If only Arsenal lost, then I'd say long live LVG.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
I though we were the boring ones, but this team was not only incapable of creating anything, they were actually negative and really tried to get away with a 0-0.
If klopp doesn't get 4th, it would be a let down for them. Challenging for 4th is something Rodgers would have done anyway.
Nah.
Of course he would have. He did it last season too. Nothign suggests he wouldn't have this season. It's easy to say he's rubbish now given Liverpool fans disowned him in a jiffy. But in truth he was a good manager who didn't do badly for them at all.
Out of curiosity what makes you put him in the good category.
He really did not do anything prior to joining Liverpool as a manager. The credit for Swansea always amazed me when you consider he took them over when they had already built a foundation and style that he just tweaked. There were no major changes or improvements.
At Liverpool, ignoring the 'nearly won the league year' in which some players like Suarez were exceptional, and it could be argued he screwed up, he kept them relatively in the same position as when he took over each year.
So what is he actually good at?
Rodgers is a good attacking football coach with some bright ideas. Even his biggest detractors at Liverpool will acknowledge that.
It's his man management, team selection, transfer planning and inability to organise a defence that leave a lot to be desired.
Liverpool have had some great results upon Klopp's arrival, but Rodgers would have them on a similar number of points. He's an idiot, one of the biggest in football, but he's not a bad manager.
It's his man management, team selection, transfer planning and inability to organise a defence that leave a lot to be desired.
Liverpool have had some great results upon Klopp's arrival, but Rodgers would have them on a similar number of points. He's an idiot, one of the biggest in football, but he's not a bad manager.
Bullshitting people like amol into believing he's a good manager.
For the same achievements that you aren't giving him credit for. He did do well at Swansea just like a few others did (and monk is not able to now). That phase of establishing themselves as a premier league team was very important for that football club. Just because they have a foundation doesn't mean he didnt achieve anything. That's like saying Koeman achieved nothing at Southampton because pochettino did well. Simply not true. You still have to have quality as a manager to achieve what the foundations begin for you. Teams don't manage themselves.
And coming close to the title with Liverpool was a very a big achievement. One that eventually was disappointing for them partly because their captain bottled it but it still was a great effort form the whole unit. Yes, Suarez made it possible. But it should be stressed that one good player doesn't make a team. They were a brilliant team that season. Suarez isn't alone the reason why they played some of the most swashbuckling football I've seen in the premier league in recent times. Think of how well Henderson played, how well sterling developed under him. Even Gerrard was peforming well in a deep role. The unit was brilliant, and over achieved by miles. I hate to say but had he won the league it would have been a truly special accomplishment. So yeah, of course he deserves credit. Although I enjoy mocking Liverpool by saying it was Suarez, he really isn't good enough to do that to a team. No footballer is, otherwise Messi would have two world cups and a copa America to his name. The team element of football is very important.
So yeah in a nutshell of course they would have challenged for 4th. It isn't difficult to challenge for 4th these days, and they did it last season despite having a mediocre year.
Yep. He's not achieved greatness or anything. He's got to prove he's good in the transfer market, at man management etc. But he's done some good things in the game so far. It's foolish to suggest otherwise just because he's a man who says weird things.
You make it sound like he's Tim Sherwood.
Presuming Chelsea continue to falter and Leicester slip away, I suspect Rodgers may have given Spurs a decent challenge for a top 4 place, but it's hardly a guarantee. They looked distinctly average under him, like a meddling mid-table side.
I partially agree with your opinion on him, I would temper it by saying I think he is a good coach and an average manager. However given their form when he left I can't see any reason why it would have improved. Last season was last season, this season he has found himself in charge of a hopelessly out of form side having wasted just about every penny he was handed in transfer fees.
Most Liverpool fans and outside observers could see that his methods were no longer working. I could see them challenging for top 6 at best but I could not see them keeping pace with us (slow pace that it is), Man city, Arsenal or Chelsea (after the break). I think the usual top 4 would have all finish comfortably ahead of them without any fuss, with Klopp that might change (early days).
Did his "methods" stop working around the time the sold Suarez and Sturridge got injured? I suspect pundits and fans will note that Klopps philosophy is real starting to bear fruit once Sturridge is starting regularly and things will really start to click once he's spent a fortune on some good players!
I've mentioned his shitty record in the transfer market which added to his overall team set up was the reason for his last few dismal months. But yes his method and setup were a problem which was acerbated but the sale of Suarez and Sturridge's injury issues as well as the inadequate replacements the season before.
Hahaha Newcastle! So much for being the saviour of the universe.. good enough for him. Redtwat and Thommo got it wrong again!
Not really buying this. It's an advantage simply cos you're more likely to gain points against the top teams at home rather than away.
More likely yes but as Klopp is proving you can do even worse in "easier" fixtures.
I agree with that. But given his age I thought it was fair to give him a "good" rating. He has plenty of time to improve the other aspects of his management. And to be fair, this summer wasn't bad for them IMO. There was a time everyone was raving about their summer business so he did improve over last summer. Although it's hard to tell who is his signing and who is somone else's. I mean people need to be honest with themselves a little. Could Moyes have gotten Liverpool playing the football they did in 13/14? How many PL managers would I wonder? It's just commonplace to build people up as hugely impressive (which everyone thought of Rodgers earlier) and then call them rubbish (which is now the narrative). The truth is somewhere in between as usual. He was neither the messiah nor the terrible.
I just don't feel it takes a lot to challenge for 4th now. Liverpool challenged for 4th last season despite disappointing so many people. I can't see how they would totally not be in the mix with Rodgers. Players like Benteke and Firmino were new so he'd naturally expect to get more out of them with time.
I thought they had played all the tough matches and are now going to sweep the minnows aside?
Having followed his Dortmund side, you'd know this is exactly his weakness. His high pressing, hit them quickly style isn't anywhere close to being that effective vs small teams who defend deep with numbers. Always works well against big teams that come out to dominate.
Absolutely. I was just taking the piss at all the posts claiming "Oh noes, they've played all the tough matches!".
It's quite strange how LVG gets so much slacks for having just 1 effective style while klopp is praised to the heavens ignoring the fact that he's the same.
LVG's style is not as exciting as Klopp's, I thought that was the main criticism? Not that it isn't effective (although lately it is looking less and less effective)
It depends on the competition for it I think. At the moment, it would be a bit of a let down. It's there for the taking.
I wouldn't agree that it's there for the taking to be honest. Spurs (or Arsenal or United) could easily say it's there for the keeping too. But given you changed managers that has to be the expectation.
Klopp's style won't be very exciting in most games they are the favorites for either. I followed their game yesterday on the Caf and all the posts alluded to a very dull game.
His Dortmund side excelled in games where they weren't required to beat 10 man defences. Time will tell if he has learned new tricks but if he hasn't, teams sitting deep vs pool will cause them a lot of issues.
I have a feeling that he will find it even more difficult to break down defensive sides in the PL than he did in the Bundesliga. There are a lot of teams in the PL who are excellent defensively and really good at the counter attack which imo is also the main reason this league is so unpredictable.
Oh I know they will see it similarly. At the end of the day, if we finished 5th but at least gave it a good go while losing out because there were four teams who were simply better, I will be satisfied with that.
Fair enough. As a fan that's the sensible way to look at it. I still feel he himself/the ownership would expect 4th given they changed the manager for a reason. But yeah, patience is very important.
A one dimensional manager and his teams can easily be contained, unlike LVG and his intelligent pressing he is not the best defensive manager so he will lost more games.
So his Dortmund team won titles because they were just fortunate to never come up against teams that parked the bus? They never learned how to beat sides that sat back? That just doesn't seem right to me. Although I didn't watch a lot of them so maybe it was the case.
I never said they were fortunate or they got lucky. You don't win 2 titles on luck. But yeah, once sides started sitting back, they found it very tough to break them down and especially after their 2nd title, sides started doing that to them.
The biggest difference is he had more quality in Dortmund.
Fair enough. Seems poor that it took two seasons of Dortmund dominating before teams realised they should maybe not be so open. Will be interesting to see if he has learned from this since leaving.
Unless the teams play Bayern (or sometimes Dortmund), to park the bus isn't a tactic you'll see a lot in the Bundesliga. In Germany many lower teams try to play the ball out of the defence and try to get behind the opponets defence with fast wingers.
Even Bayern is stoppable as this weekend showed. Gladbach outplayed Bayern in the second half.
That's another reason he will find it harder here. Coaches like Pulis, Allerdyce and co have no problem playing the whole match in their 18 yard box.
That depends. If the difference in strength/stature is very big, like for example when teams play Dortmund or Bayern it is expected, because almost all teams do it. Otherwise I think not so much, because since the likes of Klopp, Favre, Tuchel and of course Guardiola people expect some kind of "match plan" or philosophy/concept from coaches, some sign of a persistent approach that is visibile throughout the matches and parking the bus isn't a credo people associate with sustainable growth.
Or you can just take Darmstadt as an example, on paper they are the perfect underdog: the poorest club in the league by a mile, literally no transfer budget to work with, but on the other hand they are pretty successful within their means, since they went straight from 3rd to 1st division without anyone expecting it and despite people expecting them to follow the footsteps of Tasmania they actually made it to a solid midtable position. If you view things objectively you have to admire or at least respect them for their historic achievement.
But they play ultra defensive outdated football, so over the course of the season more and more people started to loath them.
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Frogie: Klopp worries me
Sir Alex Ferguson has admitted he is worried by the impact Jurgen Klopp will have at Liverpool.
Despite the weekend defeat to Newcastle United, former Manchester United manager Ferguson has seen enough of Klopp to believe he will rejuvenate his old team’s great rivals. Asked about Klopp at the TechCrunch event in London, Ferguson said: “I’m worried about him because the one thing United don’t want is Liverpool to get above us.
“He’s a fantastic personality, with those big white teeth always showing. Even at Newcastle when they lost the second goal he goes over to Steve McClaren to congratulate him. That’s class, that. And the work he did at Dortmund.
“I know him quite well from the coaching seminars. He’s going to make a difference at that club with his personality, drive and knowledge. Things are looking up there.”
Klopp has already won over the English media and Ferguson believes that is half the battle for managers, admitting he used to splash his face with cold water before facing the press.
“You have to win twice on a Saturday,” said Ferguson. “You have to win the game and you have to win the press conference. Some managers fail, simply because they lack experience or they’re emotional.
“You have to gather yourself. I used to wash my face before a press conference. Sometimes you’re forced to go to the press conference immediately and you have to be thinking quickly about how you deal with it. It’s an important part.
“You have to give a message to your fans because they’re watching. They want to see their manager come out with a positive attitude and not a beaten man.
“Time and again you see coaches come out a beaten man after a few difficult questions about how the team played and why they lost.
“I tended to waffle a bit when there was a difficult question to make sure my thinking was right. You’ve got to handle the press. It’s a very difficult part of it.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...r-Alex-Ferguson-on-new-Liverpool-manager.html
Sir Alex Ferguson has admitted he is worried by the impact Jurgen Klopp will have at Liverpool.
Despite the weekend defeat to Newcastle United, former Manchester United manager Ferguson has seen enough of Klopp to believe he will rejuvenate his old team’s great rivals. Asked about Klopp at the TechCrunch event in London, Ferguson said: “I’m worried about him because the one thing United don’t want is Liverpool to get above us.
“He’s a fantastic personality, with those big white teeth always showing. Even at Newcastle when they lost the second goal he goes over to Steve McClaren to congratulate him. That’s class, that. And the work he did at Dortmund.
“I know him quite well from the coaching seminars. He’s going to make a difference at that club with his personality, drive and knowledge. Things are looking up there.”
Klopp has already won over the English media and Ferguson believes that is half the battle for managers, admitting he used to splash his face with cold water before facing the press.
“You have to win twice on a Saturday,” said Ferguson. “You have to win the game and you have to win the press conference. Some managers fail, simply because they lack experience or they’re emotional.
“You have to gather yourself. I used to wash my face before a press conference. Sometimes you’re forced to go to the press conference immediately and you have to be thinking quickly about how you deal with it. It’s an important part.
“You have to give a message to your fans because they’re watching. They want to see their manager come out with a positive attitude and not a beaten man.
“Time and again you see coaches come out a beaten man after a few difficult questions about how the team played and why they lost.
“I tended to waffle a bit when there was a difficult question to make sure my thinking was right. You’ve got to handle the press. It’s a very difficult part of it.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...r-Alex-Ferguson-on-new-Liverpool-manager.html
Yet he recommended Moyes. I'm sure he must ask himself what he was thinking sometimes.