Keir Starmer Labour Leader

Jezpeza said:
true yeah. Labour haven't disenfranchised and haemoraghed voters like me to the tories, its just me. Stay in your cocoon
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So you've voted for another party because you think that Labour councillors are entirely responsible for all of your town's issues. I can understand that feeling even if I disagree with the culpability.

The bit I don't get is why you think the Tories of all people are going to fix anything. They've had over a decade to make things better, but all I've seen is that things are worse. High streets dying because they haven't held the likes of Amazon accountable, public services closed down while huge amounts of public money go to their party pals. Reports of sleeze are rampant. Effects of Brexit forcing businesses to stop exports and scale back expansion plans or open branches overseas instead. How can these possibly be the people to fix our problems? These things are much more important than railing against 'woke' labour voters.
 
decorativeed said:
Yeah, let's vote for the even richer people, that'll show 'em!

Can't believe the effect of over a decade of tory central government cuts destroying community services has led to record numbers of people voting for local tory control.
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You are missing the point, I think. Labour should field a more authentically local candidate.
 
Jezpeza said:
what have labour done for working class people? A labour govt means plenty of spending on freeloaders, but if you work what do you get? The road outside my parents house has needed resurfacing for 30 years. The bin collections have been cut. Labour council. Brexit was the final straw. Everyone in my household went away from labour for good. Wokism, soft policies on crime and immigration and free spending on bemefits doesnt connect with working class people.
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I mean, you can blame potholes outside your parents house all you want but you kinda reveal your true colours here.
 
Jezpeza said:
To be honest its not so much the policies as the people. Dianne Abbot, who labelled every terrorist attack in london an ‘incident’ then when that bloke attacked a mosque a ‘terrorist attack’. Jeremy corbyn who was pictured with hamas and hezbollah commanders and the ira, but got all woke about israel then denied antisemitism in labour. And the large numbers of nauseating labour wokes all over twitter etc. The refusal to acknowledge brexit. List goes on
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You're coming across as a bit brainwashed tbh. This strange obsession with 'wokeness' is quite telling.
 
Buster15 said:
We are both retired.
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So it's not a general point that applies to the average person? I doubt there are a great many retired people paying that much council tax, just people who own a fairly expensive house that puts them in one of the highest bands. Most people aren't as fortunate.
 
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Raven said:
Starmer should go. He's an utter cretin who doesn't deserve a single second more as leader.
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Who replaces him though? Labour's problems aren't solely down to the leader. Not that I'm standing up for Starmer, I think he's been absolutely shit.
 
Pink Moon said:
I mean, you can blame potholes outside your parents house all you want but you kinda reveal your true colours here.
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can you explain why me and many like me should bust our balls and be expected to pay my mortage, council tax, the whole hog and get nothing in return? Then people get the same for nothing. Under the tories the handouts have decreased. At least they dont pretend to care. Ultimately thats whats turned heads. I havent always voted torie but the blind loyalty to ‘working mans labour’ is gone.
 
Jezpeza said:
what have labour done for working class people? A labour govt means plenty of spending on freeloaders, but if you work what do you get? The road outside my parents house has needed resurfacing for 30 years. The bin collections have been cut. Labour council. Brexit was the final straw. Everyone in my household went away from labour for good. Wokism, soft policies on crime and immigration and free spending on bemefits doesnt connect with working class people.
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Have a drive through Hale, and Hale Barnes, two of the wealthiest towns outside London. Tory run for years. Then come back and tell me that voting Conservative gives you a nice smooth ride in your car.

Also, I don't get why people want to be able to fill two bins full of shit every week instead of one. I've never had a problem with fortnightly collections, and that's even when bringing up two small kids in disposable nappies. It's also how it's done I literally every part of the country. Recycle maybe?
 
Jezpeza said:
can you explain why me and many like me should bust our balls and be expected to pay my mortage, council tax, the whole hog and get nothing in return? Then people get the same for nothing. Under the tories the handouts have decreased. At least they dont pretend to care. Ultimately thats whats turned heads. I havent always voted torie but the blind loyalty to ‘working mans labour’ is gone.
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Nothing in return? No free health service, no free education? No police and fire service? No benefits if you get ill or lose your job? You didn't get any of that?
 
Jezpeza said:
If you want to believe that okay i guess
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Believe what? I've asked you why you previously voted Labour given your grievances have been the same ones raised for decades?

It simply doesn't make sense so you must have had some reason.
 
Jezpeza said:
can you explain why me and many like me should bust our balls and be expected to pay my mortage, council tax, the whole hog and get nothing in return? Then people get the same for nothing. Under the tories the handouts have decreased. At least they dont pretend to care. Ultimately thats whats turned heads. I havent always voted torie but the blind loyalty to ‘working mans labour’ is gone.
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:lol: If anything the handouts have increased. Just to people that don't need them.

I mean you're paying a mortgage so that you can own a house right? There's a hell of a lot of people that can't even get on the property ladder.

Council Tax pays for a lot of different services. You should educate yourself on what they are.
 
Smores said:
Believe what? I've asked you why you previously voted Labour given your grievances have been the same ones raised for decades?

It simply doesn't make sense so you must have had some reason.
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I said in an earlier post i guess that there was a blind loyalty effect and its gone
 
Raven said:
I'm not a Labour voter while Kier is in charge so I do accept Labour has been losing voters. However, when you blurt out a bunch of moronic Tory attack lines, I know exactly what you're up to.
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Those 'moronic Tory attack lines' are precisely the ones that have motivated people in Hartlepool to stop voting Labour and start voting Tory. The evidence is right before your eyes ; ie Labour just got stuffed by Tories spouting precisely these lines in Hartlepool.

It's self evident that the way to eat out the heart of Labour support is to beat the nationalism drum, tickle a person's xenophobia and point to the local council as the source of the rest of their discontent. It's persuasive. People have obviously been persuaded. The proof is in the pudding - ever growing Tory presence in erstwhile Labour heartlands. Why would you be surprised when you ask these voters for their reasons if they then justify themselves with a regurgitation of obviously successful Tory attack lines? To me it's precisely this cohort of voters that are most likely to spout such things.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
Those 'moronic Tory attack lines' are precisely the ones that have motivated people in Hartlepool to stop voting Labour and start voting Tory. The evidence is right before your eyes ; ie Labour just got stuffed by Tories spouting precisely these lines in Hartlepool.

It's self evident that the way to eat out the heart of Labour support is to beat the nationalism drum, tickle a person's xenophobia and point to the local council as the source of the rest of their discontent. It's persuasive. People have obviously been persuaded. The proof is in the pudding - ever growing Tory presence in erstwhile Labour heartlands. Why would you be surprised when you ask these voters for their reasons if they then justify themselves with a regurgitation of obviously successful Tory attack lines? To me it's precisely this cohort of voters that are most likely to spout such things.
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It seems to me the tories know labours voters better than labour do. Out of touch as it gets
 
Jezpeza said:
I said in an earlier post i guess that there was a blind loyalty effect and its gone
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So given your list don't you just think you've realised you're a Tory? You can blame a shift in Labour but it's not that as all of your accusations have applied for decades on decades.

So yeah they've lost your vote and i imagine many other Northerners but it's far more to do with the fact that there isn't the northern towns automatically voting Labour dynamic.

Oddly now more than ever the Tories deserve disdain but this started with Blair and Brown and immigration. Labour dared to pass judgment on bigotry.
 
This is why they are doomed.

Former Hartlepool MP Lord Mandelson, a key Tony Blair ally, says "Covid and Corbyn" were the main factors in the defeat
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Drifter said:
This is why they are doomed.
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Hardly - these elections came at a great time for the government given the vaccine roll-out which has been amazing, and Corbyn was a massive turn-off for voters.

But there are loads of other issues at play too. Depending on the side of the Labour divide you're on, you'll pick the ones that fit your narrative. In honesty, there's an element of truth to them all. It's why they're so fecked.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
Those 'moronic Tory attack lines' are precisely the ones that have motivated people in Hartlepool to stop voting Labour and start voting Tory. The evidence is right before your eyes ; ie Labour just got stuffed by Tories spouting precisely these lines in Hartlepool.

It's self evident that the way to eat out the heart of Labour support is to beat the nationalism drum, tickle a person's xenophobia and point to the local council as the source of the rest of their discontent. It's persuasive. People have obviously been persuaded. The proof is in the pudding - ever growing Tory presence in erstwhile Labour heartlands. Why would you be surprised when you ask these voters for their reasons if they then justify themselves with a regurgitation of obviously successful Tory attack lines? To me it's precisely this cohort of voters that are most likely to spout such things.
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I've heard tiny minded little racist Tories spouting this shit for 25 years. They were never Labour supporters, always Tories.
 
groovyalbert said:
Hardly - these elections came at a great time for the government given the vaccine roll-out which has been amazing, and Corbyn was a massive turn-off for voters.

But there are loads of other issues at play too. Depending on the side of the Labour divide you're on, you'll pick the ones that fit your narrative. In honesty, there's an element of truth to them all. It's why they're so fecked.
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Corbyn won Hartlepool twice both with big margins.
 
Jezpeza said:
It seems to me the tories know labours voters better than labour do. Out of touch as it gets
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To be fair... they know them because these are exactly the people they have brainwashed along with their cheerleaders in the media.

You rail against 'wokism' but you could do with some in reality. You are the Daily Mail's wet dream. Someone who will swallow whatever they say and thank them for it... 'please Sir, can I have some more'.
 
Jezpeza said:
Tories provide all of that
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Whoever is in power provides that, but it is utterly irrelevant to your previous point. You envy people on benefits. I'd love to see you swap circumstances with someone living on benefits to be honest, as you obviously have no idea how lucky you are.
 
Drifter said:
Carry on in your bubble if that gives you comfort. These results were all about Starmer
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It's probably a bit of both to be fair. Corbyn has definitely had an impact on some labour supporters and the decisions taken during that time are going to have an impact for years to come on some voters.

It's worth remembering that there hasn't been a more left orientated PM for around 45 years now. I think that's a shame, but it's not a recent development in politics.
 
balaks said:
It was and still is the problem. Corbyn and his supporters have set the Labour party back a generation in my opinion. Labour is now pretty toxic for those moderate 'in-between' voters because of the entire Corbyn experience and it's going to take a long time to undo that damage. Also, you have the vaccine successes that the Tories can cling to which is undoubtably giving them a boost, plus English people generally vote Tory anyway. Labour are in serious trouble. Tories can always rely on jingoistic nonsense to rally the voters because a lot of people just want to feel like their country is still 'great' - sending the boats to Jersey on the eve of an election is just playing into their hands.
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What a ridiculous narrative.

This false narrative is a big part of the problem.
 
Jezpeza said:
can you explain why me and many like me should bust our balls and be expected to pay my mortage, council tax, the whole hog and get nothing in return? Then people get the same for nothing. Under the tories the handouts have decreased. At least they dont pretend to care. Ultimately thats whats turned heads. I havent always voted torie but the blind loyalty to ‘working mans labour’ is gone.
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You were complaining that 80% of your council tax goes on welfare, now you’re saying that people are getting free handouts. Next you’ll be blaming immigrants.

Maybe you need to have a think about why people need this kind of support. It couldn’t be that (Tory) government policies are continually punishing the worst off and do nothing to actually solving the root cause of these issues.

Take housing benefit, which I’m assuming is something you’re talking about? How is it possible that a family with two low paid parents, probably a mother working part time if the kid is old enough, can afford expensive private renting costs? A family home in my area costs over £1k a month before any bills. Even an average wage of say £26k is going to struggle with that, let alone those who earn well below it.

Yet you’re saying they just need to work harder. Isn’t it more about the lack of social or affordable housing, or the inability for so many young people to get on the housing ladder?
 
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