We have no progressive party on this island.
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
We have no progressive party on this island.
Yeah, I am sure the Tories are talking about the massive tax increases on the poorest, complaining about not taxing the energy companies, complaining about not ending non dom status or highlighting cost of living issues.
Got to feel for the labour members who voted for Corbyn in 2015 and have now ended up voting for the Spector politician of the year in 2022.
True, momentum hate anything faintly electable.
Got to feel for the labour members who voted for Corbyn in 2015 and have now ended up voting for the Spector politician of the year in 2022.
During the leadership race former Momentum national coordinator Laura Parker(Along with other former members) backed Starmer - https://labourlist.org/2020/02/laura-parker-why-im-backing-keir-starmer-for-labour-leader/?amp
Anyways here’s this cool Soviet song
Well it’s good anti semitism in the Labour Party isn’t a thing anymore……
Well it’s good anti semitism in the Labour Party isn’t a thing anymore……
Clearly this shows Starmer wants a closer relationship with the EU.
This will end well.
It feels like he's massively stepping up in supporting the Tories during their hard times. Respect.
Honestly his ability to just lie and contradict himself is almost up there with the “best”
Tbh to Starmer, he is betting the remain voting base is like himself, in that they only seem to care about all things EU as way to undermine left wing policy.
That's probably quite optimistic.
I reckon he is hoping the entire left/centre left think he is posturing to get elected and some kind of new progressive Starmer we have no evidence for will come into existence after an election victory.
If Labour win and push through PR they will have met my minimum expectations. Plus that could ensure a progressive majority going forward. Which guarantees he won't do it, doesn't it?
Yeah your probably correct here. I honestly don’t get the people who believe this stuff though. I guess it’s just hope in the end but even if it was true, pretending to be right wing in order to trick the general public and to then push through progressive policies would be a awful form of politics to support.
But still all the evidence so far points to the fact the Labour Party under Starmer is even further to the right than say the Miliband years.
Oh I would be amazed if any section of the party wanted electoral reform as it undermines a core message of the party - If you don’t vote Labour than you are letting the tories win.
Tbh we saw a mini version of this under the Corbyn years when the left tried to make the party more democratic but this undermined the powers the unions have in the party, so in the end it failed.
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I think they'll do "something" about the House of Lords because Brown already has a policy drawn up for him and he can call it electoral reform without too much actually changing. No chance of them plumping for proper PR though I fear.
In 2019, when the UK and his party is divided on Brexit, he pushes through a strong anti-Brexit stance and it gets crushed.
Now when country and party are much more skeptical of Brexit, he pushes... more Brexit.
Just don't understand what he's doing.
He's purging the Labour party and offering Tory policies.
He doesn't want people talking about Brexit when they can focus on his other core policy commitments.
Oh wait, he doesn't have any...
Having thought about it, I think Starmer is right to be cautious on Brexit and I say that as a remainer.
He can't say he'd rejoin, because (a) it's not up to us, the EU has no reason to trust us or want us back (b) it's not the right time to open that can of worms, can you imagine the arguments all over again (c) Britain needs to learn to deal with the consequences of Brexit s so if we do return to Europe, we will properly value it and be prepared to live with the tradeoffs it would involve (d) there is no such thing as a 'Swiss style deal' anyway, so don't engage with it.
You have to accept the Brexit settlement at some level, while seeking to improve the deal we have where we can, if we can, but we have a long way to go before we can even get into that discussion with the EU. There's a lot of groundwork to be done. We need to EU to trust us again, for starters. All he can realistically say is he'd seek better relations with the EU at this point and look for some easy wins.
He can't say he'd rejoin, because (a) it's not up to us, the EU has no reason to trust us or want us back (b) it's not the right time to open that can of worms, can you imagine the arguments all over again (c) Britain needs to learn to deal with the consequences of Brexit s so if we do return to Europe, we will properly value it and be prepared to live with the tradeoffs it would involve (d) there is no such thing as a 'Swiss style deal' anyway, so don't engage with it.
You have to accept the Brexit settlement at some level, while seeking to improve the deal we have where we can, if we can, but we have a long way to go before we can even get into that discussion with the EU. There's a lot of groundwork to be done. We need to EU to trust us again, for starters. All he can realistically say is he'd seek better relations with the EU at this point and look for some easy wins.
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More likely it is because being Prime Ministerial means doing stuff like that. He is actually now the PM in waiting and he shouldn't be making unforced mistakes like snubbing invites from influential power brokers.
Aka - appealing to the right - because that’s how you get elected.
From that article nothing has changed in the UK. Neither the UK politicians nor journalists understand what has been voted for with Brexit or that it is nowhere near completed and what is still to come. They still don't understand that being in the SM and CU means being in the EU (without a vote) and there is no Swiss deal on the table. The NIP will work fine if implemented properly. A few minor tweaks could help if the UK could be trusted.
Question to ask Starmer is whether he's going to go along with the Tories who are dragging the UK further away from the EU to make it more impossible to join in the future.
If he does get into power will he reverse things that the Tories have done regarding divergence from EU standards.
Most importantly how does he intend to "Make Brexit Work" with no Customs Union (Without which the paper work does not go away) or Freedom of movement.
If skills is his only focus - having highly skilled cleaners, factory workers and other people who do menial jobs earning very large salaries, to which country is he going to sell his highly priced products?
From first coming across him in 2016 - my opinion hasn't changed. He's completely clueless about the EU and Brexit.
Question to ask Starmer is whether he's going to go along with the Tories who are dragging the UK further away from the EU to make it more impossible to join in the future.
If he does get into power will he reverse things that the Tories have done regarding divergence from EU standards.
Most importantly how does he intend to "Make Brexit Work" with no Customs Union (Without which the paper work does not go away) or Freedom of movement.
If skills is his only focus - having highly skilled cleaners, factory workers and other people who do menial jobs earning very large salaries, to which country is he going to sell his highly priced products?
From first coming across him in 2016 - my opinion hasn't changed. He's completely clueless about the EU and Brexit.
I have only ever voted Labour. I contributed (and hopefully helped) in two different constituencies in 2017, and three in 2019, which wasn't fun, despite my personal doubts of Corbyn.
I feel so much more depressed now. Which is bizarre, and I don't know if that is logical, but I do.
In many ways, I actually understand much more why Blair was so conservative in 1997 and during his first term. The economy was going well, Labour had never won two full terms in office and that was the aim above all else - to win the next election.
He could have gone so much further and done so much more, but I do understand why he didn't. Attlee was reduced from a 145 majority to a majority of 5 in one term. He didn't want to repeat that. But he had a whole host of policies years before the 1997 election, and a full manifesto by 1996.
As you said, what is Labour's vision? Blair and Brown had one, no matter how much we can criticise and pick it apart. What exactly are Labour going to do? This country is falling apart, and they are offering ... what? I still think the Tories will get back in.
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Starmer makes Brown look like a true visionary.
We have no progressive party on this island.
Because we don't have enough progressive people on this island.
Well no you characterised it as being "nothing more" than him wanting to damage his reputation with the left by wanting to appeal to the right. I'm saying him "wanting" to damage his rep with the left had little to do with it.
No you’ve misunderstood my post. The method of damaging his reputation with the left is what I think the Spectator’s intentions were rather than Starmer’s. They know he’s doing well with the centre, they want to make sure it’s not an absolute rout and the left becomes apathetic towards him.
true that
I mean, of course. Why not? Why not.
The most ludicrous part of this is that once you elect the Lords, realistically no one will ever be able to change that. So here is a constitutional reform which Tom Paine wanted that somehow Starmer's Labour doesn't fancy anymore?
Yeah it would take a political crisis and actual determination to get rid of the lords. Like all things Starmer, the pledge was something to win over membership and nothing more.
He clearly hasn't read the part of the 'Prime Minister for Dummies' book which says you should not U-turn on everything before the election. You need policies to run on, and then after you win the General Election you get to spend the first couple of weeks explaining why they are no longer possible.
I’ve always had the impression that people with Starmer politics actual enjoy the process of U-turning. But as you said normally everyone waits into they are in power(Biden last week saying he is pro union while also at the same time passing a bill to break a strike).
Poor Starmer can’t seem to help himself. If the tories do wait out the full 2 years before a election, it will be interesting to see why Labour are in 2024(This move to the right by the party is only going to continue)
He knows that he secured the anti-Tory vote long ago, now he’s doing everything he can to win back red wall/Brexit voters.
What else can you do at this point? A vote for anyone other than the biggest non-Tory party in your constituency is a vote for the Torys.
What else can you do at this point? A vote for anyone other than the biggest non-Tory party in your constituency is a vote for the Torys.
Inspiring.
This.