Jurriën Timber | Arsenal player

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bosskeano said:
I've only seen him play CB for Ajax and that's where i would play him....i just think it's foolish to overlook a player at CB b/c he's only 5'10 and insist on guys who are 6'2/6'3 at CB. The smaller guy might be better in every other aspect of football other than winning aerial duels and i'd much prefer to have the pace, quickness and ability on the ball. FFS...if it's an issue with crosses, push the damn outside backs why and stop the delivery. That's a much easier tactical fix than getting beat for pace or sturggling to build out of the back.
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I really don't understand this. Short players don't have a monopoly on pace and ability on the ball. You can have both aerial prowess and other qualities. Other elite teams have centre backs with both. It's not one or the other, you don't have to compromise, you only have to compromise if you choose to compromise by buying centre backs with major weaknesses.

Let's ask this. How many premier league sides consistently start with a 5'10 centre back? In a back 4? Why not? Why don't they just all start short centre backs and stop the crosses instead? Because you can't control everything in football, your centre backs are going to be forced to win aerial duels through long balls, crosses and set pieces, it's unavoidable. That's why managers play tall players at centre back.
 
Dominos said:
I really don't understand this. Short players don't have a monopoly on pace and ability on the ball. You can have both aerial prowess and other qualities. Other elite teams have centre backs with both. It's not one or the other, you don't have to compromise, you only have to compromise if you choose to compromise by buying centre backs with major weaknesses.
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Except compromising (the way you're describing it) isn't properly capturing the gradient of their abilities. You're just saying that players can be tall and be good on the ball, but you're not describing the difference in their ball playing ability.

What others are telling you is that there is a difference in their ball playing ability that isn't just reflected equally as "good on the ball."
 
Seriously, why is he not a DM?
 
I have no issue with his height honestly. Not every PL strikers are like Chris Wood anyway. During set pieces he didn’t need to mark the tallest CB. We have Maguire or Varane next to him to win the header. If he’s important for our build up play in ETH system then I’m for it to sign him as our CB.
 
In Rainbows said:
Except compromising (the way you're describing it) isn't properly capturing the gradient of their abilities. You're just saying that players can be tall and be good on the ball, but you're not describing the difference in their ball playing ability.

What others are telling you is that there is a difference in their ball playing ability that isn't just reflected equally as "good on the ball."
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Gradient of their abilities also holds true the other way, no? A player can be both more aerially dominant, and faster, and better on the ball than the shorter player. In which case the shorter player has no advantages.

Is this guy significantly better on the ball than Liverpool's centre backs, such that their overall team would be stronger if he started for them? That they'd be willing to sacrifice the physical and aerial dominance of VVD, Konate and Matip in favour of having a player marginally better on the ball?

Is it not possible there's a very good reason that we're struggling to name 1 premier league team that consistently starts a 5'10 centre back? Are all the managers in the premier league complete footballing dinosaurs stuck in the 90s? Even Klopp?
 
WR10 said:
Seriously, why is he not a DM?
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Eh ? Because he is not a midfielder ? Just because a defender is good at tackling, passing and defensive parts of the game, why do people assume he can be a good DM too? I have seen this suggestion so many times. It’s literally a completely different and specialist position that very few players can make the transition to. If it was that easy every decent defender would be a class DM. Forget about the switching the roles from CB to DM, you can see the difficulties just by switching the position of a cb from rcb to lcb. Other than Rice I can’t think of any good DM today making that switch from CB.
 
Well Ramos is only 2 inch taller, he isnt too bad as CB though. Dont see 1-2 inch shorter is a big deal..
 
Signing this player signifies a intent to play a attacking brand of football with a real identity. The player's ability on the ball in conjunction with his recovery pace and intense play style should be welcomed. Timber is a player that is developing into a player that is strong with the game being played in-front of him, as well as the game being played behind him.

As far as a lack of aerial ability is concerned, there's ways to improve upon that as well for the player, considering he's still 20 years old.

But what we can do for now is to potentially add a proactive goalkeeper and a defensively minded midfielder who can aid the CBs against aerial threats in different phases of play.
 
Dominos said:
Gradient of their abilities also holds true the other way, no? A player can be both more aerially dominant, and faster, and better on the ball than the shorter player. In which case the shorter player has no advantages.

Is this guy significantly better on the ball than Liverpool's centre backs, such that their overall team would be stronger if he started for them? That they'd be willing to sacrifice the physical and aerial dominance of VVD, Konate and Matip in favour of having a player marginally better on the ball?

Is it not possible there's a very good reason that we're struggling to name 1 premier league team that consistently starts a 5'10 centre back? Are all the managers in the premier league complete footballing dinosaurs stuck in the 90s? Even Klopp?
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That would depend on the team the manager wants to create. Timber could be more beneficial for another manager's tactics, assuming he reaches a similar level of performance as the others (in terms of their standing within the game). There is nothing that says there is only a certain level of ability the player needs to be at in terms of ball playing ability, and anything extra is just diminishing returns.

The question will always be as you stated if that is worth losing a couple of inches in height? He would be our best ball playing CB, and be at least top 2 in speed. I know I would take his profile of player over Maguire's in Ten Hag's system because he's faster and would help out more in regards to keeping the ball. Maguire's aerial ability wouldn't edge it out for me.

And I also think what I just said is an incomplete analysis. It would also depend on the rest of the team. If we have taller players in other positions so that on set pieces, we still retain the same amount of tall players, then the whole discussion is moot. Maybe other players have superior creativity from deep which further muddies the ball playing discussion?

I would need to watch him more, but just on a general discussion on the profile of the player, I have nothing against his type of CB. That others aren't his height could be due to many things. Do they shuffle players his height around to certain positions in the youth system? Similarly, do they do that with players who have his type of ball playing ability? It's not as simple as simply looking at the number of first team players' heights. The only task managers have is to pick the best CB available within their system, or from somewhere gettable (via transfer). That CB's are usually taller doesn't automatically mean it came out to be as an optimization of the CB position and managers picking them out for their starting 11 is an automatic extension of that. The game is always changing, and what was traditionally thought of as the best doesn't mean it's the best in the future.
 
BlahRules said:
Blind is 1.8m and Timber is 1.79m. There is not much difference in height and Blind didn't struggle playing as a CB and players like Lukaku didn't even dominate him.

Timber has pace and physicality which Blind didn't have. I am sure he will be fine.

I remember Evra was winning headers against tall players with ease. It's all leap and able to judge the ball when attacking it in the air.
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While Rio was losing headers against smaller players. Height is overrated
 
Adnan said:
Signing this player signifies a intent to play a attacking brand of football with a real identity. The player's ability on the ball in conjunction with his recovery pace and intense play style should be welcomed. Timber is a player that is developing into a player that is strong with the game being played in-front of him, as well as the game being played behind him.

As far as a lack of aerial ability is concerned, there's ways to improve upon that as well for the player, considering he's still 20 years old.

But what we can do for now is to potentially add a proactive goalkeeper and a defensively minded midfielder who can aid the CBs against aerial threats in different phases of play.
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This is the important thing. We can’t just pop a guy like Timber in and expect our defence to miraculously improve when experienced internationals, including Varane, are looking like non-leaguers every week in the same back line. We need to develop the defensive structure throughout the team, get our wingers tracking back but most importantly installing a midfield that can control a game of football. Personally, don’t see DDG being replaced at least in the short term. His saves are papering over all his cracks and still don’t think it’s recognised how his lack of proactivity hinders our defence.
 
Based on the YouTube clips I've watched, I can see why some posters are asking whether he could play as a DM. Yes it's the Eredivisie, but he seems to have a better passing range than McT and Fred. Interesting player and would make a lot of sense for teams playing 3 at the back. He'd seemingly fit England's system like a glove IMHO.
 
So we don’t know his height because there are conflicting reports and he’s a young player so most are likely to be false anyway and we haven’t watched him enough to know how good his leap is and yet all we’re talking about in here is his heading ability…..
 
Adamsk7 said:
So we don’t know his height because there are conflicting reports and he’s a young player so most are likely to be false anyway and we haven’t watched him enough to know how good his leap is and yet all we’re talking about in here is his heading ability…..
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His height stands out when you watch him. It’s not a made up concern. Also there are publicly available statistics on aerial duels, which is what people are basing their analysis on, and he’s flat out poor. That’s just a fact. Bottom tenth percentile measured against all top five league/champions league centre backs. But people on here keep banging on how small people can have good leaps! Yeah they can…but he’s definitely isn’t one of them.

People are talking about this because it’s his one clear flaw. People get overexcited about young talents and overestimate their strengths all the time and this is very likely happening here too. We saw it in the run up to the AWB signing where people were certain he could be coached on the attacking side (“sure he was a winger at youth level”), that because he was so ‘defensively strong’ he could play centre back and all because no one really understood his game, not least the people scouting him. Seeing the exact same mitigations for this signing tbh and have no doubt the people saying it are as familiar with Timber as they were with AWB while at Palace. I certainly know nothing beyond YouTube clips, fbref profile and word of mouth.
 
Berbaclass said:
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Sold!

Ajax management rubbing their hands together, thinking they've demanded the biggest fee in the world, and Murtough trying to hold back his surprise whilst pretending to struggle to find the money in his big bag of cash.
 
When I watch Timber videos the first thing he reminds me of is Pep's Inverted Fullbacks.
 
Santos J said:
This Ekremkonur bloke hasn't a clue, he's awful
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The Turkish? Romano :lol: just spouts nonsense and muppets lap it up everywhere.

How he has 178k followers is a mystery.
 
For £35mil it's an absolute no-brainer, not sure I believe that though.
 
I can 100% guarantee that Ajax will not sell Timber for EUR35 million.

He is really, really good though, so if he leaves, I hope he follows EtH to United (along with FdJ ofcourse). I have zero doubts he will cope with the physicality of the league. This guy is the real deal.
 
AjaxNL said:
I can 100% guarantee that Ajax will not sell Timber for EUR35 million.

He is really, really good though, so if he leaves, I hope he follows EtH to United (along with FdJ ofcourse). I have zero doubts he will cope with the physicality of the league. This guy is the real deal.
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Thats insightful since you watch him.

There was a videos of his mistake highlights earlier and I was thinking why do posters have something against him? Am I missing something? I only saw Ajax last 8 games so not a proper look over the course of a season but I liked Timber.
 
No way that's true. But if it is he should be signed yesterday.
 
AjaxNL said:
I can 100% guarantee that Ajax will not sell Timber for EUR35 million.

He is really, really good though, so if he leaves, I hope he follows EtH to United (along with FdJ ofcourse). I have zero doubts he will cope with the physicality of the league. This guy is the real deal.
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Which order do you rate Timber, De Ligt, Botman, Martinez and Schurrs?
 
AjaxNL said:
I can 100% guarantee that Ajax will not sell Timber for EUR35 million.

He is really, really good though, so if he leaves, I hope he follows EtH to United (along with FdJ ofcourse). I have zero doubts he will cope with the physicality of the league. This guy is the real deal.
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Weren't you the huge Memphis fan? That was also an "NL". Maybe my memory is failing me.

But yeah Ajax fan always rave about this kid, which says a lot about his potential.
 
VP89 said:
Thats insightful since you watch him.

There was a videos of his mistake highlights earlier and I was thinking why do posters have something against him? Am I missing something? I only saw Ajax last 8 games so not a proper look over the course of a season but I liked Timber.
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Height
 
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