Sancho fixes more problems than Havertz does. If it's one or the other I'd say go for Sancho.
Kai Havertz
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I watched him against Rangers, He was absolutely mint.
So you are honestly telling me that Falcao and Di Maria were, in your opinion, lesser talents back then, compared to Werner and Havertz?
If so, let's agree to strongly disagree and leave it at that.
As for buying top talent you don't need.... Well, that's maybe something that teams at the very top of the football pyramid can afford to do (Real, Bayern, Barcelona, PSG, maybe City) but it is a luxury neither us nor Chelsea are in position to do right now.
If you have a top talent on the bench of a team not winning the highest honours in sport, they will soon leave for greener pastures. We're talking about players who can have their pick of top teams to play for. You can be dead certain they have received very solid reassurances they will play more often than not.
If you can sign him, then you sign him. He is too good to not go for him now. He will be a world class player if he stays fit.
Sign Havertz now and Sancho next year. Sell Pogba next year (if he wants to leave).
Mata, Pereira and Lingard should be booted out pretty soon anyway, which leaves plenty of space for some proper competition.
Sign Havertz now and Sancho next year. Sell Pogba next year (if he wants to leave).
Mata, Pereira and Lingard should be booted out pretty soon anyway, which leaves plenty of space for some proper competition.
The case for Havertz, and I'm not saying it's right despite my love for him, is that he could start this year as a false 9 (brilliant there lately with Volland out) and then replace Pogba after one last season then we buy uh, Sancho or another RW or a 9 if it turns out Greenwood has passed Martial and is better on the right than up top.
Martial-Havertz-Rashford
-------Pogba---Bruno----------
-----------------DM------------------
then after Pogba goes:
Rashford-Martial-Greenwood
-------Havertz---Bruno----------
-----------------DM------------------
My basic view is that either would be a great signing and if we can secure one do that even it means overpaying. I doubt we'll be able to get the 2nd and 3rd highest rated young players in world football (Mbappe number one let's say) to agree to join us anyways, but if we can then do that it's worth just relying on youth elsewhere to fill gaps, maybe with a cheap left-footed LB signing (or even some janky loan or some weird swap with Henderson, Pereira, Lingard or Jones going to some team with 2 left backs but holes elsewhere) if there's no money left.
If we signed Sancho and Havertz this summer and Pogba went to Madrid and we get back the money to pay for 80% of one of Sancho or Havertz and spend the whole transfer kitty on the other that would be good long-term business for us considering Pogba presumably wanting to go and we'd have a proper feck off front 6 with their best years ahead of them:
Rashford-Martial-Sancho
---------Havertz-Bruno--------
------------------Fred--------
is just a fecking great front 6 with Greenwood, James and McTominay covering damn near all of the minutes left, and everyone but Fred is 24 and under.
If we sell Pogba, Havertz would be at the top of my list of desirables. If we don't sell Pogba, then we have no particular use for him.
Either way, this should have no impact whatsoever on our search for a RW and our pursuit of Sancho.
Either way, this should have no impact whatsoever on our search for a RW and our pursuit of Sancho.
From a hugely reliable ITK on another site..
The chelsea line matches with the reports weve given up on sancho and are looking to havertz.
All bases covered: check.
The best Germans just don't go anywhere else but Bayern if they want you, it's that simple.
Who ?
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Literally says nothing here?
You think so? I'd say there are fare too many examples of the contrary to assume that, especially for the best German players.
Such as?
Sané and Özil? I‘d somewhat count KdB as well.
As I said, depends if they wanted them.
I can't say for sure but Bayern had Ribery/Robben at that point, and Bayern played a 4-3-3 so didn't need Ozil (Madrid are no smucks anyway)
The point is usually if it's a case of staying in Germany or leaving, they usually stay. I think if Havertz had a clear option of Bayern he'd choose them.
It's more complicated now than before with Bayern's hold on the BL best players. Bayern had a much better free hand on BL talents in the 00s since the league was in general decline and therefore the biggest clubs outside of Germany didn't want to sign BL players.
That has changed now with the BL improving to become the 3rd best league, above Serie A for me, and the national team also doing well. The BL attracts attention from the biggest clubs in Europe and therefore Bayern have more competition in signing players.
Bayern very clearly wanted Sane while he was at Schalke but were simply priced out by City, that was the same case for KdB as well. KdB openly stated he would prefer to go to Bayern but Bayern weren't able to negotiate a price with Wolfsburg (because of how much City were offering). Dortmund too have presented a consistent opposition to Bayern, previously, throught the 00s, you would have teams flirt with being a 2nd power but faltering after a few seasons (Dortmund, Bremen, Schalke, Stuttgart, Wolfsburg). Reus surprised many when he decided to join Dortmund from Gladbach and that seemed to signal a shift in balance in power, alas Bayern pulled their Gotze card and snuffed that.
Bayern have realized this now. They were far too comfortable in the market, either unwilling to pay larger amounts or thinking they had a hold in the BL, and now know they would need to pay large amounts to get the best players in the BL, something they didn't have to do before.
I know, it’s feckin boring, who the feck wants to have their career dictated to them with only one inevitable outcome.
It’s like they have some dark power over them “Move to Bayern! These are your orders... orders that must be obeyed!” In my best Basil Fawlty impression
Isn't this the norm for the best clubs in their respective countries? Barcelona and Real Madrid always have the best Spanish players. We used to have the best English players. And Italians don't want to leave Italy
Well yes, but people seem to be in denial about this - especially Chelsea fans on twitter
Obviously Bayern can't have everybody but usually they get first pickings it's just the way it is. They currently have a pretty large Havertz shaped whole in their squad with Coutinho leaving also.
Havertz basically plays Müller‘s role. They are very different players, but with Lewy, 2 wingers and Thiago plus Kimmich in midfield that is the spot he would be taking. So not really a hole and Müller is amazing again this season.
Well it would help your argument, so you would, wouldn’t you?
Although feck knows why you would randomly decide to count a Belgian, of whom far more of their top players play in the PL than the BL, and who had himself already played in the PL!Well each to their own. There was a ton of information there to my mind, but just passed it on in case anyone was interested, especially as there was some United stuff in there too. The guy works in football transfers (not sure as what exactly) and he’s been sharing in depth info on the transfer market for many years.
It wouldn't really be a shock if he ended up at Bayern . Whoever gets him is getting a future star if the game imo.
Sane didn't go there because they had Ribery and Robben at the time. Surprise Surprise they are in for Sane.
They were in for Werner but he got pissed off with Bayern on their handling of the transfer.
They literally bully every German club into getting the best talent.
Yeah, but how many years does Muller have left in him ? Would be the perfect timing to bring in Havertz to learn from him and phase him in in my opinion.
Ofcourse, Havertz wants playtime, but they are talking about loaning him back the first year.
The last German players they signed: Nübel, Arp, Goretzka, Süle, Gnabry and Rudy. Nothing particularly impressive apart from maybe Süle (Gnabry's development was a positive suprise for basically everyone). It's not like those were signings everybody in Germany begrudged. Decent players, nothing special. Meanwhile Sane went to City, Werner will go to Chelsea, Havertz will probably not end up at them and so forth. Of course they're still very, very attractive for German players but the past generation sort of warmed up to playing abroad. Ballack and Kroos even left the FC Bayern against the will of the club and Kroos in particular wasn't too fond of it and it's officials afterwards.
Back in the day Bayern's team was basically a Bundesliga all-star squad with them buying more or less all the best players from competitors. Nowadays more and more young players prefer to move to top clubs in different countries, not only German ones. I mean, 15 years ago it would've been clear that Sancho and Havertz would now end up at Bayern, the same would've been true for de Bruyne, Dembele and Sane. That has definitely changed. Globalisation says hi.
It’s about Bayern allegedly being in the position to sign every successful Bundesliga player. And Bayern did want Sané and KdB but was outspent.Well it would help your argument, so you would, wouldn’t you?
And if you focus purely on German players, their best starting lineup would probably be:
Lewandowski
Gnabry Müller Coman
Thiago Kimmich
Davies Alaba Süle Parvard
Neuer
5 Germans. 1 from their academy, Bremen, Stuttgart, Hoffenheim and Schalke each.
The others? 2 from the Bundesliga, 1 from Juve, 1 from Barca, 1 from Canada and 1 from their academy.
Muller has been playing right wing
They could have signed Werner if they wanted - chose not to as Lewandowski is frankly twice the player.
Obviously at that time City were blowing everybody away with their money but that's not really Bayerns fault, and funnily enough Sane is NOW joining them?
Well he said German players specifically. For non-Germans, it stands to reason that they do not necessarily dream of playing for Bayern Munich over a Real Madrid, Chelsea or wherever. Germany hasn’t been in the top two leagues for as long as I can remember. There will always be players who are not from Germany who want to go elsewhere, especially an English player who wants to go to England, like Sancho. Reading this thread I’ve seen it said that if it were the ‘good old days’, Sancho would go to Bayern. I don’t see that, he’d always be odds on to go to the PL rather than spend his prime in the Bundesliga.
What have Gnabry, Perisic and Coman been doing lately? What were Ribery and Robben doing?
Müller can play on the wing, but he is better centrally and that is where he has been playing the vast, vast majority of games. He is a second striker behind Lewandowski.
i absolutey agree. that is also why there are no rumors of him going to Bayern besides the lazy name dropping.
Gnabry plays left, Coman and Perisic on the bench. Sometimes Coman plays on the right and Muller through the middle.
The point is Bayern can happily fit Havertz into their side - and I expect them to make him their number 10 for the forseeable future.
This is wrong. Müllers plays centrally.
If they play a 4-2-3-1 yes, 4-3-3 he plays on the right. All depends on Coman's fitness also.
Anyway that really isn't the point, out of those players it's likely Havertz drops into the 10 and Muller either stays on the right or drops out.
Bayern can EASILY make room for him.
Don't get me wrong, but that's bull shit. They did want Sane and it was a very logical signing for both parties since Ribery and Robben were already quite old in 2016. But Sané went to City. He chose Guardiola, the bigger league and at that time a club with a better perspective. You can add Gündogan to that as well.
So yeah, Bayern is still very attractive, especially for German players, but it's not a no brainer any longer to go there if they are interested. A player good enough to go be a star at Madrid or Barcelona will most likely choose them over Munich, even German ones.
I generally agree with you but until around 15 years ago a lot of "foreign" players in the Bundesliga indeed did go to Bayern. Ze Roberto, Lucio, van Buyten, Pizarro, the Kovacs, etc. But I think the main reason for that was that the Bundesliga was farther away from the EPL, La Liga and Serie A back then than it is today so even the best Bundesliga players weren't really that interesting for international top clubs so Bayern was a logical step. There were no talents like Havertz, Sancho or Götze in the mid 2000s.
I will stop replying since you obviously know more about Müller‘s positioning than me, who has been watching 95% of Bayerns games Over the last 20 years.
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