Keir Starmer Labour Leader

[Spark]

He knows that he secured the anti-Tory vote long ago, now he’s doing everything he can to win back red wall/Brexit voters.

What else can you do at this point? A vote for anyone other than the biggest non-Tory party in your constituency is a vote for the Torys.

Agree with the logic, but it’s painfully obvious that when he does come to power he’ll then follow through on his Tory lite policies because of the same “we won these people, we can’t lose them again” logic.

Honestly think if Labour were to grow a pair and have actual significant policies or at the least back the strikers to side with working people beyond just saying “working people” ad nauseam then they’d realise that they’d still command a lead.

After all we were told for ages that Corbyn was the issue and that his policies were backed by the majority. With Kier pumping the polls there is room to gamble with actually progressive policies.

Basically Starmer = Southgate.

 

[phelans shorts]

He knows that he secured the anti-Tory vote long ago, now he’s doing everything he can to win back red wall/Brexit voters.

What else can you do at this point? A vote for anyone other than the biggest non-Tory party in your constituency is a vote for the Torys.

But this gives Sunak or whoever the hell is in charge when it comes time the easiest line of attack ever. “If you lie to your own membership *points to countless cases* then how can the public trust you?” and there’s legitimately no comeback for him.

He’s totally clueless and it’ll probably cost the entire country. Again.

 

[Dan_F]

Agree with the logic, but it’s painfully obvious that when he does come to power he’ll then follow through on his Tory lite policies because of the same “we won these people, we can’t lose them again” logic.

Honestly think if Labour were to grow a pair and have actual significant policies or at the least back the strikers to side with working people beyond just saying “working people” ad nauseam then they’d realise that they’d still command a lead.

After all we were told for ages that Corbyn was the issue and that his policies were backed by the majority. With Kier pumping the polls there is room to gamble with actually progressive policies.

Basically Starmer = Southgate.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m completely with you. I’m assuming it has to be better than another Tory PM, but he’s nowhere near left enough for me.

But this gives Sunak or whoever the hell is in charge when it comes time the easiest line of attack ever. “If you lie to your own membership *points to countless cases* then how can the public trust you?” and there’s legitimately no comeback for him.

He’s totally clueless and it’ll probably cost the entire country. Again.

Such an easy line to rebuff though after all the Tory lies. Take your pick on the best angle of attack, probably the lies over party gate while the rest of the country was in lock down.

 

[RedSky]

Basically Starmer = Southgate.

Nailed it.

 

[phelans shorts]

Such an easy line to rebuff though after all the Tory lies. Take your pick on the best angle of attack, probably the lies over party gate while the rest of the country was in lock down.

It’s also very easy to see what the rebuttal will be, “that wasn’t me, what am I supposed to do about it, I resigned over it!” So again, how can Starmer respond to that? Plus there’s the whole curry nonsense with Starmer if he decides to go heavy on the party.

Starmer’s “clever tactic” is a house of cards that doesn’t stand to any scrutiny.

 

[Jippy]

Agree with the logic, but it’s painfully obvious that when he does come to power he’ll then follow through on his Tory lite policies because of the same “we won these people, we can’t lose them again” logic.

Honestly think if Labour were to grow a pair and have actual significant policies or at the least back the strikers to side with working people beyond just saying “working people” ad nauseam then they’d realise that they’d still command a lead.

After all we were told for ages that Corbyn was the issue and that his policies were backed by the majority. With Kier pumping the polls there is room to gamble with actually progressive policies.

Basically Starmer = Southgate.

I think that's a trickier call than is being made out. A lot of the country don't support strikes, eg train drivers get £60k for nothing, teachers get months of holidays, fire brigade work part-time, doctors/barristers earn loads, gold-plated pensions etc...Maybe nurses, perhaps.

I don't begrudge most public sector workers a decent pay rise, but 10% each for millions of workers will cost a bomb. Inflation should recede in the next few months too. Maybe a lower pay rise could be boosted by a one off payout.

 

[Sweet Square]

I think that's a trickier call than is being made out. A lot of the country don't support strikes, eg train drivers get £60k for nothing, teachers get months of holidays, fire brigade work part-time, doctors/barristers earn loads, gold-plated pensions etc...Maybe nurses, perhaps.

Polling shows that it’s pretty close with against and support for strikes(The nurses strike is currently more popular than RMT plans for a winter strike).

Still it’s kind of meaningless conversation as polling isn’t the reason Starmer hasn’t backed workers. The Starmer project is all about making the Labour party a acceptable 2nd choice for British capital(Although it’s also worth saying Starmer personal politics are quite right wing and authoritarian).

 

[Sweet Square]

 

[esmufc07]

 

[CassiusClaymore]

Feeling increasingly dirty at the prospect of having to vote for this lot.

 

[stw2022]

The hard left will never forgive him if he got the Tories out. As the prospect gets more likely the attacks become more venomous

They've only ever been comfortable with a reassuring reality of a leader that they know isn't going to win. Foot and Corbyn. Every other Labour leader, especially the ones that won, are the devil encarnate

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Feeling increasingly dirty at the prospect of having to vote for this lot.

I can't do it.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

The hard left will never forgive him if he got the Tories out. As the prospect gets more likely the attacks become more venomous

They've only ever been comfortable with a reassuring reality of a leader that they know isn't going to win. Foot and Corbyn. Every other Labour leader, especially the ones that won, are the devil encarnate

Tosh. It's like someone regurgitated Daily Mail truthless bile into the thread.

I'd point out that your definition of hard left is probably only social democracy, which is successful in many other European countries, but I suspect it would fall on deaf ears.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

The hard left will never forgive him if he got the Tories out. As the prospect gets more likely the attacks become more venomous

They've only ever been comfortable with a reassuring reality of a leader that they know isn't going to win. Foot and Corbyn. Every other Labour leader, especially the ones that won, are the devil encarnate

The hard left for wanting people to be paid a wage they can live on. What a time to be alive.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

I can't do it.

Don't blame you. Had a few friends say the same and the "anything to get these criminals out' line is becoming an increasingly hard sell.

 

[Maticmaker]

The hard left will never forgive him if he got the Tories out. As the prospect gets more likely the attacks become more venomous

They've only ever been comfortable with a reassuring reality of a leader that they know isn't going to win. Foot and Corbyn. Every other Labour leader, especially the ones that won, are the devil encarnate

... history shows that nothing pushes the actual and potential Labour voting masses over to the right more than an out and out left wing cadre leadership that handed to the Tories a massive majority at the previous GE.

 

[Pexbo]

Kier Starmer is David Cameron’s greatest achievement.

 

[altodevil]

Kier Starmer is David Cameron’s greatest achievement.

Oh wow, I had no idea that David Cameron's greatest achievement was spelling "Keir" with an "ie". Truly a ground-breaking accomplishment that will go down in history. I'm sure the people of England will be forever grateful to Cameron for this brilliant feat of spelling prowess.

 

[Pexbo]

Oh wow, I had no idea that David Cameron's greatest achievement was spelling "Keir" with an "ie". Truly a ground-breaking accomplishment that will go down in history. I'm sure the people of England will be forever grateful to Cameron for this brilliant feat of spelling prowess.

I before E, except after C.

Im not the one in the wrong here. Kier is.

 

[The Corinthian]

Oh wow, I had no idea that David Cameron's greatest achievement was spelling "Keir" with an "ie". Truly a ground-breaking accomplishment that will go down in history. I'm sure the people of England will be forever grateful to Cameron for this brilliant feat of spelling prowess.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

... history shows that nothing pushes the actual and potential Labour voting masses over to the right more than an out and out left wing cadre leadership that handed to the Tories a massive majority at the previous GE.

Well done on totally ignoring the impact of a Brexit General Election.

 

[Sweet Square]

Also less than 2 months ago

 

[Sweet Square]

Kier Starmer is David Cameron’s greatest achievement.

Starmer and Reeves were speaking to an audience of business leaders at Canary Wharf as part of the party’s “prawn cocktail offensive 2.0”, which is seeking to repeat Tony Blair’s success in persuading business leaders to back Labour.

The event on Thursday included speeches by Amanda Blanc, the chief executive of Aviva, and Ian Stuart, the chief executive of HSBC UK. Jim O’Neill, the former Goldman Sachs banker and Treasury minister under David Cameron, also spoke, having helped formulate the party’s policies towards startups.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ng-to-promise-repeal-of-tory-anti-strike-laws

 

[Sweet Square]

The shadow home secretary said she wanted to resurrect a system Labour operated while in government, in which the Home Office prioritised claims from certain countries and processed them within days.


That scheme was abandoned however after judges ruled it was “structurally unfair”, with about 99% of claims being refused almost immediately.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...um-cases-from-safe-countries-to-clear-backlog

 

[Maticmaker]

Perhaps Labour hope to get it right next time?

 

[Maticmaker]

Well done on totally ignoring the impact of a Brexit General Election.

Funny I always assumed you thought Brexit was as far right as you could get?

 

[Sweet Square]

Perhaps Labour hope to get it right next time?

Unless I’ve missed it, Cooper hasn’t highlighted the faults of the last system. So I’m doubtful it will be any different.

Imo it’s another move to the right regardless of the actual outcomes.

 

[Maticmaker]

Unless I’ve missed it, Cooper hasn’t highlighted the faults of the last system. So I’m doubtful it will be any different.

Imo it’s another move to the right regardless of the actual outcomes.

Or.... just perhaps another example of our politicians 'learning nothing from history'?

Also it doesn't bode well for Labour's shadow home secretary getting the job full time if Labour win the next GE. It would seem that Starmer needs to be on 'idiot alert' with some of his shadow cabinet's utterances.

 

[Sweet Square]

Or.... just perhaps another example of our politicians 'learning nothing from history'?

Yeah fair. The current Labour Party is a New Labour tribute act while ignoring all the negatives things that happened during 97 to 2010.

 

[Maticmaker]

Yeah fair. The current Labour Party is a New Labour tribute act while ignoring all the negatives things that happened during 97 to 2010.

Yes, back to what I was saying earlier... maybe Labour are hoping to get it right this time!
If you are having a go at being a tribute act then Starmer needs to get the line-up in the shadow cabinet right... with people who engage their brain before speaking. You would assume that normally Cooper could be relied on in such matters... but!

 

[Smores]

Kier Starmer is David Cameron’s greatest achievement.

Keir Starmer is David Cameron.

I'll only vote for Labour if in the GE campaign they promise significant policy on dealing with Climate Change. If it falls short of my expectations I won't be voting for them.

A vote between Sunak and Starmer is basically just voting in a Tory leadership election. All that talk of wiping out the Tories isn't worth shit if you basically become them.

 

[horsechoker]

He knows that he secured the anti-Tory vote long ago, now he’s doing everything he can to win back red wall/Brexit voters.

What else can you do at this point? A vote for anyone other than the biggest non-Tory party in your constituency is a vote for the Torys.

It largely depends on your constituency, in some Labour may not have a hope in hell of winning so you can hedge your bets on another party which could lower the tories total number of seats in Parliament or vote Labour and just be a statistic.

I don't begrudge people who don't vote in areas where a particular party always wins by a landslide.

 

[Dan_F]

It largely depends on your constituency, in some Labour may not have a hope in hell of winning so you can hedge your bets on another party which could lower the tories total number of seats in Parliament or vote Labour and just be a statistic.

I don't begrudge people who don't vote in areas where a particular party always wins by a landslide.

Every constituency I’ve lived in has been Lib Dem or Tory, so I’ve never voted Labour (in generals). I voted green in whatever the general was after the Lib Dem/Tory coalition and after that I decided I’d have to vote tactically against the Torys from then onwards.

 

[Sweet Square]

Already slagging off unions.

 

[Semper Fudge]

Wes Streeting is just awful.

 

[Drifter]

Both parties softening up the public for further privatization of the NHS.

A taste of what's to come.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Funny I always assumed you thought Brexit was as far right as you could get?

Why would you assume I thought that?

There were some socialist arguments for brexit too. But they got totally drowned out by the media coverage and brexit campaign which was more far right wing.

Regardless, that general election was unique in that is was heavily influenced by the uncertain Brexit situation and Brexit policy.

 

[F-Red]

Both parties softening up the public for further privatization of the NHS.

A taste of what's to come.

Is that not just a supply/demand issue? Price has gone up as there's raw material shortages linked to lockdowns in the Far East.

 

[Maticmaker]

Why would you assume I thought that?

There were some socialist arguments for brexit too. But they got totally drowned out by the media coverage and brexit campaign which was more far right wing.

Regardless, that general election was unique in that is was heavily influenced by the uncertain Brexit situation and Brexit policy.

Sorry if I picked upon the wrong vibe.

Yes of course Brexit had an influence on the GE, but with a number of Labour supporters who did vote for Brexit, its been my experience it was more to do with Labours' ignoring of its heartlands for years, Brexit was the last straw. Boris's 'leveling up' mantra was what swayed it for many, who I suspect held their noses when they voted.

Certainly in my (growing increasingly smaller) circle of friends, many who like me had left Labour years ago because of its fixation on inner cities/displaying its international socialist credentials, its was well... 'OK lets see if the Tories really can/will do what Labour should have been doing for years'. I think many now know the answer to that, of course Covid and the war in the Ukraine will do the 'heavy lifting' in terms of the excuses to be trotted out.

 

[Sweet Square]