Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

GaryLifo said:
I also think that Klopp's style of football will suffer the more other managers get a chance to figure out how to nullify it.
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This is something that's been repeated by people on here for a good while, as if Klopp's brand of football is particularly predictable and easy to overcome. It's not, obviously.
GaryLifo said:
Jose already showed the way at Anfield earlier this season.
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Did he? So why hasn't it been replicated since?

If the best opposition display could only get a 0-0 draw, has 'the way' really been shown?
 
GaryLifo said:
This makes an equally bold assumption that all his signings will be good enough and hit the ground running.
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So what will happen then? An outstanding manager with experience of European football and domestic success is likely to do well.

It's Klopp. He's very good at this stuff.
 
He really was the ideal manager for them.

They can't consistently sign the £40-80m players, so you need a manager that can make a team greater than it's individual parts should warrant, plus get the best out of what you have.

Lallana looks a new player, Henderson actually looks good and Wijnaldaum which I was laughing at them for signing seems good.

Very good manager and the one I would have wanted for us if we didn't have Jose.
 
They are really getting the benefit of playing lesser matches than other teams. Its no surprise they and chelsea are top of the table without any European commitments to bother them. That though should never be an excuse /play down their achievement. Still only halfway through, I see them faltering in the second half. Also wanna see how they cope without mane.
 
PickledRed said:
So what will happen then? An outstanding manager with experience of European football and domestic success is likely to do well.

It's Klopp. He's very good at this stuff.
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And nowhere have I said otherwise. He's clearly a top manager. I just don't think he'll win you the league this season or next. It's just my opinion as I stated previously.

I get fed up with the black and white nature of football debate to be honest. Saying I don't think he'll win you the title isn't the same as saying 'Klopp is shite'.
 
PickledRed said:
This is something that's been repeated by people on here for a good while, as if Klopp's brand of football is particularly predictable and easy to overcome. It's not, obviously.
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Not like his Dortmund side found themselves fighting their way up from the foot of the table at any point of his tenure there.
 
Alex99 said:
Not like his Dortmund side found themselves fighting their way up from the foot of the table at any point of his tenure there.
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Interesting that you use a tiny sample of Klopp's career (was it half a season?) to question his credentials. Am I allowed to mention Mourinho's Chelsea collapse and infer it characterises his abilities?
 
GaryLifo said:
And nowhere have I said otherwise. He's clearly a top manager. I just don't think he'll win you the league this season or next. It's just my opinion as I stated previously.

I get fed up with the black and white nature of football debate to be honest. Saying I don't think he'll win you the title isn't the same as saying 'Klopp is shite'.
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Black and white - like suggesting Jose 'showed the way at Anfield'. Hardly a statement steeped in nuance and complexity. Just some confirmation bias presented as analysis.
 
PickledRed said:
Interesting that you use a tiny sample of Klopp's career (was it half a season?) to question his credentials. Am I allowed to mention Mourinho's Chelsea collapse and infer it characterises his abilities?
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Mourinho's not known for playing the same style of football, wherever he is and whoever he's up against, whereas Klopp is. You can't find Mourinho out because there's nothing to find out. Stifle a Klopp team and that's it for them, it just happens that no one's really managed it as of yet in the PL
 
Alex99 said:
Mourinho's not known for playing the same style of football, wherever he is and whoever he's up against, whereas Klopp is. You can't find Mourinho out because there's nothing to find out. Stifle a Klopp team and that's it for them, it just happens that no one's really managed it as of yet in the PL
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A incredible post given Liverpool set up tonight in a fashion I haven't seen before. Adopting the low block, letting centre backs have the ball.
 
PickledRed said:
Black and white - like suggesting Jose 'showed the way at Anfield'. Hardly a statement steeped in nuance and complexity. Just some confirmation bias presented as analysis.
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It's not though is it. He showed a tactical set up that managed to nullify your attacking threats. We were the better side for the majority of the match and could have nicked it.

We won't play the same against you at home and I think we'll do a lot more going forwards than we did at Anfield.
 
GaryLifo said:
It's not though is it. He showed a tactical set up that managed to nullify your attacking threats. We were the better side for the majority of the match and could have nicked it.

We won't play the same against you at home and I think we'll do a lot more going forwards than we did at Anfield.
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Really? Didn't lay a glove on Liverpool. Set up to not get beat. De Gea produced two outstanding saves. Had a single chance that went 10 yards wide. United did a good job, no question. It was a dire match and a draw was fair but your memory of it is a tad distorted.

That aside, Jose hardly paved the way for others, did he? If he did why have Liverpool spent the season thumping a string of teams at Anfield? Why has the form maintained since that single draw three months ago?

The truth is, the reality of playing Liverpool is far more tough than is being made out. They're too good a side and Klopp's too good a manager for it to be reduced and overcome by a certain approach.
 
Okay I'm bored with this now.

You are now arguing that the Liverpool system is basically un-counterable which is daft.

The only other side who tried the same tactical approach at Anfield, was Sunderland and they went very close to shutting you out.

Burnley did similar and beat you.

You've a decent side and a good manager but I don't think it'll win you the league. This is my last post on this anyway as it's tedious as feck.
 
GaryLifo said:
Okay I'm bored with this now.

You are now arguing that the Liverpool system is basically un-counterable which is daft.

The only other side who tried the same tactical approach at Anfield, was Sunderland and they went very close to shutting you out.

Burnley did similar and beat you.

You've a decent side and a good manager but I don't think it'll win you the league. This is my last post on this anyway as it's tedious as feck.
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lol, its most definitely counterable, every system is.
Odly enough, the counter to our system seems to be.... our system. If a team can out press us, it more or less shuts us out.

Or you can always fall back to the good old 11 men behind the ball. That can work too.
 
Klopp got his tactics spot on today especially first half before they tired in the second. Left Stones and Otamendi with the ball and double up on KDB and Silva leaving us with nowhere to go bar Sterling or Yaya, the latter being easily pressed out of possession. 2nd half City improved and Liverpool tired but still maintained discipline (something Id never have thought). No arguments today, Klopp got it right and left City at sea for 60 minutes. their tenacity winning the ball is what made both teams look poor with it today.
 
GaryLifo said:
Okay I'm bored with this now.

You are now arguing that the Liverpool system is basically un-counterable which is daft.
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I think what he is arguing against is the idea that Klopp has a monolithic approach with a clear expiration date and that it is only a matter of time before he gets found out left right and centre.

Of course we will get found out here and there. I don't see anything to suggest it is on the cusp of spreading like wildfire. I think the way we attack is perhaps the most unpredictable in the league.
 
I think one of the biggest factors for Klopp is, that his team is simple the fittest. I studied his pre-seasons carefully for a while and haver never experienced it again. Heynckes was smart and he knew, that he can only win, if his team is functioning on all 11 positions too and every single player working his socks of and he made it work in an impressive manner.

Pep is a great coach one of the best, but IMO his teams are not that fit and that shows more in physical leagues such as PL or BL.
 
Players improve quite alot under him which is very impressive. Who would have thought that Lallana would be one of the best players in the league? They've backed some really mediocre managers in recent years, they need to really back him cause if this is what he can do with this bunch. imagine how far they'd go with some real quality throughout the sides.
 
Infordin said:
Klopp might do what he did in 2011/12 with Dortmund, that is not give the CL any attention whatsoever.
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Wasn't it the following season he did the reverse ? Put everything into the CL at the cost of the BL (still finished 2nd), topped their group, made the final ?
 
Wijnaldum vs City. He's quickly proven to be an outstanding buy and easily one of my favourite players of the season for us so far. This performance, the way Klopp let him off the leash to get further forward more often, is more reminiscent of his Newcastle form/positioning.

 
Just saw this re. out defensive formations when City were in possession. Maybe something to do with our impressive defensive form of late.

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RooneyLegend said:
Players improve quite alot under him which is very impressive. Who would have thought that Lallana would be one of the best players in the league? They've backed some really mediocre managers in recent years, they need to really back him cause if this is what he can do with this bunch. imagine how far they'd go with some real quality throughout the sides.
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The quality lies within the manager himself. He showed at Dortmund how he can turn ordinary players into extra-ordinary ones. He's now doing likewise with some of our lads. It's like a reverse of David Moyes. Takes over a title winning squad & turns them into dogshit.

I'd be quite happy & confident that whoever he buys will be a success..........Except Karius that is.
 
Maradona10 said:
They are really getting the benefit of playing lesser matches than other teams. Its no surprise they and chelsea are top of the table without any European commitments to bother them. That though should never be an excuse /play down their achievement. Still only halfway through, I see them faltering in the second half. Also wanna see how they cope without mane.
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Is it really down to us & Chelsea playing fewer games ? Or could it simply be down to the fact we both have top-notch managers who have gotten their respective sides into some sort of momentum ? Would City really be doing any better under Pep if they weren't playing in the CL ? Would United have turned those home draws against Burnley & Stoke into victories without having the exploits of the EL to contend with ? I'm pretty sure if you were to go back over the past 20 or so years you'd find that the team leading the pack at the half-way point would have been playing European football. Of course, that's not to say that over a full season playing fewer matches will be a big advantage. But we're only at the halfway point right now, so I don't believe any such advantage exists at the moment.
 
I am completely convinced that not having to play in Europe is a major factor when it comes to us dominating this season.

I'm only saying this for us though, our squad is small and weak, teams that spent billions on their teams of renowned talent don't really have an excuse for their failures, but a team with a small squad, sure, not playing European competitions is the most important factor out there. Leicester would have done much better without CL this season, I'm sure of it.

Of course, since two teams without Europe are at the top, I expect the debate surrounding this to start soon, but the problem these pundits will go after, will of course be about how tiring Europe is and how frustrating it is to travel to Russia every 3 weeks when playing in EL, rather than how pointless it is to play tons of matches between December and January, and how you don't get a breather in winter.

Because that is another major factor, the amount of home games. People keep wondering why English teams aren't dominant in Europe anymore, well perhaps it would be wise to look at the amount of fixtures that are played on the continent in this winter period for clues. In the age where even referees now admit (Clattenburg interview) that it's getting harder and harder for them to follow the game since it's getting so intense and players are fitter and press more, teams that get that winter break are most likely going to be performing much better in the new calendar year, as well as get back to competing without a long list of injuries.

Just saying.
 
redman5 said:
Is it really down to us & Chelsea playing fewer games ? Or could it simply be down to the fact we both have top-notch managers who have gotten their respective sides into some sort of momentum ? Would City really be doing any better under Pep if they weren't playing in the CL ? Would United have turned those home draws against Burnley & Stoke into victories without having the exploits of the EL to contend with ? I'm pretty sure if you were to go back over the past 20 or so years you'd find that the team leading the pack at the half-way point would have been playing European football. Of course, that's not to say that over a full season playing fewer matches will be a big advantage. But we're only at the halfway point right now, so I don't believe any such advantage exists at the moment.
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I think our draws came after europa league, I also know the only other time pool came close to winning the league was when they were not in europe. The extra rest does help a lot. 6 games in europa league coupled with more training and travelling will have quite an effect on any team. I dont say its the only factor but i think its a very very big factor for both you and chelsea.
In 6 days we played Liverpool(A), fenerbache and chelsea(a), After our players had arrived from international break. It is a big big factor. You would like to believe your team is billy big bollocks and to tell you the truth, you do have a good manager and good team. BUT if you add 8 more fixtures in your schedule i would easily see you losing points.
We lost to watford after playing feyenoord away
We lost to chelsea after fenerbace
We drew stoke after Zorya
We drew west ham again after feyenoord

We lost 9 points after Europa league games and i am not saying we would have got all of them but i think we would have more in the fuel tank and recovered at least 6 points. Specially stoke, west ham and watford.

Chelsea and pool have had an easier ride in this Regard. So my friend although you have a good team, lets not discount the no europe is helping you alot.
 
adexkola said:
If we can't win the league we should miss out on Europe next year, so that we'll be able to win the league next year. Or something.
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5 top signings and we can win both :D
 
Ugly game, but shown another string to their bow, annoyingly. Wouldn't have that resilience under Brentan. When is Coutinho back?
 
Rafateria said:
Wijnaldum vs City. He's quickly proven to be an outstanding buy and easily one of my favourite players of the season for us so far. This performance, the way Klopp let him off the leash to get further forward more often, is more reminiscent of his Newcastle form/positioning.

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Nobody saw this coming from him. Great buy.
 
SwansonsTache said:
He really was the ideal manager for them.

They can't consistently sign the £40-80m players, so you need a manager that can make a team greater than it's individual parts should warrant, plus get the best out of what you have.

Lallana looks a new player, Henderson actually looks good and Wijnaldaum which I was laughing at them for signing seems good.

Very good manager and the one I would have wanted for us if we didn't have Jose.
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You are a wise man.
 
Maradona10 said:
I think our draws came after europa league, I also know the only other time pool came close to winning the league was when they were not in europe. The extra rest does help a lot. 6 games in europa league coupled with more training and travelling will have quite an effect on any team. I dont say its the only factor but i think its a very very big factor for both you and chelsea.
In 6 days we played Liverpool(A), fenerbache and chelsea(a), After our players had arrived from international break. It is a big big factor. You would like to believe your team is billy big bollocks and to tell you the truth, you do have a good manager and good team. BUT if you add 8 more fixtures in your schedule i would easily see you losing points.
We lost to watford after playing feyenoord away
We lost to chelsea after fenerbace
We drew stoke after Zorya
We drew west ham again after feyenoord

We lost 9 points after Europa league games and i am not saying we would have got all of them but i think we would have more in the fuel tank and recovered at least 6 points. Specially stoke, west ham and watford.

Chelsea and pool have had an easier ride in this Regard. So my friend although you have a good team, lets not discount the no europe is helping you alot.
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The matches you quote were during a period when United were not firing on all cylinders. You've dropped points even when you didn't have a midweek game. Yet recently you've started to hit some good form in which you beat Spurs a few days after playing away to Zorya Luhansk, & you beat Swansea away just after playing away to Fenerbache. So there's no hard evidence, stats, or direct correlation to a side playing in Europe & not performing in the league. It's all about form. & at this moment in time Chelsea & ourselves are in very good form, whereas your side is starting to build up a head of steam.
 
For me the biggest praise for him is that in my opinion Liverpool have not quality in their squad like Chelsea, City and we do. Quality wise they are worse than Tottenham in my opinion.
But as a team they are as strong as Chelsea or United in last games and this is down to Klopp ability to apply system which turn good players into great.
 
redman5 said:
Is it really down to us & Chelsea playing fewer games ? Or could it simply be down to the fact we both have top-notch managers who have gotten their respective sides into some sort of momentum ? Would City really be doing any better under Pep if they weren't playing in the CL ? Would United have turned those home draws against Burnley & Stoke into victories without having the exploits of the EL to contend with ? I'm pretty sure if you were to go back over the past 20 or so years you'd find that the team leading the pack at the half-way point would have been playing European football. Of course, that's not to say that over a full season playing fewer matches will be a big advantage. But we're only at the halfway point right now, so I don't believe any such advantage exists at the moment.
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It's definitely an advantage. Not the only difference as I think the top two are genuinely better but enough to make a difference of a few points.

And it's not as if we play nobodies in the EL. Zlatan at 35 and Pogba who has been playing football non stop for ages play in our EL games too.
 
Jerch said:
For me the biggest praise for him is that in my opinion Liverpool have not quality in their squad like Chelsea, City and we do. Quality wise they are worse than Tottenham in my opinion.
But as a team they are as strong as Chelsea or United in last games and this is down to Klopp ability to apply system which turn good players into great.
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Yep. He's done a brilliant job thus far.

Thank feck for Chelsea and Conte. Without their brilliance we could have been looking at Liverpool as clear favorites to win the title as opposed sitting 6 points off top spot.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
It's definitely an advantage. Not the only difference as I think the top two are genuinely better but enough to make a difference of a few points.

And it's not as if we play nobodies in the EL. Zlatan at 35 and Pogba who has been playing football non stop for ages play in our EL games too.
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But haven't Zlatan and Pogba been your best performers so far ? At least the Caf seems to think so.

It's an interesting theory that many different bodies, official and otherwise (a UEFA report 'proved' there is no correlation to poor performance in your home league after EL matches - but that is far from the whole story). Personally I'm certain there will be but it may not really start to show until later in the season as players tire. For sure none of them should be tired in the 2nd or 3rd month of the season after 3-5 days of rest post a Euro game.

Stats

United - 29 games to date this season, record of 2-2-2 after Euro matches.
City - 29 & 4-2-2
Arsenal - 27 & 4-2-0
Spurs - 26 & 2-2-0

For information : Chelsea have played 22 matches so far this season and Liverpool 23 matches.
 
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