Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

[Obi-Red-Kenobi]

But 1 point less last season right

Yep, but the competition was a lot stronger. UTD improved, Spurs improved, and City improved massively under Pep.

Champions Leage final, more goals scored, more chances created, less goals conceded again, less chances conceded, less mistakes made, and still haven’t lost at home in 15 months. The improvement is there for all all to see.

 

[Sassy Colin]

I’ve done nothing of the sort. I’m simply asking if you’d give up the trophies for a better brand of football. It’s about your opinion, not being right or wrong.

Don’t be so defensive.

Well I watched Liverpool play United twice last season, and they were shit both times.

So I'll take the trophies please.

 

[breakout67]

City won the league twice in the five years before Guardiola took over. You can argue he's improved his team the most because of all the records they broke last season but he did nothing special in his first season (was even laughed at by many on here) and did something that previous managers did as well with a much worse squad than Guardiola has at his disposal.

Liverpool, on the other hand, finished in the top 4 once in the six years before Klopp took over. Now we've done it twice in a row, while getting to three cup finals in the process (lost them all, I'll say it myself before you mention it). Our attack wasn't better under Rodgers either, Rodgers was very very lucky that he had the best striker in the world and a fit Sturridge to benefit from that striker.

That's the argument I'm making. Not only has Guardiola improved City's point total by 22 points from his 1st season, but they have also broken many records doing it. He has also gotten City a step further in the CL. Meanwhile Klopp's main improvement is maintaining the league position and getting to a CL final.

In fact there is a sound argument that Liverpool's improvement is largely speaking superficial compared to City's, because it's foundation is on a cup run with an easy route and subjective arguments like quality of football (you'd be hard pressed to find someone that thinks Liverpool are a better footballing team than City). There's the saying that the league is your bread and butter, because it's less influenced by luck and requires a more consistent level.

 

[Paul Martin]

Klopp is lucky he had Coutinho there before he joined so he could sell him though, that's why net spend etc is a nonsense.

It's not though, because if they hadn't lost a £140m player, they wouldn't have to spend to replace.

 

[Coxy]

That's the argument I'm making. Not only has Guardiola improved City's point total by 22 points from his 1st season, but they have also broken many records doing it. He has also gotten City a step further in the CL. Meanwhile Klopp's main improvement is maintaining the league position and getting to a CL final.

In fact there is a sound argument that Liverpool's improvement is largely speaking superficial compared to City's, because it's foundation is on a cup run with an easy route and subjective arguments like quality of football (you'd be hard pressed to find someone that thinks Liverpool are a better footballing team than City). There's the saying that the league is your bread and butter, because it's less influenced by luck and requires a more consistent level.

It’s hardly surprising that Guardiola has had the better success - he has the better players

 

[breakout67]

It’s hardly surprising that Guardiola has had the better success - he has the better players

I'm not the one arguing that Liverpool have improved more than City am I? Guardiola has spent a lot of money and made a mockery of the league and every other manager in it. Klopp is starting to splash the cash but no one expects him to get to the level of Guardiola because he's not at that level of manager.

 

[Paul Martin]

Why? Jose never had a superstar at Utd that he could sell.
We had to dredge out Morgan, Bastian etc for peanuts, thats the difference in net spend and both scenarios had nothing to do with the current managers so why should it be a plus in either column?
We all lose big players to Spain, it's nothing heroic.

De Gea, Depay, Martial? Liverpool didn't BUY a superstar for huge money in Coutinho. He became their best player and selling him meant that big money needed to be spent to fill the void. So, yes, it is relevant.

 

[VanGaalEra]

He's spent over 400M and won nothing so far. It's a big season for himself and the club.

No trophies would mean a massive failure.

 

[Schmiznurf]

And if my flat had two floors and was by itself it'd be a house.

 

[Grande]

If my dad had wings, he'd be a kite.

If a frog was a donkey, it wouldn’t be a frog. (Unless it was a donkeyfrog).

 

[KirkDuyt]

Feckin hell I just realised that if we had won the final in 2010 with 1-0 instead of losing it with 0-1 we would've won the world cup. Why the feck didn't we think of that back then!??!

 

[Coxy]

He's spent over 400M and won nothing so far. It's a big season for himself and the club.

No trophies would mean a massive failure.

Not sure I fully agree. We’ve spent only 20 million less since both managers were in place and we already had a better team to begin with. In that time we’ve hardly been winning trophies galore.

Yes we’ve had more success - but so we should do.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

I'm sure we'll be reading in October how much Klopp has improved these new players.

I'm irritated with our board. Liverpool are clearly investing well, we've bought Fred & replaced Blind with Dalot. Media bias will remain though, they bought Van Dyke for £75m, but we were big spending anti-football for swapping Mkhitaryan for Sanchez.

 

[Haddock]

True, but at least you could piggyback his chat when he pervs on the two single mothers sitting at the bar.
Jose would be the one who doesn't have to make an effort so you would be carrying the chat up line load on your own

You think? I always found Jose chirpy enough. Even when he has nassing to say. Especially when he has nassing to say.

 

[Loon]

Had his teeth done. Next he’ll have a portrait of himself hanging in his home...

The bullshit is already pre-installed.

 

[cyberman]

De Gea, Depay, Martial? Liverpool didn't BUY a superstar for huge money in Coutinho. He became their best player and selling him meant that big money needed to be spent to fill the void. So, yes, it is relevant.

Martial and Depay...OK then, that answers that.
Look, all I'm saying is net spend is bullshit when the squad Liverpool has is more expensive than ours.
Klopp is spending money. That's all there is to it.
Jose got rid of Morgan, Depay and Blind for 70 odd million.
How does selling those atrocious pieces of business for a net gain of 70 odd million (since this is an arbitrary cut off point so their actual transfer fee when joining is somehow discarded) have any positive aspects towards Jose's spending?
That man is a genius for selling players he never used!
Its like Martial, Jose would never buy Anthony if he weren't already here yet when we sell him for 60 odd million that's another plus in a column where it doesn't belong.
Feck it, that's 70m plus 60m which is 130m. We are a Darmian and Shaw sale away from getting Pogba and Lukaku for a net spend of 0.
See what I mean? Our atrocious transfer policy suddenly has no downsides to our club in regards of net spend thanks to imaginary goal posts which is ridiculous.. but poor Klopp got to sell Coutinho for 50 percent more than his worth to hide his spending

 

[Fenre]

Don't really understand the whole "he has to win a trophy now"-argument. I understand it is to put pressure on a club, but it all feels a bit weird. Especially when linking it up to the money-spent. Since Klopp arrived, Liverpool has spent the third most of the clubs in the Premier League, and the squad he inherited was not in the same shape as for example Chelsea (last seasons winner) or Manchester City (number two last season). He took over a club that finished the last seasons in 6th, 2nd (the Suarez-season), 7th, 8th, 6th, 7th. The last trophy was won in 2012, which was a League Cup.

For me, as a supporter, this is the history of my team the last seasons. We are not winners in recent years.

So for me, its just bizarre to talk about "he has to win a title". Of course, that is what we aim for, and I hope we can move towards that, but do I require him to win won this season? No. That would be insanity. There are some clubs ahead of us, which are far superior when talking about financing. And sadly, in football now, that matters a lot. And consider how few titles there is (Champions League, Premier League, League Cup, and FA Cup), expecting a title is just not fair.

As a supporter, I cannot think of a better manager for us at the moment. He has given me some football memories that I have not had for years. And maybe I am getting too old, but for me, that whats matter now. The memory I had with my son when Lovren scored the winning goal against Dortmund. The whole road to the Champions League-final last year. These kind of things is what matters for me now, and he has delivered, and I cannot wait for more memories like that.

 

[jack1092]

Martial and Depay...OK then, that answers that.
Look, all I'm saying is net spend is bullshit when the squad Liverpool has is more expensive than ours.
Klopp is spending money. That's all there is to it.
Jose got rid of Morgan, Depay and Blind for 70 odd million.
How does selling those atrocious pieces of business for a net gain of 70 odd million (since this is an arbitrary cut off point so their actual transfer fee when joining is somehow discarded) have any positive aspects towards Jose's spending?
That man is a genius for selling players he never used!
Its like Martial, Jose would never buy Anthony if he weren't already here yet when we sell him for 60 odd million that's another plus in a column where it doesn't belong.
Feck it, that's 70m plus 60m which is 130m. We are a Darmian and Shaw sale away from getting Pogba and Lukaku for a net spend of 0.
See what I mean? Our atrocious transfer policy suddenly has no downsides to our club in regards of net spend thanks to imaginary goal posts which is ridiculous.. but poor Klopp got to sell Coutinho for 50 percent more than his worth to hide his spending

Your comment is that ridiculous you have to throw in a blinkered view on Coutinho lol Hide his spending? The player wanted to leave, and we sold at a price he was worth to us. Fact.

As Paul says above, if we hadn't sold Coutinho for that amount of money, do you really think LFC would be spending as much, i am not so sure. This reeks of raging UTD fans who are disappointed that their side aren't acting fast enough in the market. Instead of buying players, Jose has to focus on talking about LFC in preseason.....

I admit LFC are spending good money now, but to label Net spend as bullshit, probably indicates to your IQ level. I don't see what's so hard to understand about the whole thing?

Some teams stockpile players, they can spend 100+million + sell nobody, that's all great, but they are at a distinct advantage to a team that hasn't been able to do this. Therefore, it takes the team with tighter purse strings longer to develop a squad.

Its funny, has the window closed already? UTD could be on their way to spending 70+ mill on a decent CB, i bet they won't moan then, but what about VVD?

If you counted up the UTD squad, and counted up the LFC squad......i would imagine your statement "squad LFC has is more expensive than ours" isn't correct either.

 

[cyberman]

Your comment is that ridiculous you have to throw in a blinkered view on Coutinho lol Hide his spending? The player wanted to leave, and we sold at a price he was worth to us. Fact.

As Paul says above, if we hadn't sold Coutinho for that amount of money, do you really think LFC would be spending as much, i am not so sure. This reeks of raging UTD fans who are disappointed that their side aren't acting fast enough in the market. Instead of buying players, Jose has to focus on talking about LFC in preseason.....

I admit LFC are spending good money now, but to label Net spend as bullshit, probably indicates to your IQ level. I don't see what's so hard to understand about the whole thing?

Some teams stockpile players, they can spend 100+million + sell nobody, that's all great, but they are at a distinct advantage to a team that hasn't been able to do this. Therefore, it takes the team with tighter purse strings longer to develop a squad.

Its funny, has the window closed already? UTD could be on their way to spending 70+ mill on a decent CB, i bet they won't moan then, but what about VVD?

If you counted up the UTD squad, and counted up the LFC squad......i would imagine your statement "squad LFC has is more expensive than ours" isn't correct either.

Liverpool had huge investment from the Suarez and Sterling deals before Klopp joined, now hes spent 400m since then. Our squad value really isn't that high when the vast majority of our expensive players are Paul and Lukaku. You'll be very surprised if you research the value. The Utd side that lost to Sevilla cost less than the Liverpool side that beat City. The Liverpool side that lost in the final cost more than Madrid's first 11.
You have been one of the biggest spenders in EPL history ffs.
And yes, net spend is bullshit. This isn't 2001 anymore, everybody has money. Unless you're building a stadium, nobody needs to sell.
Liverpool wanted to keep Countinho and said time and time again that VVD and Kieta had nothing to do with that sale. You wanted to buy VVD thinking Coutinho was staying!
Enough with the nonsense.

 

[roonster09]

Instead of buying players, Jose has to focus on talking about LFC in preseason..

Liverpool fans are something else.

 

[Paul Martin]

Martial and Depay...OK then, that answers that.
Look, all I'm saying is net spend is bullshit when the squad Liverpool has is more expensive than ours.
Klopp is spending money. That's all there is to it.
Jose got rid of Morgan, Depay and Blind for 70 odd million.
How does selling those atrocious pieces of business for a net gain of 70 odd million (since this is an arbitrary cut off point so their actual transfer fee when joining is somehow discarded) have any positive aspects towards Jose's spending?
That man is a genius for selling players he never used!
Its like Martial, Jose would never buy Anthony if he weren't already here yet when we sell him for 60 odd million that's another plus in a column where it doesn't belong.
Feck it, that's 70m plus 60m which is 130m. We are a Darmian and Shaw sale away from getting Pogba and Lukaku for a net spend of 0.
See what I mean? Our atrocious transfer policy suddenly has no downsides to our club in regards of net spend thanks to imaginary goal posts which is ridiculous.. but poor Klopp got to sell Coutinho for 50 percent more than his worth to hide his spending

The point you're missing though is Liverpool developed a £9M player into one that became a superstar and was sold for £140M. Utd bought average players and seemingly made them worse.

De Gea is the one who has appreciated massively in value to the extent that if you sold him for £80m (or whatever his current market value is), Utd would have to invest similar to be in the same position.

Liverpool have moneyballed a number of (relatively) low cost players and developed them into stars for the team, their value (to the team and market value) appreciating significantly.

You talk as if Moyes and Van Gaal had been shopping in the lower tiers for their players and spent nothing, leaving poor old Jose with a squad of £10M players.

 

[RobinLFC]

That's the argument I'm making. Not only has Guardiola improved City's point total by 22 points from his 1st season, but they have also broken many records doing it. He has also gotten City a step further in the CL. Meanwhile Klopp's main improvement is maintaining the league position and getting to a CL final.

In fact there is a sound argument that Liverpool's improvement is largely speaking superficial compared to City's, because it's foundation is on a cup run with an easy route and subjective arguments like quality of football (you'd be hard pressed to find someone that thinks Liverpool are a better footballing team than City). There's the saying that the league is your bread and butter, because it's less influenced by luck and requires a more consistent level.

Did he feck take City a step further in the CL They went to the semis before he arrived, and now they got completely blown away by the first good team they faced, losing both the first and second leg.

Klopp's main improvement is definitely not maintaining league position and getting to the CL final. You are looking into the results way too much and just basing your argument on what they achieved. Guardiola just continued to do what City did before him (i.e. winning titles and domestic cups), only now he is doing it at a higher level because he has players at his disposal who are way better than the likes of Pelligrini and Mancini had. City were a title contender before him, they are under him and they will be after him. Only if he makes them a perennial title winner and a force in Europe like United between 07-09 he will have made a lasting impact on the club and definitely have made them better. He most definitely did not take them a step further in the CL although he really, really should have with this crop of players.

Klopp already changed the culture at Liverpool. We were used to ending outside the top 4 before he arrived. We were used to no CL football, and we were definitely used to not playing in cup finals, let alone win trophies. We were getting used to top players rejecting us. Just the fact that players like Van Dijk (and apparently Fékir this window has his heart set on Liverpool too) want to play for Liverpool rather than City shows how much he changed things at our club. We're signing players like Alisson, Keita, Fabinho whereas five years ago we were signing the likes of Joe Cole, Jovanovic and Konchesky. City were still signing top class players five years ago like they are doing now, we were not. Klopp has changed our club a lot more than Guardiola has changed City. We finished two times in a row in the top four for the first time in a decade. We reached three cup finals in three seasons. Just the fact that people are saying that we should be considered title contenders before the start of the season shows you how much he has changed the outlook of our club and the ambition and expectations that come with it. However, a lot of people want to run before they know how to walk. Such a transformation takes time first and foremost, and we shouldn't go "this year or bust". Even if he wins nothing at all at our club, I still won't consider him a failure if we are to stay relevant both domestically and in the CL. Before his arrival we were looking more and more like a midtable team that used to be good back in the days. Liverpool not being in the CL was more norm than exception. If he has changed simply that after his tenure here, I'll be happy. Maybe that's lack of ambition for you, you can say that and I'll be fine with it if you think that. I'm not used to Liverpool winning things, so I certainly won't care if we don't win anything next season, especially when there are hundreds of other positives around the club which I can be happy about. It hasn't been like that for a very long time and everyone who has a broad scope and not just look at the amount of trophies should be able to see that.

 

[jack1092]

Liverpool had huge investment from the Suarez and Sterling deals before Klopp joined, now hes spent 400m since then. Our squad value really isn't that high when the vast majority of our expensive players are Paul and Lukaku. You'll be very surprised if you research the value. The Utd side that lost to Sevilla cost less than the Liverpool side that beat City. The Liverpool side that lost in the final cost more than Madrid's first 11.
You have been one of the biggest spenders in EPL history ffs.
And yes, net spend is bullshit. This isn't 2001 anymore, everybody has money. Unless you're building a stadium, nobody needs to sell.
Liverpool wanted to keep Countinho and said time and time again that VVD and Kieta had nothing to do with that sale. You wanted to buy VVD thinking Coutinho was staying!
Enough with the nonsense.

lol, enough with the nonsense? You are comparing a particular side in one off games. Football is a squad game, not the 11 only that start. I am sure if you actually went through a UTD squad and LFC, the figures would come out differently to what you say but whatever pal.

Liverpool fans are something else.

Well UTD are participating in a preseason, and hes talking about LFC, quite funny isn't it?

 

[Sassy Colin]

Don't really understand the whole "he has to win a trophy now"-argument. I understand it is to put pressure on a club, but it all feels a bit weird. Especially when linking it up to the money-spent. Since Klopp arrived, Liverpool has spent the third most of the clubs in the Premier League, and the squad he inherited was not in the same shape as for example Chelsea (last seasons winner) or Manchester City (number two last season). He took over a club that finished the last seasons in 6th, 2nd (the Suarez-season), 7th, 8th, 6th, 7th. The last trophy was won in 2012, which was a League Cup.

For me, as a supporter, this is the history of my team the last seasons. We are not winners in recent years.

So for me, its just bizarre to talk about "he has to win a title". Of course, that is what we aim for, and I hope we can move towards that, but do I require him to win won this season? No. That would be insanity. There are some clubs ahead of us, which are far superior when talking about financing. And sadly, in football now, that matters a lot. And consider how few titles there is (Champions League, Premier League, League Cup, and FA Cup), expecting a title is just not fair.

As a supporter, I cannot think of a better manager for us at the moment. He has given me some football memories that I have not had for years. And maybe I am getting too old, but for me, that whats matter now. The memory I had with my son when Lovren scored the winning goal against Dortmund. The whole road to the Champions League-final last year. These kind of things is what matters for me now, and he has delivered, and I cannot wait for more memories like that.

If you are alright with spending all that money for no reward (trophies) then that's fine.

It wouldn't wash at United though.

 

[Sassy Colin]

lol, enough with the nonsense? You are comparing a particular side in one off games. Football is a squad game, not the 11 only that start. I am sure if you actually went through a UTD squad and LFC, the figures would come out differently to what you say but whatever pal.



Well UTD are participating in a preseason, and hes talking about LFC, quite funny isn't it?

He's talking about that hypocritical twat Klopp, who has a go at everyone else then when he does the same thing himself, just laughs it off.

 

[RobinLFC]

If you are alright with spending all that money for no reward (trophies) then that's fine.

It wouldn't wash at United though.

You know that it's not our money right?

I get a whole season of enjoyment and attractive football out of it. I wouldn't trade that for a season of dull football just to be happy once in May when we win a trophy.

 

[jack1092]

He's talking about that hypocritical twat Klopp, who has a go at everyone else then when he does the same thing himself, just laughs it off.

Incorrect again! He is talking about LFC should be winning the title, that is a daft statement to make? Challenging yes, winning for certain no?

If he was talking about Klopp, why not talk about Klopp, rather than LFC title chances...

come on.

 

[cyberman]

You know that it's not our money right?

I get a whole season of enjoyment and attractive football out of it. I wouldn't trade that for a season of dull football just to be happy once in May when we win a trophy.

Why does it have to be dull?

 

[Fenre]

If you are alright with spending all that money for no reward (trophies) then that's fine.

It wouldn't wash at United though.

When Manchester City, Chelsea, and Manchester United has spent more in the same period? And from a worse standing then at least Manchester City and Chelsea?

Then yes, I am ok with that. Why should we expect rewards (trophies) when we have not spent more money then anyone else?

 

[RobinLFC]

Why does it have to be dull?

Cos Mourinho.

 

[roonster09]

Well UTD are participating in a preseason, and hes talking about LFC, quite funny isn't it?

Keep going, it is funny.

He was asked about the comments made by clown klopp.

 

[roonster09]

Incorrect again! He is talking about LFC should be winning the title, that is a daft statement to make? Challenging yes, winning for certain no?

If he was talking about Klopp, why not talk about Klopp, rather than LFC title chances...

come on.

Saying Liverpool should be challenging for title is saying Klopp should be challenging. It's not hard to understand.

 

[RobinLFC]

Saying Liverpool should be challenging for title is saying Klopp should be challenging. It's not hard to understand.

Your comments in this thread make me think that it's not Klopp who's the clown here.

 

[roonster09]

Your comments in this thread make me think that it's not Klopp who's the clown here.

Obviously it's easy to spot, it's the guys who are defending the clown .

So saying Liverpool should be challenging for league title is not same as saying Klopp should challenge?

 

[RobinLFC]

Obviously it's easy to spot, it's the guys who are defending the clown .

So saying Liverpool should be challenging for league title is not same as saying Klopp should challenge?

It implies that, yes. It does not take away from the fact that he was talking about Liverpool in this instance, not Klopp. And either way, what difference does it make? You're just arguing a point for the sake of it, or being deliberately obtuse, I don't know yet.

 

[jack1092]

Obviously it's easy to spot, it's the guys who are defending the clown .

So saying Liverpool should be challenging for league title is not same as saying Klopp should challenge?

You seem to miss the point a lot to suit your agenda.

good luck!

 

[roonster09]

It implies that, yes. It does not take away from the fact that he was talking about Liverpool in this instance, not Klopp. And either way, what difference does it make? You're just arguing a point for the sake of it, or being deliberately obtuse, I don't know yet.

What point? One Liverpool fan missed the point and said instead of preparing Jose is talking about Liverpool.


Again, saying Liverpool should challenge = Klopp should challenge. Not sure why it's so hard for you to understand, unless you don't want to.

Its obvious who is missing the point and it's not me.

 

[roonster09]

You seem to miss the point a lot to suit your agenda.

good luck!

Says the guy who didn't even know why Jose talked about Klopp/Liverpool. Very common among Liverpool fans, so you are not alone.

 

[jack1092]

Says the guy who didn't even know why Jose talked about Klopp/Liverpool. Very common among Liverpool fans, so you are not alone.

Keep on replying..............zzzz.

You literally are more concerned about LFC- source? Your "recent activity"

sad times!

anyway i have wasted enough time with you....you can take your UTD glasses off now + finish chatting to me.

thanks and good luck (again)

 

[Sassy Colin]

It's no point talking to them @roonster09 they just don't get it.