Keir Starmer Labour Leader

sun_tzu said:
It could be (a lot) worse
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:lol:

That last labour guy really does live rent free in you're head. Although fair play I didn't think you would use Starmer is nearly as unpopular as Corbyn as a pro Starmer argument!

sun_tzu said:
though lets not forget that polls (especially you gov ones about labour) apparently dont mean anything... (people allegedly only post them to be annoying)
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My bad for thinking Corbyn and Starmer are two different politicians with different strategies.

The whole idea with Corbyn was that he had popular policies that could go against his shite polling or could improve it during a general election(Which worked in 2017 but sadly didn't work in 2019).
Starmer shtick is to be out of the gate a electable prime minster in waiting. If people think he is shite now and it seems very likely he isn't not going to offer any real policy in the next election then how the feck can he improve his public image.
 
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He is becoming a meme at this point




Edit - The outcome



open goals, real opposition, etc etc
 
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Now he is seeking to blame someone else for not communicating the "Labour vision". Coincidence that she is more left leaning than him? Maybe I should rephrase that because many Tories are more left leaning than Starmer.


Starmer could sack Anneliese Dodds as shadow chancellor – reports
Rachel Reeves - the shadow Cabinet Office minister - is reportedly favourite to replace Dodds.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/p...se-dodds-as-shadow-chancellor-reports-261359/

Edit: hoping the latest briefing saying this will not happen is true.
 
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Sweet Square said:


Turns out this Church is into gay conversion therapy. Theresa May did something similar as PM.
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The fact that he/his team obviously weighed up the pros and cons of this visit and went ahead with it is unreal. To me its valuing the vote of religious groups that promote conversion therapy over the vote of lgbt people means he has lost my vote in any future elections he is leader. I normally just vote anyone who is most likely to take the seat that isn't tory so lib dem but probably wont make any difference since I now live in a labour safe seat.
 
He really is utterly abysmal. It’s as if someone was trolling to be as bad an opposition leader as they can...

If he leads Labour into a GE... he will do worse than Corbyn in 2019 without even a fraction of the media hostility Labour had then.
 
I will add this in here for information.

I had an opportunity to attend the local CLP meeting where our Labour MP spoke. They support the leadership and so I suspect what they told us reflects the thoughts in LOTO's office.

COVID and the vaccine rollout has caused two main problems for Labour. First, the Government are gaining support for their perceived successes with the vaccine - even though it was down to the NHS and people have very quickly forgotten about the incompetences which preceded it. Second, and I got the impression that this was a real concern - opinion polling consistently shows that the electorate are really opposed to the Labour Party 'playing politics' at a time of national crisis. This was repeated a few times so I think that this really seems to be shaping actions.

What the CLP were promised (again a few times) is that there are major policies ready to roll out, attacks ready to be made, pressure to be exerted, but the leadership is waiting until COVID has passed (or nearly passed - this point was a bit ambiguous) to really attack the Government and not risk public anger over doing so.

A lot of members were unhappy (to be diplomatic) that the party wasn't doing more.

The MP mentioned many times the electoral mountain Corbyn left the party to climb. Labour has to win at least 15 seats in the South East to win a majority, if it doesn't win more than 40 in Scotland, so we have to appeal to many different strands of the electorate. We were told that Keir has done a lot to detoxify the party, but there is still a long way to go, and that our policies have to appeal to the voters, which they did not in 2019.

We were also told of the huge amount of good work Labour has done to force U-turns on behalf of the Government, with the Government picking up many Labour suggestions for providing support over the pandemic and so on (the MP did provide a list here but I didn't take verbatim notes). They also spoke of the Victims' Bill which Labour has written in opposition to the Policing Bill. The Government are not supporting a piece of legislation which would change victims' lives and give them a lot of support.

There was an oblique mention of the frustration of not having these good ideas being picked up by the media, but this was not followed up on as we were out of time and had to start voting.

Anyway, I hope this is of some use and insight into where LOTO is at the moment.
 
Frosty said:
I will add this in here for information.

I had an opportunity to attend the local CLP meeting where our Labour MP spoke. They support the leadership and so I suspect what they told us reflects the thoughts in LOTO's office.

COVID and the vaccine rollout has caused two main problems for Labour. First, the Government are gaining support for their perceived successes with the vaccine - even though it was down to the NHS and people have very quickly forgotten about the incompetences which preceded it. Second, and I got the impression that this was a real concern - opinion polling consistently shows that the electorate are really opposed to the Labour Party 'playing politics' at a time of national crisis. This was repeated a few times so I think that this really seems to be shaping actions.

What the CLP were promised (again a few times) is that there are major policies ready to roll out, attacks ready to be made, pressure to be exerted, but the leadership is waiting until COVID has passed (or nearly passed - this point was a bit ambiguous) to really attack the Government and not risk public anger over doing so.

A lot of members were unhappy (to be diplomatic) that the party wasn't doing more.

The MP mentioned many times the electoral mountain Corbyn left the party to climb. Labour has to win at least 15 seats in the South East to win a majority, if it doesn't win more than 40 in Scotland, so we have to appeal to many different strands of the electorate. We were told that Keir has done a lot to detoxify the party, but there is still a long way to go, and that our policies have to appeal to the voters, which they did not in 2019.

We were also told of the huge amount of good work Labour has done to force U-turns on behalf of the Government, with the Government picking up many Labour suggestions for providing support over the pandemic and so on (the MP did provide a list here but I didn't take verbatim notes). They also spoke of the Victims' Bill which Labour has written in opposition to the Policing Bill. The Government are not supporting a piece of legislation which would change victims' lives and give them a lot of support.

There was an oblique mention of the frustration of not having these good ideas being picked up by the media, but this was not followed up on as we were out of time and had to start voting.

Anyway, I hope this is of some use and insight into where LOTO is at the moment.
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They may as well have just admitted that Starmer is purging the party.
 
GoranIvanisevic said:
The fact that he/his team obviously weighed up the pros and cons of this visit and went ahead with it is unreal. To me its valuing the vote of religious groups that promote conversion therapy over the vote of lgbt people means he has lost my vote in any future elections he is leader. I normally just vote anyone who is most likely to take the seat that isn't tory so lib dem but probably wont make any difference since I now live in a labour safe seat.
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I actually can’t believe he or anyone in his team knew they did gay conversion therapy.

if they did, there can be zero reason why you would visit the church.

it has to be an oversight, that doesn’t excuse it - but it just cannot be a conscious decision.
 
Sweet Square said:


Turns out this Church is into gay conversion therapy. Theresa May did something similar as PM.
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A cursory search of this is kinda interesting and very strange.

There are 12 year old claims by this website that they did 'voluntary exorcisms' under a previous pastor.
http://old.ekklesia.co.uk/node/10788

It's referenced by Pink News, but the evidence is patchy. They focus on what is demonstrably true- the church's virulently homophobic literature, including a letter to the Telegraph denouncing gay marriage and Sunday school material.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/04/...s-house-church-backlash-theresa-may-lgbt-gay/

The articles say that prior to Starmer, May and Johnson both visited it. How the hell can two PMs and a would-be PM all end up promoting this clearly heinous church? It's baffling.
 
Jippy said:
The articles say that prior to Starmer, May and Johnson both visited it. How the hell can two PMs and a would-be PM all end up promoting this clearly heinous church? It's baffling.
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The May and Boris ones I can put down to standard Tory homophobia, the tories are able to hide it better these days but their still old fashioned bigots at the end of the day. The Starmer one has to be some level of incompetence and I would say just a general level of not giving a shit. I would guess his team picked any old church and couldn't be bothered to do background research.

The longer his leadership goes on the more I'm coming around to the idea that he is both out of his depth and really not that arsed.
 
Finally decided to cancel my party membership after months of deliberation. I've always believed in trying to fight from the inside and have urged anyone to do that instead of abandoning the party and snipe from the outside. However I can't ever see my own beliefs being compatible not just with Starmer and New Labour but with large swathes of the so called red wall.

I do still believe in the principles of the Labour movement and hope that 1 day the party returns to it's core values of standing up for the oppressed and weaker members of our society.

I will still vote for Labour as it's the only way to kick the tory bastards out of my town and I will still demonstrate for causes I believe in despite what the aforementioned bastards tell me I can and cannot do but no more party meetings, electioneering etc etc.

I feel quite sad posting this as I've been a member since I was 18 (55 now).
 
My bad I missed this bit out

There is broad agreement that Starmer has used Labour’s opposition days well, however. Motions on free school meals, Covid-19 support and the planned cut to Universal Credit have skilfully pressed on bruises and exposed Tory divisions. Starmer’s PPS also points to Prime Minister’s Questions as a parliamentary tool being put to good use. Harris enthuses: “Some PMQs I could literally cry at how professional Keir is, how he gets the tone right and how he gets Boris Johnson in a knot.”
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:lol:

Has to be a piss take.
 
Sweet Square said:
My bad I missed this bit out


:lol:

Has to be a piss take.
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Nope - Harris has a reputation of being wildly ambitious, so I would put this brown nosing down to wanting to be Shadow Home Secretary if Thomas-Symonds gets the chop (as is likely).

Also her political judgments are hardly great. From wiki:

In July 2018, Harris came under political pressure after allegations of homophobia were made against her during a trial in Cardiff involving a former colleague, who subsequently became an employee in her office after Harris was elected. The allegations, which dated from before Harris had become an MP alleged that Harris had made homophobic remarks and an alleged assault. Harris stated that she did not remember the incidents but stated if they had occurred they would have been "office banter". Her response caused controversy among LGBT groups and Labour Party colleagues; however, Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and LGBT political colleagues supported her, with some describing her as a 'strong ally' to the LGBT community.

On 13 February 2021, The Times revealed that Harris had invited Nicole Elkabbas to a parliamentary event on antigambling. This event took place two months after Elkabbas was found guilty of eliciting over £45,000 in donations by pretending to have ovarian cancer.
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Sweet Square said:
The May and Boris ones I can put down to standard Tory homophobia, the tories are able to hide it better these days but their still old fashioned bigots at the end of the day. The Starmer one has to be some level of incompetence and I would say just a general level of not giving a shit. I would guess his team picked any old church and couldn't be bothered to do background research.

The longer his leadership goes on the more I'm coming around to the idea that he is both out of his depth and really not that arsed.
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I wonder if they're cynically looking for a church with a black congregation so they can tick off a couple of boxes in their diversity targets. God knows how they land on that church though.

Dunno about not that arsed, but clearly his advisers are incompetent and he needs to sort a proper media strategy out cos he's going backwards.
 
Jippy said:
I wonder if they're cynically looking for a church with a black congregation so they can tick off a couple of boxes in their diversity targets. God knows how they land on that church though.

Dunno about not that arsed, but clearly his advisers are incompetent and he needs to sort a proper media strategy out cos he's going backwards.
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It is the emphasis on waiting until COVID has passed that concerns me. I appreciate that opinion polls may be saying that the public don't want Labour to take advantage of a national crisis, but I think this is being too literally followed - if the Party wait until after the pandemic, then I think it may be too late to change minds. There is an abundence of over-caution at present.
 
Frosty said:
Nope - Harris has a reputation of being wildly ambitious, so I would put this brown nosing down to wanting to be Shadow Home Secretary if Thomas-Symonds gets the chop (as is likely).

Also her political judgments are hardly great. From wiki:
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Cheers.

She sounds terrible. So much of the party is stuck in the 20th century, desperately needs to be updated.

The Corbyn project was a massive failure on this and I can't see Starmer making any progressive changes.
 
Sweet Square said:
The May and Boris ones I can put down to standard Tory homophobia, the tories are able to hide it better these days but their still old fashioned bigots at the end of the day. The Starmer one has to be some level of incompetence and I would say just a general level of not giving a shit. I would guess his team picked any old church and couldn't be bothered to do background research.

The longer his leadership goes on the more I'm coming around to the idea that he is both out of his depth and really not that arsed.
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it’s pretty hypercritical...

Maybe they are all just incompetent...

I find it very bizarre however that 2 PMs and the opposition leader have all visited the same church.
 
Frosty said:
It is the emphasis on waiting until COVID has passed that concerns me. I appreciate that opinion polls may be saying that the public don't want Labour to take advantage of a national crisis, but I think this is being too literally followed - if the Party wait until after the pandemic, then I think it may be too late to change minds. There is an abundence of over-caution at present.
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It was certainly a difficult balance, but you'd think the further revelations around Hancock's landlord mate getting the PPE contract the other month and things like the race report last week are easy targets. The dismal post-Brexit trade figures etc...
I appreciate they then had to be cautious around trying to fight through the vaccine positive news tide, but the polling is looking disastrous.
 
Frosty said:
It is the emphasis on waiting until COVID has passed that concerns me. I appreciate that opinion polls may be saying that the public don't want Labour to take advantage of a national crisis, but I think this is being too literally followed - if the Party wait until after the pandemic, then I think it may be too late to change minds. There is an abundence of over-caution at present.
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They're waiting until 2024 to have a policy regarding climate change, so this is relatively well thought out.
 
Hammerfell said:
I’m done with Labour.
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Starmers job is done.

1)Purge the party of anyone who is not centre-right at all costs
2)lose the election (if he even lasts that long)
3)Then leave Labour as a centre-right party versus the far right Tories. The illusion of choice begins again.
 
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