Keir Starmer Labour Leader

TheGame said:
Sunak can’t even beat Truss. For me this pandering to Brexit voters from Labour has to stop, it’s just stupid. Joining the single market should be the obvious solution.
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That's not confirmed yet and if Truss does become leader its because of the far right, old boys club, Tory members, not the electorate. Still wouldn't be enough to make me vote for the empty vacuum of lies that is Starmer.

Joining the single market would just cause more division in the country. Its not going to be feasible for at least 10-20 years and even then it would be unlikely.
 


It’s funny that they think people will believe this but also that it’s somehow not as shitty as booting someone for supporting striking workers.
 
neverdie said:
by itself you'd almost ignore it but in the context of the new anti-union laws passed by government this is a massive feck you to the unions and pretty much every worker in the country. i'd say starmer is finished now or should be.

i don't want to hear the economic policy of someone who's so blatantly anti union. what's the point? and it's not just perception or pr. there are ways he could address this that would've looked fine. this is his intent going forward. back to zero difference between labour and the tories.
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Unions have been eviscerated, yet everyone is acting as if we are in the 1970s still.

The issue is that the unions have too little power: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ion-membership-has-cost-uk-workers-100-a-week

The analysis by the Resolution Foundation and the London School of Economics found that the balance of power has shifted decisively toward employers, with wages marked down by as much as 25% as a result.

“Within one generation, the UK has gone from a country with high union density and centralized bargaining, to one of weak unions and decentralized bargaining,” said Pawel Bukowski, a research fellow at the LSE’s Centre for Economic Performance. “This contributed to sluggish real wage growth and growing wage inequality.”
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But the answer is apparently more restrictions to what unions can do and how much they can help people. This is consenting to the Tories batshit ideas by silence.
 
Sweet Square said:


It’s funny that they think people will believe this but also that it’s somehow not as shitty as booting someone for supporting striking workers.
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It is worse than that. It is being scared to death of supporting working people trying to survive a cost of living crisis because they will be criticised by the Daily Mail and the Tories.
 
Frosty said:
Unions have been eviscerated, yet everyone is acting as if we are in the 1970s still.

The issue is that the unions have too little power: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ion-membership-has-cost-uk-workers-100-a-week



But the answer is apparently more restrictions to what unions can do and how much they can help people. This is consenting to the Tories batshit ideas by silence.
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that's exactly correct. attacks on the unions now are attempts to beat workers into submission. all workers have is collective bargaining power. the new law is designed to weaken that beyond the level it stands at now which is already weak. to do it by creating divisions between workers and keeping them isolated so "skilled" workers which just means "available" can break the line. and they'll do it because of precarity and because they have no ties with the people they're stepping over. if you're not against this kind of thing then you're not "labour".

remeber thatcher's slogan "labour isn't working"? that's correct now. except it means "labour isn't working [class]".
 
Frosty said:
It is worse than that. It is being scared to death of supporting working people trying to survive a cost of living crisis because they will be criticised by the Daily Mail and the Tories.
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Watching some of the RMT clips today and there’s a very clear disconnect between reality and the media(And also it seems the labour leadership).

Tbh looking at the attacks on the right to protest, what Truss has been saying about banning striking and now this move by the labour leadership. We could just be seeing a new consensus around how the British state tackles the ever growing crisis.
 
i agree. they should withdraw their funding and tell labour to get fecked. build a new party centred around workers' rights. it'll beat the libdems on its first outing.
 
I am so disappointed in him. I was a member for over 40 years and held multiple positions locally in the Party including local election agent and Borough camapign co-ordinator, District secretary etc.. It seems that over the last year virtually every statement and announcement is making me re-consider voting Labour again. After voting Green at the last election I had hoped to be able to return to the fold at the next general election - but I feel like I'm questioning my conscience every time I think about it. I'm afraid at the moment the negatives are far outweighing the positives for me. Sad, so bloody sad.
 
Sweet Square said:
Out of interest why did you vote green in the last election ?
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I was extermely disappointed with Labour's dogs dinner of a fudge over Brexit. It's long and complicated but I don't think the proposed 'compromise' pleased anyone - including me.
 
This is what happens when you have single representative districts and first past the post. If you were a true parliamentary democracy you would have one or several parties to the left of Labour who would pull them to the left to secure left-wing voters.
 
Erebus said:
I am so disappointed in him. I was a member for over 40 years and held multiple positions locally in the Party including local election agent and Borough camapign co-ordinator, District secretary etc.. It seems that over the last year virtually every statement and announcement is making me re-consider voting Labour again. After voting Green at the last election I had hoped to be able to return to the fold at the next general election - but I feel like I'm questioning my conscience every time I think about it. I'm afraid at the moment the negatives are far outweighing the positives for me. Sad, so bloody sad.
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You're a Labour supporter for 40 years and at the opportunity to vote for the most progressive left wing leader that the party has presented in that time, you voted Green?
 
sun_tzu said:
An anti European antisemitie is progressive?... to each their own
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Who is more progressive? Actually who are your top 5 progressive British politicians and why?

Or do you not really know what you're talking about and you're just repeating daily mail headlines like another poster suggested.
 
For anyone who is interested, since I mentioned internal Labour fights earlier in the day, here is a cracking Twitter thread about the resignation of Harold Wilson, including highlights of Tony Benn claiming that "the (Labour) Government is supported by right-wing forces in society" and Denis Healey telling Labour backbenchers to "Go and feck yourselves you feckers"

 
sun_tzu said:
An anti European antisemitie is progressive?... to each their own
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i thought you called him jezbollah or whatever. how can he be an anti semite and yet support semitic arab groups? or are you saying he's anti-jewish for which you must have some evidence or else you're just slandering him.
 
ThehatchetMan said:
Who is more progressive? Actually who are your top 5 progressive British politicians and why?

Or do you not really know what you're talking about and you're just repeating daily mail headlines like another poster suggested.
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Considering corbyn achieved nothing beyond 2 defeats I'd say its like shooting fish in a barrel to name people who actually achieved more in terms of progressive politics

Mcdonald
Atlee
Wilson
Blair
Brown
 
sun_tzu said:
An anti European antisemitie is progressive?... to each their own
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I think calling him anti European is very misleading. He was against the Capitalist leanings of the EU bloc and probably correctly felt it would be easier for a self governing UK to redistribute wealth. On the other hand, he supports international socialism and bringing people and countries together through it.
I think his final position on Brexit was that the final deal should be put to a public vote which, despite how he personally may have felt, could have halted it.
 
Reiver said:
I think calling him anti European is very misleading. He was against the Capitalist leanings of the EU bloc and probably correctly felt it would be easier for a self governing UK to redistribute wealth. On the other hand, he supports international socialism and bringing people and countries together through it.
I think his final position on Brexit was that the final deal should be put to a public vote which, despite how he personally may have felt, could have halted it.
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brexit-news-jeremy-corbyn-2006384.webp
 
The descriptions of the EU being bureaucratic is fair, as are the criticisms of the way Greece got shafted.

He should never have appointed Milne IMO who was responsible for many a feck up that Corbyn took the blame for.

And the criticism for running an ineffective referendum campaign makes it seem like he was responsible for Leave winning, which ignores the Tory fingerprints over the whole disaster from start to finish.

For me Corbyn was consistent in defending the positives of EU membership, especially the economic and social rights it gave. The Labour in campaign run was thoroughly insipid, partly because the Scottish electoral wipeout following Labour and Tory campaigning together to keep the Union spooked them, I think.
 
The TSSA rail union - whose picket line Mr Tarry joined - said it was "ashamed" of Labour.
General secretary Manuel Cortes said: "Whatever excuses the Labour Party makes about the reasons for Sam being sacked, the reality is that Sam has shown solidarity with his class and we applaud him for that. The Labour Party needs to wake up and smell the coffee.
"If they think can win the next general election while pushing away seven million trade union members, they are deluded.
"We expect attacks from the Tories, we don't expect attacks from our own party. As a Labour-affiliated union, our union is ashamed of the actions of the Labour Party leadership and the anti-worker anti-union message it is sending out.
"If Keir Starmer doesn't understand the basic concept of solidarity on which our movement has been built then he is not worthy of leading our party."
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Fluctuation0161 said:
That's not confirmed yet and if Truss does become leader its because of the far right, old boys club, Tory members, not the electorate. Still wouldn't be enough to make me vote for the empty vacuum of lies that is Starmer.

Joining the single market would just cause more division in the country. Its not going to be feasible for at least 10-20 years and even then it would be unlikely.
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You wouldn't vote for Starmer unless you lived in his constituency.

Therein lies the issue. Everyone seems to be pandering to these Brexit numpties so they don't get labelled with overturning the 'will of the people'. We can't dare call Brexit a disaster due to offending these idiots. Labour are doing the same. It's an endless pile of shite.
 
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The only reason Tarry went out there is because he is being deselected in his current seat and is trying to eye up another seat by affiliating himself with the unions.

Sacking him was a stupid thing to do though as it just brings more attention to the issue.
 
I ended my membership a few months ago because of the decisions he has made since becoming leader. I just felt myself disagreeing with pretty much everything he was doing and his dismantling of the left of the party. From the flag shagging to the removal of the whip for Corbyn and more, it just doesn't seem like a left wing socialist party any more.
 
Badunk said:
I ended my membership a few months ago because of the decisions he has made since becoming leader. I just felt myself disagreeing with pretty much everything he was doing and his dismantling of the left of the party. From the flag shagging to the removal of the whip for Corbyn and more, it just doesn't seem like a left wing socialist party any more.
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It's not going to get elected as a left wing socialist party, people are not going to vote for that due to the political system we are in. Tried that with Corbyn and in the 80s, didn't work. He needs to appeal to a broad spectrum of voters Labour did when they won successive elections in the late 90s / 00s. However the fudging around the elephant in the room around Brexit is stupid and appealing to immigration haters isn't the way to go.
 
TheGame said:
It's not going to get elected as a left wing socialist party, people are not going to vote for that due to the political system we are in. Tried that with Corbyn and in the 80s, didn't work. He needs to appeal to a broad spectrum of voters Labour did when they won successive elections in the late 90s / 00s. However the fudging around the elephant in the room around Brexit is stupid and appealing to immigration haters isn't the way to go.
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Totally agreed.
 
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