Kalidou Koulibaly | Signs new contract.

Status
Not open for further replies.
JJ-27 said:
I'll be honest, I've not seen Koulibaly play but I'm hearing a transfer price being thrown about of £100 million. Van Djik cost Liverpool £75 million, and is the same age. Is Koulibaly really £25 million better than Van Djik? And don't forget Van Djik had PL experience at Southampton. We've not done well recently buying CB's who don't have PL experience.
Click to expand...

We've not done well with buying in general, PL experience doesnt come into it.

Also just so you know, I wasnt able to quote you properly because "J K" was in my message :D and thats banned or something
 
Not seen much of him but he does look a unit of a player. I think we dropped a huge bollock by not signing Van Dijk when he was available so hopefully if these rumours are true he's an equal if not better player.
 
Surprised there hasn’t been any mention of the supposed 2nd bid of 91mil we’ve put in being rejected. Of course the source I saw was the mail which is regarded as filth but thought this would have had more of a buzz effect on the forum.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
Surprised there hasn’t been any mention of the supposed 2nd bid of 91mil we’ve put in being rejected. Of course the source I saw was the mail which is regarded as filth but thought this would have had more of a buzz effect on the forum.
Click to expand...
It's hardly been reported so I doubt it was true. 1 Source seems like pissing in the wind.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
Surprised there hasn’t been any mention of the supposed 2nd bid of 91mil we’ve put in being rejected. Of course the source I saw was the mail which is regarded as filth but thought this would have had more of a buzz effect on the forum.
Click to expand...
Original source is some Italian one that wasn't very reliable I believe. Either way, it seems more like Napoli trying to increase any potential fee they do get.
 
Vanya said:
I dont think thats completely accurate. IMO A lot of the improvement in the defensive organization of Madrid can also be attributed to Capello himself (compared to the inexperience of Luxemburgo), signings of multiple experienced and young defensive midfielders (emerson, diarra, gago) and a change in playing style which was a bit more conservative. But overall Madrid still conceded 40 goals in La Liga in Cannavaro's first season (06-07) the same as they did the previous season (05-06).

I do agree that ideally a ready made vocal organizer at the back is very useful. However, I don't think that its a predominant trait of many good CBs in the game today and its not absolutely necessary for a winning team (eg. at the moment Stones and Laporte look excellent, but neither could be described as a vocal organizer or leader yet). Some of the worlds best defenders are quiet characters and not really vocal organizers - like Varane or Godin , yet they would make any defense better.

Also, vocal leadership and organization is a trait that can be developed in certain players once they gain confidence eg. Pique (post Puyol's retirement).

Maybe Im echocing the sentiment of a few posters here, but I dont think our team would improve dramatically if we bought one top CB. I think defending is a team job and our central midfield is as culpable as our defense in giving away goals. I dont believe that the likes of Klopp and Guardiola are better defensive coaches than Mourinho and their defensive personnel arent world class players yet either (barring VVD and arguably Walker). However, their teams concede fewer goals than us. I think thats because of the ferocity and intensity with which the team tries to win the ball back. Their midfielders work hard and prevent their CBs from getting exposed. Our midfield cannot aid our defense in doing that - we have the most immobile/defensively disinterested CMs for that (Matic, Fellaini/Pogba). This is one of the reasons why we can never play with a high defensive line like Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and City do.

IMO we need to press and win the ball back rather than passively defending by blocking passing lanes. Moreover our forwards need to press better as well. The pressing of Lukaku and Martial is dire. When we change this, we will automatically improve our defense.

I do agree that we need an experienced defender and it would be great if that singing is a vocal organizer. But if we continue to not defend as a team, it wouldnt make much of a difference in the big games.
Click to expand...
So while the midfield helps in shielding a defence, a solid defence also lets the midfield be more aggressive and gamble more. One should not be neglected one for the other. A top team should not be found lacking in area of the pitch, otherwise soone or later that weakness will be exploited by others 9see liverpool recent struggles due to their limited midfield).

The quality of a defence is not always evident from stats e.g. LvG and Pep defenses look better than they really are cos they play a possession game that limits how often the defence is tested. Both are actually poor defensive coaches, and guardiola in particular simply throws money at it, having bought failures like Chygrynskiy, maxwell, caceres, and henrique.

If you have quality and experienced defenders, then yes it easier for them to figure it out on their own without anyone needing to be a clear leader in the sense, but when you have younger and less proven players, the presence of the leader makes a big difference.

At Madrid Cannavaro was playing alongside Marcelo, Ramos, and Pepe (all<25 back then), who were much younger and less experienced and thus his leadership and mentoring was crucial. We are currently buying younger and less proven defenders like Bailly, Lindelof, Dalot and Shaw, thus the need for an experienced leader. (Note, I think it is the right approach as it is cheaper and will likely produce a longer lasting group of defenders than spending more on finished products when the funds can be used in attack and midfield where talent is more relevant than experience)

If we are going to be buying young unproven defenders, we need to put in place an environment that would ensure they mature in the right direction and at the right pace, and not leave them to simply figure it out. Right now, that Smalling is our most experienced and possibly best defender does not bode well for the development of the younger ones.
 
There is no chance we bid £91m for him. These stories are similar to the crap about Savic.
 
Yeah and if we did bid 91m, you can bet your bottom dollar De Laurentis would have snapped our hand off.
 
We should not be allowed to spend any money whilst Jose is in charge and we have not at the minimum got a DoF in charge!
 
Andersons Dietician said:
Surprised there hasn’t been any mention of the supposed 2nd bid of 91mil we’ve put in being rejected. Of course the source I saw was the mail which is regarded as filth but thought this would have had more of a buzz effect on the forum.
Click to expand...
 
Andersons Dietician said:
Surprised there hasn’t been any mention of the supposed 2nd bid of 91mil we’ve put in being rejected. Of course the source I saw was the mail which is regarded as filth but thought this would have had more of a buzz effect on the forum.
Click to expand...
Its because it would go against the much pushed narrative that the Glazers are leeches and that the club/Ed does not want to back Mourinho.
 
We can't go wrong with him, he's been performing for years under different managers too, if Woodward has to back Jose to go after a CB he would be a perfect choice
 
Definitely think he is attainable, but De Laurentis is going to destroy Woodward and be publicly hilarious about it. In the end he will sell him but probably for an absolute obscene amount even by today’s standards.
 
manutddjw said:
Definitely think he is attainable, but De Laurentis is going to destroy Woodward and be publicly hilarious about it. In the end he will sell him but probably for an absolute obscene amount even by today’s standards.
Click to expand...

I think this is likely. The first 9 digit defender. UNless one of the Glazers steps in a vetoes such an expenditure.
 
RoyH1 said:
I think this is likely. The first 9 digit defender. UNless one of the Glazers steps in a vetoes such an expenditure.
Click to expand...

The only 9 digit defender expenditure that DOF Woodie would sanction is Varane.
 
it would be a joke to spend more than 50-60 millions for a CB. Koulibali is good but so are many others. Mourinho should start trying to get the best out of an already good team rather than chasing up other expensive players. Koulibali was a very average player on the brink of being sold our when Sarri arrived and improved him a lot. He had great physical ability but little tactical awareness (which still is his weak point) but Sarri worked on him and Albiol making them the second best defense in Italy. Now he is certainly worth more but the price I hear is just a ridiculous way to spend the club's money
 
A bunch of 'Woodwardites' in this post. Why does it matter to you how much we spend? Is that extra 10 million getting shared to you as a dividend? Or is it going to the Glazers. Jose has to go thats for sure. But we need a DOF and we need players with top quality ready for our new manager whoever that is. Koulibaly would be a top signing even for 80million.
 
cheeky_backheel said:
So while the midfield helps in shielding a defence, a solid defence also lets the midfield be more aggressive and gamble more. One should not be neglected one for the other. A top team should not be found lacking in area of the pitch, otherwise soone or later that weakness will be exploited by others 9see liverpool recent struggles due to their limited midfield).

The quality of a defence is not always evident from stats e.g. LvG and Pep defenses look better than they really are cos they play a possession game that limits how often the defence is tested. Both are actually poor defensive coaches, and guardiola in particular simply throws money at it, having bought failures like Chygrynskiy, maxwell, caceres, and henrique.

If you have quality and experienced defenders, then yes it easier for them to figure it out on their own without anyone needing to be a clear leader in the sense, but when you have younger and less proven players, the presence of the leader makes a big difference.

At Madrid Cannavaro was playing alongside Marcelo, Ramos, and Pepe (all<25 back then), who were much younger and less experienced and thus his leadership and mentoring was crucial. We are currently buying younger and less proven defenders like Bailly, Lindelof, Dalot and Shaw, thus the need for an experienced leader. (Note, I think it is the right approach as it is cheaper and will likely produce a longer lasting group of defenders than spending more on finished products when the funds can be used in attack and midfield where talent is more relevant than experience)

If we are going to be buying young unproven defenders, we need to put in place an environment that would ensure they mature in the right direction and at the right pace, and not leave them to simply figure it out. Right now, that Smalling is our most experienced and possibly best defender does not bode well for the development of the younger ones.
Click to expand...
Great post!

Also one of my concern is, how can people be so sure that we need to bring in only Koulibaly and not the whole pair? Remember Matt Hummels back in Dortmund days? People here were raving about him as the exact antidote for United backline in Moyes's days. Turns out Hummels needs his mate Subotic also to do all the running for himself. Would that be the same case with Koulibaly?
 
B&Wandmore said:
it would be a joke to spend more than 50-60 millions for a CB. Koulibali is good but so are many others. Mourinho should start trying to get the best out of an already good team rather than chasing up other expensive players. Koulibali was a very average player on the brink of being sold our when Sarri arrived and improved him a lot. He had great physical ability but little tactical awareness (which still is his weak point) but Sarri worked on him and Albiol making them the second best defense in Italy. Now he is certainly worth more but the price I hear is just a ridiculous way to spend the club's money
Click to expand...
Couldn't agree more

If we want the club to go in the right direction then we must not spend £100m on a single player especially a CB. We have to spend wisely in three or four positions and learn from our mistakes. Hopefully we get someone like Mitchell or Monchi to evaluate and oversee the operation.
 
This ain't going to happen.

Plus we'll be in Europa lge next season.
 
B&Wandmore said:
it would be a joke to spend more than 50-60 millions for a CB. Koulibali is good but so are many others. Mourinho should start trying to get the best out of an already good team rather than chasing up other expensive players. Koulibali was a very average player on the brink of being sold our when Sarri arrived and improved him a lot. He had great physical ability but little tactical awareness (which still is his weak point) but Sarri worked on him and Albiol making them the second best defense in Italy. Now he is certainly worth more but the price I hear is just a ridiculous way to spend the club's money
Click to expand...
But you’re not going to get a CB of this level for 50-60 million. Leicester wanted £65m for Maguire, Spurs supposedly requested Martial and/or Mata in some sort of swap deal equalling that sort of figure for Alderweireld, and Boateng was rumoured at £45m despite having such a poor season.
 
JK-27 said:
I'll be honest, I've not seen Koulibaly play but I'm hearing a transfer price being thrown about of £100 million. Van Djik cost Liverpool £75 million, and is the same age. Is Koulibaly really £25 million better than Van Djik? And don't forget Van Djik had PL experience at Southampton. We've not done well recently buying CB's who don't have PL experience.
Click to expand...

not sure if
DWelbz19 said:
But you’re not going to get a CB of this level for 50-60 million. Leicester wanted £65m for Maguire, Spurs supposedly requested Martial and/or Mata in some sort of swap deal equalling that sort of figure for Alderweireld, and Boateng was rumoured at £45m despite having such a poor season.
Click to expand...

you do not need to get a CB from a PL team, there is plenty of talent available for 40-50 million. Manolas to make an example has a buy clause of 35M Euros. In Bundesliga there are quite good CB. Spending 100 for a cb is an idiotic thing to do and it is a lazy way of building a team
 
Let's not buy Koulibaly for 100m. Let's go and buy another hot doubtful prospect for 20-30m then spend the season slaughtering him and whoever buys him while watching our rivals splashing +70 on defenders.
 
endless_wheelies said:
Guess everyone ITT is hoping Liverpool beat Napoli so we can sign him in January.
Click to expand...
Nope, I'd rather Napoli knock out Liverpool even if it means we miss out on Koulibaly as a result of it (which imo isn't necessarily related). I think Napoli will either sell or won't depending on the price.
 
el3mel said:
Let's not buy Koulibaly for 100m. Let's go and buy another hot doubtful prospect for 20-30m then spend the season slaughtering him and whoever buys him while watching our rivals splashing +70 on defenders.
Click to expand...
Let's buy Koulibali for a £100m and then complain we don't have a long term plan.
 
Adnan said:
Let's buy Koulibali for a £100m and then complain we don't have a long term plan.
Click to expand...

Koulibali is a long term plan. Still only 27 years and top 5 best defenders in the world. Will give us minimum 7 years as defenders last longer than other positions.

But why do we do this, we're treating the club's money as ours after all. Let's not buy him, let's go and buy some young prospects and save the money for Glazers' pocket instead. They need it more than the team.
 
sam147 said:
A bunch of 'Woodwardites' in this post. Why does it matter to you how much we spend? Is that extra 10 million getting shared to you as a dividend? Or is it going to the Glazers. Jose has to go thats for sure. But we need a DOF and we need players with top quality ready for our new manager whoever that is. Koulibaly would be a top signing even for 80million.
Click to expand...

Really pisses me off when fans are talking about the extra 15-20 million. Why the feck are fighting to save the glazers some more Money? It's not like they will lower your ticket prices or pay better wages to the staff if they have more money
 
Koulibaly, Smalling, Bailly, Lindelöf and Tuanzebe looks like a great set of CBs. Sell Jones ans Rojo and move on to fullbacks and midfield targets
 
izec said:
Koulibaly, Smalling, Bailly, Lindelöf and Tuanzebe looks like a great set of CBs. Sell Jones ans Rojo and move on to fullbacks and midfield targets
Click to expand...
Think we would be another top class CB short.

Ideally:

Koulibaly
New CB
Smalling
Lindelof

Tuanzebe would likely go out on loan again,hopefully to a PL club if he doesn't come up with Villa.

Ditch Jones because he's rarely consistently fit.
Ditch Rojo because he's just mindless trash.
Undecided on Baily.
 
  • Like
Reactions: golden_blunder
endless_wheelies said:
Guess everyone ITT is hoping Liverpool beat Napoli so we can sign him in January.
Click to expand...

De Laurentis will never sell him in January even if they crash out of CL, they will still be competitive for the EL and for the league and Napoli does not need the money. I would still love them to go out of the CL though :devil:
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.