Justin Kluivert| Signs with AS Roma

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This kid needs to figure out what's best for his development, he isn't ready for the premier league.
 
pascell said:
Ah yeah I saw he'd moved to Lille, not a bad place to continue his development.

I remember Kishna being highly touted also, as well as Tony Vilhena (spelling might be wrong?) What about Richairo Zivkovic?
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Vilhena actually dumped Raiola (after an incident where then Feyenoord coach Ronald Koeman prevented Vilhena from taking a penalty during a match, and Raiola later publicly threatened to bring Tony to another club if Koeman would humiliate his player again). He then chose to stay at Feyenoord which has been great for his development, won the league there last year and played Champions League, started scoring this seasonn Now that guy is ready to take a gamble and move to a foreign club. If it doesn't work out, his development wont be hindered because he's played so much already. Followed a much better career trajectory than the guys who listened to Raiola I think.

Kisnha had crooked knees and cartilage problems in his youth, spending half a year in a wheel chair at one point. He was trickery and showed some good finesse, but Lazio Roma was always mission impossible, now he's at a mid table Dutch club.

Zivkovic is like the Dutch Ravel Morrison. When he made his debut for Groningen he seemed like an enormous prospect, very pacy forward. One of the very few 17 year olds who scored >10 goals in a season in the Eredivisie, he might be the youngest player ever to accomplish this.

Ajax signed him, but they felt he wasn't taking things seriously in training and let him play with the second team (who like Barca and Real B play in the Dutch second professional league against the first teams of smaller clubs) where he scored a shiteload of goals. But still they weren't happy with his mentality, loaned him out to Utrecht where again he was accused of bad mentality. They've sold him to some Belgian club last year, from what I understand that guy focuses on everything but football. Though in the last months he finally seems to have scored some goals for Oostende and he's still young. Biggest waste of talent I've seen in recent years though.
 
Henrik Larsson said:
Vilhena actually dumped Raiola (after an incident where then Feyenoord coach Ronald Koeman prevented Vilhena from taking a penalty during a match, and Raiola later publicly threatened to bring Tony to another club if Koeman would humiliate his player again). He then chose to stay at Feyenoord which has been great for his development, won the league there last year and played Champions League, started scoring this seasonn Now that guy is ready to take a gamble and move to a foreign club. If it doesn't work out, his development wont be hindered because he's played so much already. Followed a much better career trajectory than the guys who listened to Raiola I think.

Kisnha had crooked knees and cartilage problems in his youth, spending half a year in a wheel chair at one point. He was trickery and showed some good finesse, but Lazio Roma was always mission impossible, now he's at a mid table Dutch club.

Zivkovic is like the Dutch Ravel Morrison. When he made his debut for Groningen he seemed like an enormous prospect, very pacy forward. One of the very few 17 year olds who scored >10 goals in a season in the Eredivisie, he might be the youngest player ever to accomplish this.

Ajax signed him, but they felt he wasn't taking things seriously in training and let him play with the second team (who like Barca and Real B play in the Dutch second professional league against the first teams of smaller clubs) where he scored a shiteload of goals. But still they weren't happy with his mentality, loaned him out to Utrecht where again he was accused of bad mentality. They've sold him to some Belgian club last year, from what I understand that guy focuses on everything but football. Though in the last months he finally seems to have scored some goals for Oostende and he's still young. Biggest waste of talent I've seen in recent years though.
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Great bit of info, thank you! Shame about Kishna spending so much time in a wheelchair, sounds quite serious for a professional footballer.

I thought Zivkovic would go onto become an amazing striker, he still could mind, but I've heard a few times over the past couple of years, he has a poor mentality.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
And Gregory Van Der Wiel had similar comments about Ajax years ago.
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Well then at least Raiola is consistent with his stories.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
how is that different from what I said? Ajax wanted to sale him to Spurs without consulting him as to whether he even wanted such a move in the first place. If he wanted to move to Spurs he'd never have been pissed
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Nah Ajax in fact didn't want to sell him, turning down an offer that Spurs made (without consulting him I guess).
 
Ajaxsuarez said:
Well then at least Raiola is consistent with his stories.



Nah Ajax in fact didn't want to sell him, turning down an offer that Spurs made (without consulting him I guess).
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https://www.redcafe.net/threads/tra...-window-now-open.438646/page-18#post-22548235

By the wording of that, it's more likely it's Kluivert side who turned down the move when they finally being let to know.

Edit: I meant make no sense for Tottenham to specifically say they want him after 2 years when it's the same time his contract run out! It sounds as Tottenham wanted to purchase Justin then loan back to Ajax as way to sweeten the deal. Ajax attempted to renew the contract to get the upper hand in negotiation, but somehow Raiola caught the wind, which points toward Ajax gave Tottenham permission to talk to the player and his agent.
 
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ti vu said:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/tra...-window-now-open.438646/page-18#post-22548235

By the wording of that, it's more likely it's Kluivert side who turned down the move when they finally being let to know.
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The tweet's wording is misleading, if you actually click on the link (Sportwitness not being the best for this in the first place) you'd see the actual quote by Ajax (or Overmars specifically)

"Ajax have provided Volkstrant with a written response to the Tottenham claims: ‘In the conversations with Spurs about Sanchez there was a lateral discussion about Justin. Spurs’ proposal was that he would then play in Amsterdam for another two years and that he would then go to Spurs. We did not go further on that, because we wanted to renew the contract with Justin. Just like we want to now.’"

Edit: I meant make no sense for Tottenham to specifically say they want him after 2 years when it's the same time his contract run out! It sounds as Tottenham wanted to purchase Justin then loan back to Ajax as way to sweeten the deal. Ajax attempted to renew the contract to get the upper hand in negotiation, but somehow Raiola caught the wind, which points toward Ajax gave Tottenham permission to talk to the player and his agent.
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Or it sounds like Spurs tried to leverage Kluivert's short contract (last summer was the first time Kluivert was legally able to sign an adult contract anyway), and Ajax refused because they had no intention of a) actually losing Kluivert two years later and b) had no reason to let Spurs take advantage of the situation anyway.

Also how would signing away a young talent by the time he turns 20 sweeten the deal whatsoever?
 
Ajaxsuarez said:
The tweet's wording is misleading, if you actually click on the link (Sportwitness not being the best for this in the first place) you'd see the actual quote by Ajax (or Overmars specifically)

"Ajax have provided Volkstrant with a written response to the Tottenham claims: ‘In the conversations with Spurs about Sanchez there was a lateral discussion about Justin. Spurs’ proposal was that he would then play in Amsterdam for another two years and that he would then go to Spurs. We did not go further on that, because we wanted to renew the contract with Justin. Just like we want to now.’"



Or it sounds like Spurs tried to leverage Kluivert's short contract (last summer was the first time Kluivert was legally able to sign an adult contract anyway), and Ajax refused because they had no intention of a) actually losing Kluivert two years later and b) had no reason to let Spurs take advantage of the situation anyway.

Also how would signing away a young talent by the time he turns 20 sweeten the deal whatsoever?
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I read the quote and my previous quote and the whole 2 year proposal was being questioned in my previous post. Made no sense for Tottenham to rub in Ajax's face they want Justin for free :confused:

I meant it read as Tottenham wants to sign Justin then loan him back. Basically Ajax has the money in the pocket and still has the player.

From Justin' interview, it indicated he was let know through his agent which in case Ajax outright turned down the talk with Tottenham, then there should be no involvement for Justin. I doubt negotiators are dumb enough to inform the other side that there is an offer for them from another club! For Justin's side to caught the wind, it's more the case, the whole got to somewhere which requires player and his agent's attention.
 
Apparently Raiola went to a befriended journo and asked if Kluivert could give an interview.

That interview has been posted here somewhere above, criticizing alot of things.
Raiola using Kluivert aa a mouthpiece to get what he wants.
 
If it's true that Martial is going then I'd love Kluivert or Sessengon.
 
The kid needs to fire his agent, settle down learn his trade properly and forget about leaving Holland for 4 years.

He's not ready for a top tier league, he's not even that dominant in Holland.

A move now is just a quick pay day for the hanger-ons, but it's career suicide for the boy.
 
foolsgold said:
The kid needs to fire his agent, settle down learn his trade properly and forget about leaving Holland for 4 years.

He's not ready for a top tier league, he's not even that dominant in Holland.

A move now is just a quick pay day for the hanger-ons, but it's career suicide for the boy.
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I'd even go a step further and say he's not been dominant in the dutch league at all so far.
He's a talented youngster. He obviously has a lot of potential and plays well - for his age! But so far he only really performs against the bottom half of the table (while I don't really like simply using goals + assists to meassure performance it does tell something that out of his 10 goals and 5 assists only 1 goal and 1 assists were against the top 10 teams of the league). Which is fine considering he only just turned 19 but the whole idea that he's "outgrown" the league is a bit bizarre as long as teams like ADO, Utrecht, Vitesse or Heerenveen can easily keep him quiet.

Of course a move can still work out, you never know. It's not like other clubs don't work with youngsters. But he certainly could stay here for longer and it wouldn't stop his progression.
 
He apparently got to an agreement with AS Roma.
 
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Watched his youtube video, appear to be a one trick pony. Although he has good first touch, but he lacks variety in his skills. Always shoot to goalkeeper right.
 
Terrible move for him. Never going to make it there unless he gets loaned out.
 
I rate him. Dont know why people think its a bad move. He is talented and will learn a different tactical culture.

Also there are players that you see even if they aren't generational talents, they have a flexible nature, are not only specialists in two or three skills and have a lot of potential to grow. When we watch those young players we need to project what they can be molded to be, more than their current level.
 
Really don't see him doing well in the Serie A. It has been a graveyard for Dutch players in the past. Not beyond recovery but I'd be shocked if this is actually good for his development. In any case - happy he is not coming here (yet)
 
Redplane said:
Really don't see him doing well in the Serie A. It has been a graveyard for Dutch players in the past. Not beyond recovery but I'd be shocked if this is actually good for his development. In any case - happy he is not coming here (yet)
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Really?

Marco Van Basten
Frank Rijkaard
Ruud Gullit
Clarence Seedorf
Ruud Krol
Wesley Sneijder
Edgar Davids
Wim Jonk
Aaron Winter
Jaap Stam

nowdays Stefan De Vrij could be a decent prospect but is too soon to judge.

Between the great dutch players of the past that have made the Serie A experience only Bergkamp (even though he won the only international trophie of his career there), Kluivert (father) and Van Der Saar have flopped big time, so the more tactical strictness and a more physical football like Serie A might help them to complete their process of growth definitely.
 
It's done.

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