To be fair I don't think either were penalties but I'm glad Spurs equalised just for Klopp's face after 
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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The argument about the first pen is interesting, because it is about highly distinct interpretations about the offside rules, and will have consequences for later games.
The second one is just water under the bridge either way. It’s a goal is a goal is a goal.
At the start I thought it was penalty but I rewatched it like 5 times to make sure. I have to say it's not penalty.
The contact was so soft from VVD & VVD's main intention was to clear the ball away. Look at VVD's eye was on the ball only before the contact, he swing his leg to clear the ball but the moment he realised he won't get the ball, he tried to pull away his leg and ensure the less contact as possible he can do which he did the contact was so soft. Lamela's reaction was so late as well.
Klopp is obviously furious, Mourinho would have been furious as well. But we are all know Mourinho will get punished while Klopp will get away from being sarcastic about referee.
As an United fans, I'm happy with the result.
In an effort to remain open minded I just rewatched it a few times and I'm even more sure it's a peno. If you strip back the situation to the basics (reasons like eyes on the ball, trying to pull out, intentional or not, Lamela playing for it are actually irrelevant whether you agree with them or not) you have a Liverpool defender kicking a Spurs player inside the box. It's a peno.
If player A fouls player B but didn't mean to, it's still a foul right?
Agree on Klopp and is probable lack of punishment, if Mou said that he'd be slapped with a huge fine
When do the FA usually announce charges? After all games of that match week, or would we normally have heard something by now?
yes. Otherwise there would be no foul ever since everyone can claim the same.
If you watch it from a better angle then yes.
Both pens were offside and shouldn't have stood, however, draw was a fair result imo. It was a game of two halves.
Saying that Salah's second goal deserved to be a winner, he's insane.
Saying that Salah's second goal deserved to be a winner, he's insane.
If he was able to accuse BT of influencing the ref to not add on enough time and still get away with being charged I wouldn't hold out much hope for the FA to do anything today.
For some reason he's just allowed to do what he wants.
For some reason he's just allowed to do what he wants.
By positioning himself in an offside position, Kane has taken action to influence the game.
I’m sorry for my salty wording previously. I do think it’s an interesting debate, and that you, Listar, are making some very good points that a failed to acknowledge. I was wrong in at first thinking the rules were obvious.
I still think you’re wrong in thinking this is obvious though.
As for the were we disagree, it’s clearly in your understanding of the use of the word save. You seem to think it’s synonymous with a passive position or the word block. You also seem to think that a clearance cannot be regarded as a save. This is not at all clear.
My contention is that if for instance a defender will be deemed to have saved the ball on the goalline wether he kicks the ball away (which he normally will) or keeps his foot in a still position. Likewise, a keeper that puts his hand out in front of a goal bound shot, moves it forward to beat the ball away, or boxes it away, will be credited with a ‘save’. A block can be a save, a clearance can be a save.
When the law as per today distinguishes crucially between a ‘deliberate play’ and a ‘deliberate save’, I think it’s a great weakness in the formulation that it doesn’t make it clear what the difference is.
I do think the interpretation Moss made, and that may well be the interpretation of all the FA refs this year for all I know, is stupid. If it hadn’t been for that, I wouldn’t have bothered with this hair splitting definition.
It’s counterintuitive to the players and most viewers (it seems from this) that an offside position is wrong if a defender misses the ball entirely, leaves it, cushions it or blocks it to the attacker, but is okay not if he moves his foot trying to stop it, or only partly misses it.
Neither is in accordance with the intention of the offside rule (you shouldn’t be fishing for the ball to get an advantage), nor is it in line with the intention of the ‘deliberate play’ exemption (to make it harder for defenders wanting to play deliberate backward passes to the keeper).
To sum up a long post probably noone but you, Listar, will bother reading
, I think the rules at this point are faultily ambiguous, and the interpretation of amongst other Moss is a stupid interpretation of it.Yes, you can.
It was not that bad a decision. It is a normal penalty for me. You see some of them given, some of them not. Van Djik did get contact with Lamela though he was clearly trying to pull out. Lamela did over-react as if his back was split. That's the only way you get penalties nowadays (Blame the refs for it)
But the player was touched and it was a foul.
The thing is when you touch a player in the box, you give a chance for the ref to make a decision. And it is not in your favour a good number of times.
But the player was touched and it was a foul.
The thing is when you touch a player in the box, you give a chance for the ref to make a decision. And it is not in your favour a good number of times.
Yes... if that was the only angle we had it would have still been a foul but it would have been soft. Luckily we have many angles and the evidence is conclusive.
Surely if you look at it from the other angles you understand it is a foul though?
I enjoyed the draw as good result for us, & although the penalties given, particularly the second, were dubious at best, it always makes my day when Liverpool fail to win just to see Klopp's breakdown. I hate how him & Conte are hyped up as being nice types compared to nasty Mourinho, when in reality the pair of them are not at all nice & show their true colours when results don't go their way. Let it continue, & hope Arsenal & Spurs take their places in the top four with us & City.
It's just sad that Klopp's theatrics, Liverpool's awful defense, Liverpool's dependence on one player(being hardly a team), Van Dijk's stupidity(whether it's a penalty or not)are not being discussed. Klopp minus of the City and Arsenal game at Anfield have been largely average in the big games yet Jose is continuously questioned for his tactics in the big games. I'd rather win 3, get a draw playing with one year on the score rather than drop 2 cuz of overexcitement. That's why Klopp has consistently lost finals, because his teams like himself are never concentrating on the task at hand.
How is it even up for debate that the second wasn't a penalty?! He just boots him in the back of the thigh!
If we're nitpicking about rules, then the first penalty should've been retaken
It was totally clear what he said. His English is excellent.
Funny thing about opinions is, I clearly see him not pulling out. He kicks the player as he would try to kick the ball. You see him clearly pulling out, I see him clearly not doing it, so the truth is obviously not clear.
The ironic thing is that Lovren’s clearance is absolutely beautiful, relative to the one he had five minutes earlier.
If we're nitpicking about rules, then the first penalty should've been retaken
Seems like Wanyama is inside as well, which kind of clears the LFC-players, or so I’ve heard....
Thanks. Despite your heavy handed style of argument, including unfortunate references to disability, your points did help me get my head around the legalities of the case. You have persuaded me that the goal should have stood. But looking at the rules around offside brings home what a bloody complicated rule it is.
Poor old Klopp...his time at Liverpool is turning out the same way as The Simpsons visit to Dr Marvin Monroe; now it's Dr Klopp who needs therapy.
You’re Gone, Klopp.
Offside rule is dumb as hell. Situation for the first penalty is so , i mean, it would be offside if Lovren let it through on purpose but he couldnt do that because he doesnt know is Kane offside 100% or not, so he is forced to clear it, yes he made a meal of it but that whole situation is fecked up imo.
, i mean, it would be offside if Lovren let it through on purpose but he couldnt do that because he doesnt know is Kane offside 100% or not, so he is forced to clear it, yes he made a meal of it but that whole situation is fecked up imo.Diese ist unsere jahr, la.
He’s not actually trying to pull out, it’s Lamela’s leg that buckles and the lower part “recoils” from the violent kick he has made.
The second one which mattered was a penalty. It wasn’t even that soft.
it doesn't matter if he was trying to pull out (lol). He was too late. He kicks his calf. How can that not be a pen?
Was listening some of his interviews after last night`s game, i understand managers talk some weird shit in post match when they are unhappy but he cant be for real with his post match interviews.
It is a foul and pen.
This a million times. They cannot shut up about the first pen but the first one was misse anyway
He's out of order the way he criticize the referee in my opinion, he can't claim that the linesman wanted to be the center of attention, it is questioning his integrity. Complain about the decision, but not the motive behind.
If Mourinho did that he'd be banned until April.
And rightly so (or at-least for a match or two), I'm really tired of managers shifting blame onto referees to mask their own teams shortcomings. Not every decision will go your way, and although in some cases it is justified to complain about a decision it happens far too often. When managers start saying things like 'it should have been a free-kick in the middle of the pitch in the buildup to the goal' or things like that it's unhealthy for the game and referees who have to face the reactions from the million of fans the manager of their team can influence.
I think in the cold light of day and upon reflection Klopp will know the decisions were correct. Him creating a "the world is against us" mentality deflects away from a woeful 2nd half performance.It also deflects away from the fact that 75m quid after VVD his defence is still a shambles. Lovren's swipe at the ball was sunday leaguesque. The keepers refusal to catch the cross that lead to Wanyama's goal. All these gets swept under the carpet while they wallow in self pity. They really should have down something keeper wise in Jan, even a loan for an experienced one until the summer. There was twice in that game when their keeper came out to collect and the defenders still played the ball. He clearly called it but they don't trust him and that doesn't inspire any kind of confidence.
By the way why was Moss asking for "Anything on TV" or something like that? There is no VAR right?