Which party do you support now Dobs?
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
The cock and balls on the ballot paper (with a note making clear that it isn't a vote for Starmer) party.
While the left wing and the centrists fight over the bloated corpse of the Labour party, some of the most corrupt and incompetent Tories completely avoid any electoral consequences heading into a second decade of power.
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Seems like the Green Party has made some gains. Astonishing how many gains the Conservatives have made considering the disastrous handling of COVID. Maybe people have the vaccine rollout fresh in the mind.
Every time I read your post about English politics, I keep going back to your stance on pakistani politics of how it needs to be modelled after quran.
I’m not sure why the surprise, there was 10,000 brexit votes from the last election that had no real chance of going to any other party than conservative.
I have no idea how it’s possible for Labour to cater for areas like Hartlepool and still engage the younger left.
I have no idea how it’s possible for Labour to cater for areas like Hartlepool and still engage the younger left.
Exactly. Those voters are gone forever.
In a way it actually makes sense to vote for Conservatives at local level when we've seen how they distribute the cash. I'd want some of that Jenrick Towns Fund too.
They lost 9 points off their own vote. That's pretty appalling. Brexit is supposed to be over, they could try actually having some kind of clear direction for the party.
The best bit is the BBC already have the first quote from some neoliberal Labour MP saying it's because they haven't changed enough, they need to feck up the party faster and further to stand a chance.
Any leader with a shred of decency would be writing his resignation letter as we speak.
I’m not saying they couldn’t have done better, but they aren’t able to please their traditional base anymore and stay left. It’s impossible as far as I can see.
After spending the first part of my life (that I can remember) under a Labour government, thinking that Cameron was just a phase and the younger generation could get rid of them, I’ve fully accepted I live in a conservative country now.
The problem isn't that the public don't think there has been change. The problem is that Starmer offers very little perceived difference to the Tories.
Wasn't Starmer the shadow Brexit minister for that election? It was his strategy.
This is a decent read on Hartlepool
https://unherd.com/2021/05/how-the-left-lost-hartlepool/
This bit made me smile
Unfortunately, the most vocal local Socialists — the Northern Independence Party — want a referendum on secession from the United Kingdom, will call their state Northumbria, and are not granting interviews to me.
https://unherd.com/2021/05/how-the-left-lost-hartlepool/
This bit made me smile
Unfortunately, the most vocal local Socialists — the Northern Independence Party — want a referendum on secession from the United Kingdom, will call their state Northumbria, and are not granting interviews to me.
I don't see why they can't stay left on traditional left wing issues.
You'll find if Labour split they will be in the wilderness for decades. They can't get majority now. Splitting the vote hardly seems logical.
Unless you want Tory in a blue tie versus Tory in a red tie.
Unelectable.
As expected, another shitshow from labour.
.
The political system was designed by the elites and has always benefited them.
That's the UK's FPTP system for you.
The political system was designed by the elites and has always benefited them.
Absolutely. Starmer will use his failings as an excuse to further destroy the party.
Neither the 'London remainer elite' or the 'woke socialists' which make up the two rival factions in the Labour party have a vision that the electorate at large is interested in. In the short to medium term the Labour party is dead in the water. Doomed to the two factions blaming each other for Labour's absent appeal when they're both the cause of it.
They can, but I don’t think that wins them enough votes in Hartlepool.
I guess you can wait a while after Brexit and maybe those voters will figure out that immigration wasn’t the reason they can’t buy a house or see a doctor for weeks.
Same with the House of Lords. And the US Senate. Most upper chambers, really.
Labour gained the majority of the UKIP votes in 2017. Of course that was on a strategy that the centrists started publically infighting about, now they've got power they're hurting due to their own actions.
Honestly this approach was obvious. Why vote for a party pretending to be Tory when you can just vote for the real thing?
Labour have to actually offer something other than silence (which so many of you said was some 5d chess)
But I thought we were told Corbyn was the problem. Any other leader and it would be a Labour romp.
Labour went after libdem votes and got them. They just lost the rest in the process. They are now just an also ran, as the lib dem were for many years. Theres two generations of voters who will not forget what they did on brexit.
Yes he was.
But that was party policy, not just Starmer policy.
But it is the public perception of Labour which is the problem. They are seen by many as old fashioned and not trendy.
Nevertheless, he is simply not strong enough a personality to challenge Boris. And as mentioned, the timing benefited the Tories.
Labour are like a football team in the doldrums. It will take time to turn the legacy of the last disastrous election around.
And that could take a change of leadership.
Fair enough. But the effects of Brexit have yet to have a real effect. We are just beginning to see how it will play out.
But credit Boris. He is a very lucky leader. But eventually luck changes.
It was and still is the problem. Corbyn and his supporters have set the Labour party back a generation in my opinion. Labour is now pretty toxic for those moderate 'in-between' voters because of the entire Corbyn experience and it's going to take a long time to undo that damage. Also, you have the vaccine successes that the Tories can cling to which is undoubtably giving them a boost, plus English people generally vote Tory anyway. Labour are in serious trouble. Tories can always rely on jingoistic nonsense to rally the voters because a lot of people just want to feel like their country is still 'great' - sending the boats to Jersey on the eve of an election is just playing into their hands.
what have labour done for working class people? A labour govt means plenty of spending on freeloaders, but if you work what do you get? The road outside my parents house has needed resurfacing for 30 years. The bin collections have been cut. Labour council. Brexit was the final straw. Everyone in my household went away from labour for good. Wokism, soft policies on crime and immigration and free spending on bemefits doesnt connect with working class people.
I see this all the time, but what actual policies were Labour proposing over the last five years would qualify as 'woke'?
To be honest I don’t think it’s actually their policies, but in my experience the people you generally find most vocal about labour also tend to be the people who are vocal on issues many would consider “woke”, and for a huge amount of the population that’s not something that connects with them
To be honest its not so much the policies as the people. Dianne Abbot, who labelled every terrorist attack in london an ‘incident’ then when that bloke attacked a mosque a ‘terrorist attack’. Jeremy corbyn who was pictured with hamas and hezbollah commanders and the ira, but got all woke about israel then denied antisemitism in labour. And the large numbers of nauseating labour wokes all over twitter etc. The refusal to acknowledge brexit. List goes on
I think the vaccine rollout has saved them. UK now out of the top 10 on deaths per capita and presumably we'll fall further down that list as we're we are doing so well with the vaccinations.
Firstly that's an over simplification. Secondly Pakistan is a completely different society to Britain.
1. 35% of the population is illiterate
2. It has a tribal social structure
3. It has a society where authoritarianism is appreciated - despite multiple military coups the army has the highest trust ratings in the country with 70% of people considering it trustworthy.
4. Research shows at least 84% of the country wants Shariah law, poll after poll has suggested Pakistani people want a conservative religious form of governance to reflect the society.
In fact the only similarity with Britain is that the political class of Pakistan is dominated by the wealthy elite and they rule it (rule no govern), like the brown colonialists they are.
I think most people regard Labour as a bunch of hopeless whiney dithering leftists. They try to tick as many boxes as possible to win the popularity contest.
Oh man
that emoji will probably be all over the torie whatsapp group when labour get about 40 seats at the next GE. Thats labours suicide pact at the moment - either laugh at lost voters who explain why they dont vote labour anymore or tell them they are thick and wrong. No skin off my back
Oh man
The non sad part is that this is the view of the Labour party up and down the country, no matter how inaccurate it is.
Labour are shit at owning their own narrative - the tabloids and the Tories now define who Labour are. It's all well and good owning the twittersphere, but elections are won and lost by the votes of numpties who read the Sun, even after page 3 has gone.
I want Keith out - but it won't matter if he's replaced by a clone or if the labour party continues to let others speak for it. Elections might be lost at the top, but they're won from the ground, on the doorsteps. Locally Labour have spent years telling us Tory cuts mean we can't do this that or the other. If that's true, then maybe i ought to vote Tory if i want my bins collected? The thuggish behaviour of the Tory party is working. What Labour needed to do was deliver inspite of Tory cuts. In Derby they've made a lot of stupid decisions. Funding a fancy expensive council house refurb whilst complaining of cuts was one of them. Refusing to take action against flytippers was another. They're seen as ineffective locally and rudderless nationally.
Out of interest, what would make your family vote Labour again? That is the question the Labour party ought to be asking you.