Keir Starmer Labour Leader

matherto said:
I was only 7 when Blair got into power but wasn’t that part of ‘New’ Labour?
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Multiple Labour leaders have wrestled with the issue over the years, from Starmer to Blair, Kinnock and beyond. Even Wilson, arguably.
Crazy really considering the Tories have always done their level best to wreck Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
 
nickm said:
Sorry but this is laughable, your last strategy pretty much wiped labour out as an opposition force. The hole labour is in, is the hole you dug mate. Your side doesn’t have the credibility to carry the argument, so how about we let COVID pass and then see if labours chances of getting a hearing improve?
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My last strategy? What are you wittering about, do you mean the previous Labour strategy?

When did Labour lose Scotland? Can you see them winning an election without winning back Scotland?

Have you seen any recent surveys on the continued damaging impact that Labour taking Britain into an illegal war in Iraq has done?

When were those strategies implemented?

Have you reviewed Labour election results under Brown or Milliband?

How do you explain the recent plummeting of Starmers approval rating on YouGov? I suppose that is the previous strategies fault too?

Rewriting history to imply Labour's strategy under Corbyn is the main cause for Labour's woes is laughably incorrect. But expected from you.
 
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Fluctuation0161 said:
My last strategy? What are you wittering about, do you mean the previous Labour strategy?

When did Labour lose Scotland? Can you see them winning an election without winning back Scotland?

Have you seen any recent surveys on the continued damaging impact that Labour taking Britain into an illegal war in Iraq has done?

When were those strategies implemented?

Have you reviewed Labour election results under Brown or Milliband?

How do you explain the recent plummeting of Starmers approval rating on YouGov? I suppose that is the previous strategies fault too?

Rewriting history to imply Labour's strategy under Corbyn is the main cause for Labour's woes is laughably incorrect. But expected from you.
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We cannot change the past mistakes; mearly to learn from them, which Labour is not good at.
But what is pretty obvious from the last election, as well as Brexit being a major problem, so was both Corbyn and the campaign.

Like it or not, the UK does not support far left policies. And the powerful Tory centric media finds it just too easy to rubbish them.
That is just a fact of life here.

What Labour has to do is to make itself relevant to the electorate.
Offering well thought out solutions to the onging problems.
In my view, the last Corbyn administration was far too reactive and far too extravagant in their promises. And they were not trusted.

As to whether Starmer will be more successful remains to be seen.
But I do feel that he is going to be a more realistic alternative to Boris.
 
Buster15 said:
We cannot change the past mistakes; mearly to learn from them, which Labour is not good at.
But what is pretty obvious from the last election, as well as Brexit being a major problem, so was both Corbyn and the campaign.

Like it or not, the UK does not support far left policies. And the powerful Tory centric media finds it just too easy to rubbish them.
That is just a fact of life here.
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The reason it doesn't support far left policies though is the media environment and labour can't change that I think
 
GoranIvanisevic said:
The reason it doesn't support far left policies though is the media environment and labour can't change that I think
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In part. But it would be naive to think that is the only cause.
Many would see the Labour Party as routed in the past; working class etc.
Any political party had to have a much wider appeal, especially in modern times.
And like it or not, that is what New Labour managed to do and win 3 consequitive elections.
 
Dobba said:
They've decided they're going to vote against now, because the bill has somehow changed since they were briefing abstention again.
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Thankfully. They have more likely just read the recent media coverage and decided that to abstain would be bad optics.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
My last strategy? What are you wittering about, do you mean the previous Labour strategy?

When did Labour lose Scotland? Can you see them winning an election without winning back Scotland?

Have you seen any recent surveys on the continued damaging impact that Labour taking Britain into an illegal war in Iraq has done?

When were those strategies implemented?

Have you reviewed Labour election results under Brown or Milliband?

How do you explain the recent plummeting of Starmers approval rating on YouGov? I suppose that is the previous strategies fault too?

Rewriting history to imply Labour's strategy under Corbyn is the main cause for Labour's woes is laughably incorrect. But expected from you.
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Do you think Corbyn's strategy was successful for Labour? Genuine question: would you have kept him on to have a third crack at a GE after that last rout?
 
Jippy said:
Do you think Corbyn's strategy was successful for Labour? Genuine question: would you have kept him on to have a third crack at a GE after that last rout?
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I think if Starmer had been true to his leadership pledges, which was to build on the previous policies, but work on the presentation, I would have continued to back Starmer. Just as I did at the beginning of his tenure, before he backtracked on nearly everything he had committed to.

I'm sick of politicians saying one thing to get into positions of power and then completely back tracking. From any party.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
I think if Starmer had been true to his leadership pledges, which was to build on the previous policies, but work on the presentation, I would have continued to back Starmer. Just as I did at the beginning of his tenure, before he backtracked on nearly everything he had committed to.

I'm sick of politicians saying one thing to get into positions of power and then completely back tracking. From any party.
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Agree completely. It's remarkable that just under a year in, Starmer has destroyed confidence in his leadership to such an extent that ditching him sooner rather than later is being so widely discussed.
That's probably one of the few positives of the next GE being so far away.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
I think if Starmer had been true to his leadership pledges, which was to build on the previous policies, but work on the presentation, I would have continued to back Starmer. Just as I did at the beginning of his tenure, before he backtracked on nearly everything he had committed to.

I'm sick of politicians saying one thing to get into positions of power and then completely back tracking. From any party.
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Without consequences for this backtracking, they'll keep doing it. The public needs to find ways to increase accountability.
 
[
711 said:
Who would everyone like to replace Starmer? I voted Nandy of last time's candidates, and I would again from the same list, but I would like someone better all the same. Burnham finishes his term as mayor of Manchester in May, could he come back, would the Caf want him? What say the Caf lefties, who would you want?
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I think Burnham is standing again for Manchester mayor

So short of David milliband coming back I don't see any natural challenger ... though no doubt Burgon will call on his comrades for a revolution at the next conference
 
711 said:
Who would everyone like to replace Starmer? I voted Nandy of last time's candidates, and I would again from the same list, but I would like someone better all the same. Burnham finishes his term as mayor of Manchester in May, could he come back, would the Caf want him? What say the Caf lefties, who would you want?
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I wouldn't mind Burnham, he's not quite as left leaning as I would like but he's principled, down to earth and fairly charismatic... traits our current leader hasn't even heard of.
 
It's a problem. The 'Labour Party' are still seeking an identity.. and Keir Starmer, simply does not exhibit the combination of skills required to attract support from wavering centre-ists, and the traditional labour districts and regions. Starmer is hesitant, and instills a sense of doubt. His record on Brexit policy was barmy, and you cannot win elections solely on quizzing BJ at PMQs. Simply abstaining on key issues shows a lack of leadership and commitment. You cannot do high-level politics by expediency. You have to connect with your party and people, and he struggles with this, whilst not really having a clear vision for what a 21st Century Labour Party needs to look like.

This is a really interesting read. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/14/conservatives-party-england-tories-populists
 
Jeffthered said:
It's a problem. The 'Labour Party' are still seeking an identity.. and Keir Starmer, simply does not exhibit the combination of skills required to attract support from wavering centre-ists, and the traditional labour districts and regions. Starmer is hesitant, and instills a sense of doubt. His record on Brexit policy was barmy, and you cannot win elections solely on quizzing BJ at PMQs. Simply abstaining on key issues shows a lack of leadership and commitment. You cannot do high-level politics by expediency. You have to connect with your party and people, and he struggles with this, whilst not really having a clear vision for what a 21st Century Labour Party needs to look like.

This is a really interesting read. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/14/conservatives-party-england-tories-populists
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Very difficult to do that for anybody right now when the news is 24/7 COVID - it has overshadowed everything and it makes it next to impossible for 'normal' politics to get any traction. If Labour are to find an identity it won't really make any impact till late summer at the earliest.
 
balaks said:
Very difficult to do that for anybody right now when the news is 24/7 COVID - it has overshadowed everything and it makes it next to impossible for 'normal' politics to get any traction. If Labour are to find an identity it won't really make any impact till late summer at the earliest.
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Even if that were true and I'd say it's only partly accurate, not having the policy platform is damaging itself as we're seeing on his polling. He needs to be offering something, set the scene for policy to come.

I just can't see Starmer being the one to redeem himself here. It's been said before in this thread but he needs to let his cabinet have some freedom because they might be the ones to grab people's attention.

Tories use their various levels of MP quite well. They've built the idea that MPs express their own opinions rather than it reflecting the leaders position. That means fringe groups can battle without harming the party and in fact they provide a contrast to make the LO seem sensible.
 
Smores said:
Even if that were true and I'd say it's only partly accurate, not having the policy platform is damaging itself as we're seeing on his polling. He needs to be offering something, set the scene for policy to come.

I just can't see Starmer being the one to redeem himself here. It's been said before in this thread but he needs to let his cabinet have some freedom because they might be the ones to grab people's attention.

Tories use their various levels of MP quite well. They've built the idea that MPs express their own opinions rather than it reflecting the leaders position. That means fringe groups can battle without harming the party and in fact they provide a contrast to make the LO seem sensible.
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That is a terrific and v important point. Jess Philips last week in the Commons is a good example. Labour do have some MPs who connect v well, Nandy, Thornberry (a great asset, but a clear threat to Kier..). But some others are just not hitting the spot.. Ashworth for example.

Tories have Patel, Hancock, Rishi.. all have a bit of the street-fighter about them. They almost enjoy having a tussle. I don't see that sense of drive, and freedom to create neccesary havoc amongst Labour. The appointments of Ed and Jeremy really have hurt Labour.

It's a shame the best politician (by some distance in my opinion..) across all parties, is the leader of the SNP. By no means perfect, but Sturgeon would walk the floor of anybody in Parliament, from both sides of the house.
 
Smores said:
Even if that were true and I'd say it's only partly accurate, not having the policy platform is damaging itself as we're seeing on his polling. He needs to be offering something, set the scene for policy to come.

I just can't see Starmer being the one to redeem himself here. It's been said before in this thread but he needs to let his cabinet have some freedom because they might be the ones to grab people's attention.

Tories use their various levels of MP quite well. They've built the idea that MPs express their own opinions rather than it reflecting the leaders position. That means fringe groups can battle without harming the party and in fact they provide a contrast to make the LO seem sensible.
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I don't think that works. The Tories get away with it because when they play happy families for a month in the build up to the election the media forget all the factional infighting.

Any exchange of ideas from Labour is dissected as weakness from the Leader, and proof that even Labour has no idea what it wants.
 
esmufc07 said:
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2019 election results

Labour...................................37.7% (-14.8)
Conservative.........................28.9% (-5.3)
Brexit party............................25.8% (+25.8)
Libs...........................................4.1% (+2.3%)

Looks like where the Brexit party votes go will be decisive

I wonder if Laurence Fox and/or Farrage might give it a go as there certainly seems to be a viable potential base there
 
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The plant....
 
Sweet Square said:
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It could be (a lot) worse
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/is-jeremy-corbyn-incompetent
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/is-jeremy-corbyn-likeable
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/is-jeremy-corbyn-decisive
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/is-jeremy-corbyn-strong-or-weak

though lets not forget that polls (especially you gov ones about labour) apparently dont mean anything... (people allegedly only post them to be annoying)

Sweet Square said:
We don't know that until the next election. Labour were top of the polls not to long ago. Current polling means jack shit at the moment, other than annoying certain people on twitter/forums (Which in fairness is does pass the day away and more productive than refreshing the transfers thread).
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Sweet Square said:
Polling means nothing at this stage.
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Sweet Square said:
In terms of Labour polling yougov are the outlier,
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sun_tzu said:
It could be (a lot) worse
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/is-jeremy-corbyn-incompetent
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/is-jeremy-corbyn-likeable
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/is-jeremy-corbyn-decisive
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/is-jeremy-corbyn-strong-or-weak

though lets not forget that polls (especially you gov ones about labour) apparently dont mean anything... (people allegedly only post them to be annoying)
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Yes, we all know the right wing media smear campaigns against Corbyn skewed public opinion. And we know you have been suckered in big time. I await your copy and pasting of Guido anti Corbyn tweets...

But that was not the only factor, to discount the fact that Brexit played a big part in that election result is missing the point. It was the Brexit election and Starmers policy failed.

Also, at least the public knew what Labour's position was back then. Now it is generally backing the government, making small criticisms/ tiny tweaks to Tory policy or fence sitting.
 
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