Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
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Don't think this has been posted yet
Either the answer is they can't spell or
Is Keir better than Kier and Keira ?
or is
Corbyn better than Corben or Corbin?
Nothing that says “woke’ is accurate tbh
Doesn't this help to buy scheme sound an awful lot like the right to buy scheme from the 80's? Essentially paying off another generation of voters but instead of the state receiving the fee for the houses, it's now private owners. Just because it's a good policy doesn't mean you should vote Tory.
Essentially The government will loan you part of a deposit but as an equity purchase in your property. Then interest is added on after 5 years so you either pay it or you could sell and walk away with a deposit.
Annoyingly the skipton building society just started 5% mortages.
As someone who grew up in poverty and cant get help from family and had an iva by the age of 22 i personally have found it useful to get on the property ladder.
The whole thing was blown out of proportion by someone who couldnt handle it being pointed out because they have a blind rhetoric that the tories have done nothing for affordable housing. My estate includes affordable and social housing in the development.
No its not a sole reason to vote tory but its a throwback to the days where you could have a rational discussion about politics and discuss pros and cons, rather than a shit slinging match where everyone who differs in opinion to you is a c**t. Its ultimately what people mean by woke now and the reason left politics is such a mess
They're a very well run party with good policies. Better run than at least one of the top two at the moment.
All of Labour's policies are the ones in the manifesto currently... I'm not defending Starmer because I think he's shit but they're the policies the Momentum lot on here backed and defended to the hilt during the last GE.
Such a weird hill to die on. You replied to my post about inequality and lack of affordable housing by saying you used a help to buy scheme to buy a house. You’ve just made up me saying that the Tory’s have done nothing.
Although for the most part, these schemes are not actually helping the people that use housing benefits, so your whole point made no sense.
Maybe my friends and I are exceptions to the rule, but of those of us who own houses three of us vote Labour and one votes Lib Dem. Of the Labour voters, two of us are reluctant voters and one is Corbyn/Momentum. I don't necessarily think owning property turns you conservative... some of us continue to prefer voting for the good of the whole.
Yeah, fair point actually.
So basically the left think they're too right-wing, the right think they're too left-wing and a load of people think the leader is shite? Classic Labour, really.
The more remarkable thing to me is that (on the conservatives) "voters said they voted for them because they had done a good job, had performed well during the pandemic, and that they like Boris Johnson".
Seems like the general public is the problem.
Yeah, I thought that as well. I live in a labour area and most people own homes here. I'm not sure that's a correlation that makes sense.
Where do the general public get their information from?
That's demonstrably not true, so the issue is the information.
one's relationship to property is a much better predictor of voting than one's AB/C1/C2/DE class designation.
The government was slow to respond locking down the country last year, particularly allowing flights from China and Italy. Since then, though, they've done well. The vaccine rollout has been very successful.
A free trade deal with the EU was put together within a year. I remember back in 2016 people here were saying it could take 10 years. Overall I'd say the conservatives are doing ok.
The sun, the mirror and whatever else rag. There’s a genuine disconnect between what people think the country is feeling and what it is actually feeling. Instead of pointless arguments more needs to be done on how to bridge that gap and what methods need to be developed to do that.
That is also caveated in the knowledge some people will not change. Some people are happy with the conservatives and always will be.
To be fair, mostly it's people taking the piss and joking around as is the norm on this forum. This isn't actually how people would actually speak to each other as strangers face to face. You are taking things far too seriously, but I'm not even sure you know what 'woke' means despite using it in virtually every post on here.
I knew someone would have a fact to disprove this
Nonetheless, it's not as simple as "home owner". I live in a constituency in Bristol which has been labour for years. Nowadays, the vast majority of people own their homes and it's now fairly middle class where previously it would have been working class and I can't see it turning from Labour. The majority has gone up over the last few years and was stable in the last election.
I knew someone would have a fact to disprove this
Nonetheless, it's not as simple as "home owner". I live in a constituency in Bristol which has been labour for years. Nowadays, the vast majority of people own their homes and it's now fairly middle class where previously it would have been working class and I can't see it turning from Labour. The majority has gone up over the last few years and was stable in the last election.
i don't think it's a one-to-one thing, the moment you buy you become tory, and that it happens to everyone, but in general it makes a lot of sense. over a long term and for a majority of people.
i've posted this a million times today, i don't think cameron was wrong here: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...e-labour-voters-nick-clegg-says-a7223796.html
they are all descendants of a PM that said this: "Economics is the method, the object is to change the soul."
Sounds similar to my friends. We finally managed to get mortgages well into our later 30s, and didn't suddenly decide to vote for the Tories. As inept as Labour have been in recent years, they still have a manifesto that I believe in, while the Tory party will always lead to the shafting of the poor.
It’d be interesting to see the age groupings in that
one's relationship to property is a much better predictor of voting than one's AB/C1/C2/DE class designation.
one's relationship to property is a much better predictor of voting than one's AB/C1/C2/DE class designation.
Is this not skewed because the likelihood of millennials owning property is lower than that of Gen X/boomers, who are more likely to be right wing to begin with? I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it's potentially somewhat coincidental because of that?
The vaccine rollout was indeed successful.
Their handling of the entire crisis up to that point was little short of a disaster though, as reflected in the relative death tolls. If the perception within the UK is that the government largely did well (bar one or two issues) then (as @Pexbo & @Balljy alluded to above) that speaks to a problem with the information people within the UK are being fed.
Because from an outside perspective, the UK government's response was a shit-show. And that perception is the one that's backed by the data.
They had the Mayor of
It‘s true as we stand now but I’m not sure that it’s the future epochal moment in British politics that some on the left seem to think it is.
The idea that homeownership is the key to economic security is largely based on the massive inflation in house prices that have occurred over the last two decades. The BoE have attributed this phenomenon to the massive fall in interest rates over the past 30 years or so i.e. the less you have to pay in interest the more you can put into outbidding your rival in the housing market. Now that interest rates have bottomed out that kind of inflation in property prices won’t happen again. If interest rates start to rise again, home ownership will become more and more difficult financially. I think a few tweaks to rent controls would make renting more attractive quite easily in a market with higher interest rates.
one's relationship to property is a much better predictor of voting than one's AB/C1/C2/DE class designation.
It‘s true as we stand now but I’m not sure that it’s the future epochal moment in British politics that some on the left seem to think it is.
The idea that homeownership is the key to economic security is largely based on the massive inflation in house prices that have occurred over the last two decades. The BoE have attributed this phenomenon to the massive fall in interest rates over the past 30 years or so i.e. the less you have to pay in interest the more you can put into outbidding your rival in the housing market. Now that interest rates have bottomed out that kind of inflation in property prices won’t happen again. If interest rates start to rise again, home ownership will become more and more difficult financially. I think a few tweaks to rent controls would make renting more attractive quite easily in a market with higher interest rates.
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A trade deal that doesn't include services at all which makes up the majority of the UK economy, draws a hard border between us and Northern Ireland, and has completely fecked over our farmers and fishermen. I think the 10 years thing comes about from the assumption that you're actually trying to negotiate a good deal rather than just any old shite.
The Mirror has shifted to the left in recent years, so it's unfair to compare them with The Sun. Then again, it's unfair to compare a pile of dogshit to The Sun - I know which I'd rather have deposited on my doorstep.
Unless the Tories know this and bring in incentives like Help to Buy and stopping stamp duty of course (which resulted in the highest percentage increase for years despite the UK being in lockdown).
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It's not been perfect, but you have to appreciate the fact that the situation has been unprecedented. Do you think Labour would have handled it better?
What has really disappointed me most of all is that the efforts of people who have kept the country going in the last year have largely been, disregarded. NHS workers getting a 1% pay rise, and very little mention of shop workers working through the pandemic enabling us to buy food for our families. When we compare the death rates with other countries, the UK is not too bad. To say it's been a shitshow is completely ridiculous. Dealing with the pandemic and brexit at the same time has given the government the biggest challenge any government has faced since the war. You need to put things into perspective.
It depends what definition you are working from. Pro woke is you feel up to date and in touch with issues to do with social and racial discrimination.
People who dislike ‘wokism’ find it nauseating. People who get irate and irrational about issues that dont really affect them - eg white upper class brits smashing up london due to racism against black people on another continent. Bit of a strong reaction considering the disconnect. For me it also encompasses people who react to any differing opinion with an air or superiority, dismissiveness or belittlement. Cancel culture. Adding an ‘ist’ or ‘phobe’ to a precursor as a label to shut people down. Telling people they are talking ‘nonsense’ for holding a different view. Like the 18 year old fool in the local boozer who lectured me about all the ‘carbon we create’ then said i was clueless c**t for pointing out we cant ‘create’ carbon merely transform or transfer it due to the law of mass conservation.
The problem with this is its basically a form of bigotry. People dont like it. It creates polarisation. The left employ it much atm and it shuts down political conversation but doesnt allow any persuasion. Twitter is a left wing echo chamber. But you cant stop people voting, and its a trend that will have to be bucked to stop the disenfranchisment.
Thats just my thoughts anyway
It sounds like you’re just irate with people that disagree with you to be honest which is ironic considering you want to have a serious political discussion while using them term “woke” in every attempt you make at said serious discussion.
The FTSE is still climbing nicely regardless, and I'm sure we'll see a review of services in time. The EU needs our financial services.
With free trade deals signed with other countries, the opportunities for further growth are there.
Yep, this is a concern.
Temporarily.
It's far from any old shite.
I dont mind a discussion or differing opinions. But theres no different opinion when someone just drops in with ‘nah you are talking shit’.
I guess some people just wont learn though
Yeah, let’s cut the Tories some slack because of the nightmare Brexit turned out to be.
Oh wait…
We're beginning to do better now due to the vaccination program, but to forget what happened before is beyond belief. For most of that time we had the highest deaths per capita in the world and we are still 12th highest despite our vaccinations being ahead of most other countries. Yeah, there has been one success but I don't think Labour could have possibly handled it worse until it came to the vaccinations even if they tried.
It's the way you tell them. Good laugh. Excellent.
Enjoy selling your quince to India.
Ugh. People who argue like that make me want to bang my head against a wall.
I'm taking about you in case it isn't clear.