other parties and that's fine, but let's not pretend that things like posting snarkily on forums is equivalent to paid professionals sabotaging the party and facing no consequences. and going elsewhere is a legitimate political tool, if your local labour candidate is a cnut you don't have to vote for them, same goes for if the parties platform isn't for you
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You couldn't move for media friendly 'Labour' faces telling everyone they were not going to vote for Labour in the last two elections. For the last one, the 45 Minute Man even went on the BBC to tell people he voted Lib Dem, in case their viewers hadn't seen his tweets canvassing for and endorsing their candidates, because of them 'sitting on the fence re: Brexit'. He's been pretty quiet regarding Sir Keir's fence sitting on the transition period extension, but I'm sure there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for that.
Some random twat on a Man United forum saying they won't be voting for Sir Keir's Labour, whilst he lapdances to the Mail and co's tune? fecking hell, gloves are off.
Some random twat on a Man United forum saying they won't be voting for Sir Keir's Labour, whilst he lapdances to the Mail and co's tune? fecking hell, gloves are off.
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I would say the costs of potentially repairing due to vandalism would fall under the risks of having war memorials in the first place. Far better that society collectively pays that potential risk than give the state the power to force unpaid work on citizens.
I'm not expecting Labour to make these arguments btw but more that I don't think potential jail time for vandalizing war memorials is a certain left position.
Don't be stupid.... Not all public property. Just public property that he has a personal issue with!
Well I don’t think jail time is warranted but if you break or vandalise something you should expect to pay for it. Don’t forget the state and the judiciary are separate.
Tough shit, the Tories do and Sir Keir (with Labour voters approval) is too petrified to say something that the Mail and LBC's listeners won't like.
Of course! My apologies.
They can put it as the maximum sentence, the likelihood is district judges and magistrates will never use it.
Let's hope so, because it'll be getting no opposition until then.
Were the leaks from Corbyn's entire tenure?
In either case, the straightforward hypothesis (based on those leaks and reporting from "disgruntled anonymous sources" during Corbyn) would be that everybody in the party hierarchy outside the sliver of left-wing MPs hates the left. The alternative is that somehow the most reactionary faction un-representative of the rest had institutional power and were driving news coverage.
In terms of the people actually named in the report that you could say "actively fought to stop a left wing party winning in 2017", as far as I know none still work for the party and haven't since McNicol went. The Corbyn wing basically had control of the party by 2019 up to and including the NEC and General Secretary, which is how it got the manifesto it really wanted for that election. And the General Secretary controls HQ (hence Formby using them to put together this particular report).
As it happens, I'm pretty sure Starmer will use whatever comes out of EHRC and the report on this report (classic Labour) to have basically a scorched earth policy on both factions.
Perhaps you’re in a very small minority who thinks that a memorial to dead soldiers is somehow a hugely controversial risk that people should be allowed to just piss on at will?
They’re there to remember normal working people who were marched off to foreign lands often against their will and butchered often for stupid, idiotic reasons. The memorials aren’t there to celebrate those stupid reasons, they’re there to remember the cost that was paid, and hopefully make the stupid bastards who give the orders think twice before doing it again.
I'm against people pissing outside for number of reasons tbh. Would I want someone to vandalize the cenotaph well no but if someone did(Like with the Blm paint spray)then I don't think the answer is jail time or unpaid labour.
Well yeah it's a nice statue but its been up since 1920 and I've yet to see a prime minister think twice before going to war.
Be nice if it did though but the world is a sort of awful place.
Looks like Starmer’s resurrecting the Miliband approach. That worked out well for us.
It’s funny how the idea you’d get from the press and from many on here is that Labour was not losing votes and on a downwards trend under Blair, Brown and Miliband and was merrily bullying the Tories at the polls until the aberrational disaster that is radical leftie Corbyn came along. Therefore all Starmer needs to do is dial back the clock to a time before Corbynism and everything is fine again, and anyone questioning the wisdom of this needs to shut up and remember 2019 (but not 2010, 2015 and definitely not 2017, and also forget Starmer’s own hand in the 2019 disaster).
It is possible that people can question Starmer on an ideological basis or point of principle as well as the wisdom of his approach from an electoral perspective.
I look forward to you all doing this again in 6 weeks time.
Even they would find 10 years a bit harsh.
Seen a lot of people clamouring for new wars recently? I seem to remember a million or so people coming out on the streets against Iraq. Bit of a difference to WW1 when the public were war hungry and women were handing out white feathers to anyone who didn’t sign up to fight for king and country.
War memorials don’t stop wars, but they do remind people all over that when wars come it’s not just some stranger who dies, it’s the people from your town or village or neighbourhood who leave and don’t return. That isn’t always enough to stop politicians being cnuts, but it does help prevent the public from being swept up by the propaganda.
Straight after wars they’re needed as a way for families to handle their loss, and later they’re needed to fill in people’s memory of why war is a shitty idea in the first place. Anyone who is defacing war memorials with some idea in their mind that they’re protesting against the system is deeply misguided.
Remind me what version of Labour last won a majority?