Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

For me the current trophy count between LFC and MUFC is 42 each. Both teams have 4 opportunities this season to increase their total - the 3 domestic trophies and CL for LFC/EL for MUFC.

The only good thing about these single game (or in case of Club World Cup 2 game) trophies is that they are an indication of a successful previous season. But I would still happily see them binned. Football is already saturated with far too many competitive games without the need for glorified friendlies.

In an ideal world I would happily see the prem reduced to 16 or max 18 teams, no FAC replays and the LC abolished. Provided of course that it wouldn’t open the door for more intl matches. While we’re at it the Copa America and AFCON should sync up with the EURO’s so that all players get a long summer break every second year. Currently the football calendar is a fecking mess with players break times being very short and not in sync. Apologies for veering off topic. Back to Klopp’s teeth.
 
Everyone has their own way of doing this.

Personally I only count European trophies since the CL was created due to the formats being changed so much. I also don't count Super Cups, Charity Shields or League Cups. All of which I think can be justified, to some extent at least.

I've no real idea what that makes the score, though. Can anyone help?
 
montpelier said:
Everyone has their own way of doing this.

Personally I only count European trophies since the CL was created due to the formats being changed so much. I also don't count Super Cups, Charity Shields or League Cups. All of which I think can be justified, to some extent at least.

I've no real idea what that makes the score, though. Can anyone help?
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8 cup finals - 6 losses - 2 wins
 
B20 said:
The ones classed by FIFA/UEFA as competitive games.

The charity/community shield is literally a friendly played for charity. It's no different than the other friendly 'tournaments' hosted during the summer.

edit: turns out that is no longer the case and it is recognised by uefa as a competive game and trophy.
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Bottom line is if you're classing the Uefa Super Cup as a trophy then you have to do likewise with the Community Shield. They're both a meaningless as one another
 
We can talk about importance of this trophy but it creates a habit of winning things which is very worrying. They're right up there, it's not the same Liverpool which didn't win anything ever and were always a cause for laughter. As long as they don't win PL it's still good but they won't disappear anytime soon.
 
The Community Shield and Super Cup are trophies, not great ones but they all count. To sum it up, winning either is like shagging a 5/10. Not a great achievement but you’ve still done it. Klopp got his 5/10 last night. Jose with us got 2 5/10’s in the community shield and League Cup, but also got an 8/10 with the Europa. Mauricio Pochettino however, still a virgin :lol:
 
Raw said:
I think this discussion is worth a new thread IMO.

I'd go PL = CL > FA Cup > Europa League > League Cup > Club World Cup > Super Cup > Community Shield
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I'd say the CL is more prestigious than the PL.

CL > PL > Uefa Cup > FA Cup > League Cup > Club World Cup > Super Cup > Community Shield.
 
CognitiveNeuro said:
I'd say the CL is more prestigious than the PL.

CL > PL > Uefa Cup > FA Cup > League Cup > Club World Cup > Super Cup > Community Shield.
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The CL is far more prestigious than the PL. Just ask Fergie. "Only" winning 2 is the only failure in his career.
 
Just do it like this.
United have 37 domestic real trophies to Lfc 33. Thats league/FA cups/League Cups
Liverpool have 9 real trophies to 4 in Europe. Thats European-CL/ Uefa-Europa Cups
I think that’s fair
 
LVGWay said:
The Community Shield and Super Cup are trophies, not great ones but they all count. To sum it up, winning either is like shagging a 5/10. Not a great achievement but you’ve still done it. Klopp got his 5/10 last night. Jose with us got 2 5/10’s in the community shield and League Cup, but also got an 8/10 with the Europa. Mauricio Pochettino however, still a virgin :lol:
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:lol::lol:

Are you saying Klopp shagged a 10/10 in May?!:eek:
 
adexkola said:
No it's not. No one has won more than 3 CL trophies.
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It's still a greater trophy. The problem though is if you don't win your domestic league then you still can't claim the being the best team in europe even though you've won the CL.
 
LVGWay said:
The Community Shield and Super Cup are trophies, not great ones but they all count. To sum it up, winning either is like shagging a 5/10. Not a great achievement but you’ve still done it. Klopp got his 5/10 last night. Jose with us got 2 5/10’s in the community shield and League Cup, but also got an 8/10 with the Europa. Mauricio Pochettino however, still a virgin :lol:
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It’s more like you are sobering up half way through shagging an ugly bird - and deciding whether to just give up or finish?

The community shield is in no way a trophy, it’s a pre-season friendly - it’s pathetic.

The Super Cup - at least it has a little more credibility, but not much - it’s still a glorified friendly.

Quite frankly neither count as trophies, if they do you might as well claim the Audi Cup FFS.
 
Shamana said:
It's still a greater trophy. The problem though is if you don't win your domestic league then you still can't claim the being the best team in europe even though you've won the CL.
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What about Utd in 1999 - didn’t win the league in 1998, but when we won the CL in 1999, were actually the current champions of England...

It’s been a very long time since you could only enter the European Cup if you won your league.

If by your assessment you can’t be the best team in Europe if you didn’t win the league the season before... who is then? In that scenario, who is the best team in Europe? That’s where your argument falls down.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
What about Utd in 1999 - didn’t win the league in 1998, but when we won the CL in 1999, were actually the current champions of England...

It’s been a very long time since you could only enter the European Cup if you won your league.

If by your assessment you can’t be the best team in Europe if you didn’t win the league the season before... who is then? In that scenario, who is the best team in Europe? That’s where your argument falls down.
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I didn't say anything about winning the league the season before. I was talking about winning the league in the same season as winning the CL. You could make an argument that since Liverpool were only 1 point behind City, they could be classed as the best in Europe.
 
Shamana said:
I didn't say anything about winning the league the season before. I was talking about winning the league in the same season as winning the CL. You could make an argument that since Liverpool were only 1 point behind City, they could be classed as the best in Europe.
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So you have to win the double to be the best team in Europe?

I think if you do win the double, then clearly you are... however what about the 50% of times where that’s not the case.

Who was the best team in Europe when Real won the CL, but didn’t win La Liga?
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
So you have to win the double to be the best team in Europe?

I think if you do win the double, then clearly you are... however what about the 50% of times where that’s not the case.

Who was the best team in Europe when Real won the CL, but didn’t win La Liga?
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I think you have to win the double to be the best in Europe. Liverpool under Rafa and Chelsea under Di Matteo were hardly the best in Europe when they won the CL. It's up to debate who the best in the world/europe is if the CL winners don't win their league.
 
Shamana said:
It's still a greater trophy. The problem though is if you don't win your domestic league then you still can't claim the being the best team in europe even though you've won the CL.
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It's not a failure to "only" win 2 CLs.

And yes I agree, you're not definitively the best team in Europe if you can't win your league.

Shamana said:
I didn't say anything about winning the league the season before. I was talking about winning the league in the same season as winning the CL. You could make an argument that since Liverpool were only 1 point behind City, they could be classed as the best in Europe.
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You could, yet City took 4 points from them last season.

You could make a valid case for City, Liverpool, Barcelona or Juventus. Winning the European/League double makes the answer definitive.
 
adexkola said:
It's not a failure to "only" win 2 CLs.

And yes I agree, you're not definitively the best team in Europe if you can't win your league.



You could, yet City took 4 points from them last season.

You could make a valid case for City, Liverpool, Barcelona or Juventus. Winning the European/League double makes the answer definitive.
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Perhaps failure for winning "only" 2 Cl's is a bit too strong a word, but only because It's Alex Ferguson. He's rated as the best manager of all time, but both Pep and Zidane have equalled or surpassed his CL tally within the first 3 years as managers. Of course it's an anomaly, but I think all, including United fans felt that Fergie should have won at least 1 more since United became superpower.
 
Shamana said:
Perhaps failure for winning "only" 2 Cl's is a bit too strong a word, but only because It's Alex Ferguson. He's rated as the best manager of all time, but both Pep and Zidane have equalled or surpassed his CL tally within the first 3 years as managers. Of course it's an anomaly, but I think all, including United fans felt that Fergie should have won at least 1 more since United became superpower.
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The only managers in history who have won more European cups than Ferguson are Bob Paisley, Carlo Ancelotti and Zinedine Zidane and they've each won just one more. It's hardly a disappointing record.
 
B20 said:
The only managers in history who have won more European cups than Ferguson are Bob Paisley, Carlo Ancelotti and Zinedine Zidane and they've each won just one more. It's hardly a disappointing record.
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And yet Fergie only won 1 more than Roberto Di Matteo. :nervous:


...
Sorry, just wumming there for a minute. :lol:
 
We've conceded a worrying amount of chances to our opponents in the first three games.

I don't like this high line he's got us playing. I don't think we have the midfielders needed to pull it off.
 
Klopper76 said:
We've conceded a worrying amount of chances to our opponents in the first three games.

I don't like this high line he's got us playing. I don't think we have the midfielders needed to pull it off.
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I know we played Chelsea and City but they were one off games. I think we'll see the high press against lower/mid-table sides and we'll revert to last seasons tactics against the bigger clubs in the league. Last season, it was draws that killed us. Being defensively sound is brilliant but the only way we can get better is by turning those 7 draws into wins and the only way we can do that is by being even more aggressive.
The quality of the smaller clubs to hurt us on the break isn't there as much so it's worth trying the tactics in one off games against big opponents to see how we fare.
 
Speedy30 said:
I know we played Chelsea and City but they were one off games. I think we'll see the high press against lower/mid-table sides and we'll revert to last seasons tactics against the bigger clubs in the league. Last season, it was draws that killed us. Being defensively sound is brilliant but the only way we can get better is by turning those 7 draws into wins and the only way we can do that is by being even more aggressive.
The quality of the smaller clubs to hurt us on the break isn't there as much so it's worth trying the tactics in one off games against big opponents to see how we fare.
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Let's hope Klopp feels the same way when his team come up against United this season.

The likes of Rashford, Martial, James and Greenwood will be eternally grateful.
 
njred said:
Just do it like this.
United have 37 domestic real trophies to Lfc 33. Thats league/FA cups/League Cups
Liverpool have 9 real trophies to 4 in Europe. Thats European-CL/ Uefa-Europa Cups
I think that’s fair
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I like this, but you've included the League Cup. - :lol: :lol:.
 
Random Task said:
Let's hope Klopp feels the same way when his team come up against United this season.

The likes of Rashford, Martial, James and Greenwood will be eternally grateful.
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Tbf you allowed Chelsea 18 shots on Sunday so there's clearly work to do there as well.

It's never good if the opposition is creating chances regularly like that.
 
njred said:
Just do it like this.
United have 37 domestic real trophies to Lfc 33. Thats league/FA cups/League Cups
Liverpool have 9 real trophies to 4 in Europe. Thats European-CL/ Uefa-Europa Cups
I think that’s fair
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Manchester United has 5 european trophies.

It is to simplistic for me looking at it that way. Trophies are not of the same value.

Just going by the numbers, 37-33, flatters Liverpool as Man United have two more league titles, the biggest domestic trophy, and five more FA cups, the second biggest domestic trophy.
 
Klopper76 said:
Tbf you allowed Chelsea 18 shots on Sunday so there's clearly work to do there as well.

It's never good if the opposition is creating chances regularly like that.
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The difference being Chelsea got in behind your backline on a fair few occasions last night, that wasn't the case against us. We managed to limit them to long-range efforts primarily. Our struggles came from the midfield area which is a concern at the moment.

For me, the risks outweigh the benefits of Klopp's new tactical approach. You look equally as likely to concede as score with it. But I'm just a regular football fan, what do I know.
 
Random Task said:
Let's hope Klopp feels the same way when his team come up against United this season.

The likes of Rashford, Martial, James and Greenwood will be eternally grateful.
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He's a good manager. He's not going to gift you that space without a plan
 
Klopper76 said:
We've conceded a worrying amount of chances to our opponents in the first three games.

I don't like this high line he's got us playing. I don't think we have the midfielders needed to pull it off.
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Will be interesting to see how you play against us. The high line could be perfect for Auba and Pepe, with Luiz, Xhaka and Guendouzi just told to play the ball over the top for the strikers to run onto.

That said, it’s Anfield. You always destroy us there, and I’m expecting you will this time round.
 
In fairness, gomez and Van dijk are perhaps the best recovery defenders in the league. They are both ridiculously fast. Not many who get away from them from a ball in behind. So I can see why Klopp might think we have the right personel to play like this.
 
Yep firstly we need ball playing midfielders that don't let Arsenal have the ball as much as Chelsea did. And secondly Auba will get away and probably score, but our two CBs will not make it easy. They're probably both faster than him anyway. Then it's a case of what's your shape like after that attack because ManeSalahFirmino were waiting for the break. You score, we score two type scenario.
 
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