Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

Samid said:
I don't get this logic. If anything he has managed to attract even more pressure and attention to Karius.

All eyes will be on Karius tomorrow. Karius will probably be the main talking point at the Boro team meeting today.
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The pundits had aimed for their kill long before Klopp had said anything. What happened now is that Klopp basically said that the Nevilles are criticizing Karius not because he's shit but simply because they are biased towards Liverpool. That shifted some of the pressure/hatred away from Karius and back to the Nevs. Also it indirectly effect pundits like Carra because he'll now be careful what he says for fear of breaking ties with the one of the most important men in Liverpool FC.

Sure, Nev may end up fighting for his right to say what the hell he thinks. But do notice one thing. The fight had shifted from being between Neville and Karius to being between Neville and Klopp ie it moved from an argument between a pro decorated player vs a player who is shit in his job into an argument between a failed manager and a successful one. Its a fight that Gaz can never win.

Kudos for Klopp. He certainly knows how to play his mind game.
 
devilish said:
The pundits had aimed for their kill long before Klopp had said anything. What happened now is that Klopp basically said that the Nevilles are criticizing Karius not because he's shit but simply because they are biased towards Liverpool. That shifted some of the pressure/hatred away from Karius and back to the Nevs. Also it indirectly effect pundits like Carra because he'll now be careful what he says for fear of breaking ties with the one of the most important men in Liverpool FC.

Sure, Nev may end up fighting for his right to say what the hell he thinks. But do notice one thing. The fight had shifted from being between Neville and Karius to being between Neville and Klopp ie it moved from an argument between a pro decorated player vs a player who is shit in his job into an argument between a failed manager and a successful one. Its a fight that Gaz can never win.

Kudos for Klopp. He certainly knows how to play his mind game.
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I disagree mate, klopp's done a smart thing shifting the fight from karius vs neville to klopp vs neville, but it too is fraught with risk. As this picture lasts only until the next karius mistake, after that neville needn't say a word, as everyone else the other pundits, commentators, other media will do the job for him and then only thing klopp can do is either lash out against everyone or ignore or deflect as much as he can, in short a no win situation, which karius has himself created and which may even drag klopp back to earth from his high place the media has put him into before this.
 
Rafateria said:
That would be the last 20 mins when we ran West ham so ragged they were on the ropes and had FIVE players collapse to the turf at the final whistle ? Must be then.
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So you're answering my, "yeah they looked tired TBH" basically with saying ", they were more tired". Bloody brilliant.
 
BigCaine said:
I disagree mate, klopp's done a smart thing shifting the fight from karius vs neville to klopp vs neville, but it too is fraught with risk. As this picture lasts only until the next karius mistake, after that neville needn't say a word, as everyone else the other pundits, commentators, other media will do the job for him and then only thing klopp can do is either lash out against everyone or ignore or deflect as much as he can, in short a no win situation, which karius has himself created and which may even drag klopp back to earth from his high place the media has put him into before this.
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Pundits tend to avoid direct confrontation with the manager of a top club so they will tone down criticism a bit, at least for the time being. If Karius keep making mistakes then I bet the pundits will be the least of his concerns as he'll be shipped out of the team by Klopp himself.
 
Credit where it's due, Fergie would be proud of what Neville has done to Klopp. Now he's got to stand by his dogshit keeper.

Mind games are that easy, people.
 
What does he do now? Does he drop him or refuse to? He's genuinely dug himself, and Karius, a huge hole here. There were an infinite amount of better reactions than the one he gave, he's just put a lot more pressure on his goalkeeper.
 
Karius didn't even make any real mistakes. Not like, say, De Gea against Payet the other week.
 
Klopp finally rattled and making some pretty stupid comments to be honest. Him and Guardiola both finally being given a bit of stick from the media and pundits.
 
Judge Red said:
Credit where it's due, Fergie would be proud of what Neville has done to Klopp. Now he's got to stand by his dogshit keeper.

Mind games are that easy, people.
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Assuming Karius is dogshit and not just having a difficult start.

A difficult start we as United supporters seem to liberally afford our own incoming transfers. If Klopp bought him, he obviously (for now) believes he's good enough. Not saying he'll become De Gea but the idea this has forced him to play a 'shit keeper' is a bit of mindfeck to me - he bought him and was always going to play him.
 
devilish said:
Pundits tend to avoid direct confrontation with the manager of a top club so they will tone down criticism a bit, at least for the time being. If Karius keep making mistakes then I bet the pundits will be the least of his concerns as he'll be shipped out of the team by Klopp himself.
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But then klopp can't drop him just like that, he has backed his man, now if things go wrong he will have to still back him atleast until there are more than a few howlers, while klopp did what he thought was best it is a very risky approach, he hasn't reduced the pressure off karius, he has put him in more of a spotlight and if karius's performances are anything to go by neville will be the one laughing at the end of this drama. Also pundits avoid direct confrontations, but i have not seen many managers having direct confrontations with specific pundits, this will not end well for klopp unless karius suddenly turns into a good keeper.
 
B20 said:
I want them to not act like dickheads when they dish out casual criticism. They in fact were the ones to start suggesting the other side should shut up. Even as pundits, it seems they can't handle criticism.
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Being dickheads is a bit of a subjective matter. Your example only really works on Phil as he was the one who said Karius should shut up (I still personally find it bemusing that Karius did an interview when he's not a top player and still fairly establishing himself - but there's nothing wrong with it.) All Gary did was highlight the fact that he made the same statements as Carragher to Karius and then Klopp. There is definitely an air of hypocrisy in the latter for ignoring Carragher who recently commented on Karius' performance.

I do agree that as pundits they can't handle criticism, everyone involved here is quite precious in their reaction.
 
BigCaine said:
But then klopp can't drop him just like that, he has backed his man, now if things go wrong he will have to still back him atleast until there are more than a few howlers, while klopp did what he thought was best it is a very risky approach, he hasn't reduced the pressure off karius, he has put him in more of a spotlight and if karius's performances are anything to go by neville will be the one laughing at the end of this drama. Also pundits avoid direct confrontations, but i have not seen many managers having direct confrontations with specific pundits, this will not end well for klopp unless karius suddenly turns into a good keeper.
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He might say that the unfair criticism by the media is affecting the keeper, forcing his hand in making him sit on the bench for a couple of games. Karius will be made a victim and the Nevilles will be made as the ideal scapegoats for it. Managers love to do that. Take Fellaini as an example. Mou was so kind in dedicating our victory to him despite the fact that he only trusted him to play for like 30 seconds in that same game. Also note he was extremely careful not to criticize the fans. Having spent in Italy/Spain for years he knows the true power of the people and he wishes to avoid having to face it at OT.

In reality managers hate to have somebody pointing out at their mistakes and will full guns blazing to defend themselves against any sort of criticism even when they secretly acknowledge that they were wrong. It happened many times with much better managers

The real victim here is Carra. How would he react after what happened? Will he stick to his pundit mates or to his former club?
 
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Klopp did the right thing, he is clearly talking to his own players.
 
devilish said:
He might say that the unfair criticism by the media is affecting the keeper, forcing his hand in making him sit on the bench for a couple of games. Karius will be made a victim and the Nevilles will be made as the ideal scapegoats for it. Managers love to do that. Take Fellaini as an example. Mou was so kind in dedicating our victory to him despite the fact that he only trusted him to play for like 30 seconds in that same game. Also note he was extremely careful not to criticize the fans. Having spent in Italy/Spain for years he knows the true power of the people and he wishes to avoid having to face it at OT.

In reality managers hate to have somebody pointing out at their mistakes and will full guns blazing to defend themselves against any sort of criticism even when they secretly acknowledge that they were wrong. It happened many times with much better managers

The real victim here is Carra. How would he react after what happened? Will he stick to his pundit mates or to his former club?
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What you say is plausible but i don't think that is how this will play out, take any article on klopp's comments and you will see carragher has been mentioned as the chief critic of karius and on reading it atleast to me it looks as if klopp is saying you failed as a manager so your opinions don't count, now ofcourse liverpool fans won't see it that way but i think most neutrals will, also i think that is the way media want to play this out, dropping karius due to media pressure won't sit well with liverpool fans now unless karius's performances continue dropping as that will paint a picture of manc pundit making sure that a liverpool player is benched, a picture that klopp himself painted by singling the nevilles out. If karius's performances keep going down neville still comes out on top as he will be proven correct in his criticism. Only way this ends well for klopp is karius starts playing well, which i don't think will happen with the pressure he is under.

You are comparing apples with oranges in this case by bringing in fellaini, mourinho did not complain about fellaini's criticism and definitely did not do it to win brownie points with supporters and fans, he is just using it to get back at media given the constant criticism, i agree with the fans part and i really would like to see what carragher has to say in this.
 
devilish said:
The real victim here is Carra. How would he react after what happened? Will he stick to his pundit mates or to his former club?
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He already came out after the West Ham match on Sunday backing Neville and hitting out at Karius again... told him to 'shut up and do your job'... which according Carragher would involve not letting in Payet's freekick.
 
BigCaine said:
What you say is plausible but i don't think that is how this will play out, take any article on klopp's comments and you will see carragher has been mentioned as the chief critic of karius and on reading it atleast to me it looks as if klopp is saying you failed as a manager so your opinions don't count, now ofcourse liverpool fans won't see it that way but i think most neutrals will, also i think that is the way media want to play this out, dropping karius due to media pressure won't sit well with liverpool fans now unless karius's performances continue dropping as that will paint a picture of manc pundit making sure that a liverpool player is benched, a picture that klopp himself painted by singling the nevilles out. If karius's performances keep going down neville still comes out on top as he will be proven correct in his criticism. Only way this ends well for klopp is karius starts playing well, which i don't think will happen with the pressure he is under.

You are comparing apples with oranges in this case by bringing in fellaini, mourinho did not complain about fellaini's criticism and definitely did not do it to win brownie points with supporters and fans, he is just using it to get back at media given the constant criticism, i agree with the fans part and i really would like to see what carragher has to say in this.
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As SAF would say it, players, these days are 'fragile'. (Dev would say it that they are a bunch of spoiled, overpaid and overhyped boys). If Karius was made silly and no one in the club stepped in to defend him then he would probably feel he lack support from the club. That could potentially affect his mates too who'll think that no one will defend them if they are in that same situation. No manager can afford having the dressing room turned against him

Also as I already told you managers tend to hate anyone telling them how to do their job. Hence why Mourinho was so keen to attribute to win to Fellaini and was far less keen in giving him minutes to play. He wasn't defending Fellaini he was defending his decision of playing him the way he did.

Neutrals will always boo opponents and pundits will always pick upon the players they don't like/rate. What Klopp is probably afraid of is having Liverpool supporters turning against his keeper or if his keeper think that the club isn't supporting him. He mitigated to that by shifting criticism from Karius over the people Liverpool fans love to hate.

SAF did something similar many moons ago when the class of 92 burst into scene. During that time, SAF (who was far more vulnerable at that time then now) faced a rebellion from Ince and Kanchelskis, who were fans favourite and key players in the team. Ultimately he decided that his authority> having 2 of the best players in their role around and therefore he allowed them to leave. Unfortunately the club wasn't able to bring him adequate replacement (SAF was desperate for Anderton) and we had to make due to what we had (which was alot but no one really knew that). At the time Hansen came out with the famous 'you can never win with kids' jab whom, come to think of it, was a realistic assessment to what was going on. SAF diverted any criticism towards the club's inability to bring him top quality players all over Hansen and used that jab to rally the troops so they can prove this Scouser 'bastard' who hated our club so much that he was wrong. We still laugh at him till this very day.
 
GaryLifo said:
I can answer Klopp's question regarding why Neville is allowed to comment on Karius' performances and perceived abilities.

It's called 'freedom of speech' Jurgen. You know the thing you are enjoying when you make your counter-comments and criticisms of the Nevilles.

A nothing story when you put it in these terms. Two grown men who are clearly qualified to discuss football, exercise right to freedom of speech in order to give opinions on football related matters.

Stop the presses.
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Totally agree.

Their job is to comment and give their opinion on players, teams and football in general. It's not "helping players when they are in a poor run of form and need confidence".
 
I see the Neville's have been attacked by that average footballer & worse football pundit on television Chris Sutton, comparing them to the Mitchell brother. Despite his faults Gary Neville is a good pundit, talking sense, unlike the idiotic windbag Sutton.
 
AlwaysRed66 said:
I see the Neville's have been attacked by that average footballer & worse football pundit on television Chris Sutton, comparing them to the Mitchell brother. Despite his faults Gary Neville is a good pundit, talking sense, unlike the idiotic windbag Sutton.
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I seen that too, this is getting more ridiculous by the day :lol:
 
devilish said:
Pundits tend to avoid direct confrontation with the manager of a top club so they will tone down criticism a bit, at least for the time being. If Karius keep making mistakes then I bet the pundits will be the least of his concerns as he'll be shipped out of the team by Klopp himself.
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Not a chance that Neville will tone down his criticism if he thinks it's justified, I seriously doubt Carra would either. They were just doing their job. If Karius can't handle pundits calling him out for playing badly, that's his problem. Loads of players get slated after bad games, it's not as if it Karius has been singled out. He's just the only one who couldn't take it on the chin and then made a poor decision to respond directly. Because of this, Klopp's now been dragged into it. Karius has just made Klopp's decision to drop him much easier as he can't risk him having another stinker now.
 
Cristiano Lell said:
Karius didn't even make any real mistakes. Not like, say, De Gea against Payet the other week.
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Yeah he didn't make any real mistakes. Just that he is a wimp of a keeper and make Mignolet seem like a better keeper. People target him like they do vs Bravo.
 
Rafateria said:
If that's how you interpret it I suggest you take English comprehension lessons.
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Go on than, feel free to express what you meant. You know there is no need to be arrogant just because someone has a different opinion than you and my opinion is that they looked tired compared to the way they looked in previous games.
 
Merson made a valid point today - Klopp is feeling the pressure and I agree.
 
The outcome of the argument is this:

1. The goalkeeper of Liverpool is under added pressure just as the defence has fallen apart.

2. Gary Neville and Sky Sports get added exposure.

Klopp lost because he thought the psychological warfare was between Liverpool and Man Utd. The only football team that is effected is his. Gary Neville has done the job his employers expect of him and is well aware that he failed at Valencia. That's why he's back at Sky Sports. But at least unlike Klopp, he can say he's never taken a club to relegation as a manager.
 
bond19821982 said:
Merson made a valid point today - Klopp is feeling the pressure and I agree.
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See I only partially agree with this. If you read the quotes then it indicates that the person who said them is under pressure.

However if you watch a video of the press conference then Klopp's demeanour is far from that of someone who is under a great deal of stress. He even joked immediately after his Neville comments that the media had their headline.

Dropped points tomorrow won't help anything though.
 
Karius is making loads of mistakes but so did de gea. could be an adjustment period to get used to the pace and strength of the epl.

I think it's premature to make assumptions on him just yet, probably needs a year to bed in and he is young. I for one hope they keep with him and he continues to make mistakes.

At end of day de gea lived with constant grueling of critics but came out the better man. saying that he was an obvious talent and was a lot younger!
 
Ochre teeth didn't like something a TV pundit said. Happens all the time.

For example, Redknapp is quite clearly enjoying the upper hand on Mourinho after Mourinho went after him whilst at Chelsea.

Has the bedraggled one had a pop at Caragher?
 
devilish said:
The pundits had aimed for their kill long before Klopp had said anything. What happened now is that Klopp basically said that the Nevilles are criticizing Karius not because he's shit but simply because they are biased towards Liverpool. That shifted some of the pressure/hatred away from Karius and back to the Nevs. Also it indirectly effect pundits like Carra because he'll now be careful what he says for fear of breaking ties with the one of the most important men in Liverpool FC.

Sure, Nev may end up fighting for his right to say what the hell he thinks. But do notice one thing. The fight had shifted from being between Neville and Karius to being between Neville and Klopp ie it moved from an argument between a pro decorated player vs a player who is shit in his job into an argument between a failed manager and a successful one. Its a fight that Gaz can never win.

Kudos for Klopp. He certainly knows how to play his mind game.
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A lot of people will be watching Karius now after the Klopp-neville stuff. Klopp may claim its a United bias attacking but I would guess most people know he's actually been shit and critised by a ex Liverpool legend too in carragher.

I think he's put a lot more pressure on his keeper
 
Klopper76 said:
See I only partially agree with this. If you read the quotes then it indicates that the person who said them is under pressure.

However if you watch a video of the press conference then Klopp's demeanour is far from that of someone who is under a great deal of stress. He even joked immediately after his Neville comments that the media had their headline.

Dropped points tomorrow won't help anything though.
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You don't bring the history of Man united rivalry needlessly into an argument without a reason. He should have just responded to Neville's comments and stopped right there.
 
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Firminho has changed since he came to Liverpool.
 
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