If he is smart he should keep away from Madrid at his current age
Julian Nagelsmann | Sacked and replaced by Tuchel
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1. He has never needed money to succeed. Spurs has more resources than all his other jobs bar Bayern
2. Its a club that does best with project managers. He is amongst the finest
3. The first team squad is reasonably competitive. The youngsters aren't trash.
4. His strength is developing young talents and improving good players. Spurs have both
5. He is good enough to best the other competitors for a UCL spot this season.
6. The club has no winning ambition. He would be free to instill it himself.
7. He'd gain top experience in thee best league. Bidding his time for a truly big job in the future. He could rebuild spurs in his image and make it truly successful as that happens
1. Competing in the PL is different to the Bundesliga - significant resources are a necessity (and weren't RB Leipzig big spenders relative to the competition?).
2. Agreed. Still, the PL is a completely different landscape than when Poch was able to build his 'project' at Spurs.
3. Meh, it's very much a mixed bag. It needs significant overhaul, particularly to build a squad in his image. The best players are winding down. Kane has one year left, Lloris is done, Son's star has dramatically faded and then there's the likes of Hojbjerg and Kulusevski who are definitely useful. Beyond that, it's largely underwhelming.
4. Who are the young talents? I genuinely don't know so interested to learn more.
5. Agreed.
6. They might not having a winning culture, but there's absolutely an expectation of success despite spending less than teams around them.
7. Agreed that competing in the PL would be a good experience, but there's a huge margin for error at Spurs whereas taking a job in Italy/PSG/potentially Madrid(?) would be a much safer option at this juncture in his career.
I think it's mainly fans that think this negatively. Managers would want assurances, for certain. Usually around the market because they're all out for as much as they can get. But they usually have a giant ego that says they'll be the ones to progress things where others failed. Seeing Conte play 5 at the back and bore everyone to tears would have ambitious managers thinking there's an opportunity there.
It's not unattractive as a job. Great stadium, great facilities which means there is no excuse for not doing your bread and butter correctly as a manager. A squad currently capable of the top 4 in the PL which makes it a great entrance point to PL riches. The manager has been backed in recent times.
I don't think Conte had many valid excuses for his poor performance, especially in cups and in the way he destroyed any semblance of good will towards himself from fans and players and therefore there are lots of reasons to take it on.
Poor performance? Where do you think Spurs should be this season? Above Man United?
I've qualified that slightly as I didn't mean to imply they have been poor in the league. I mean he's been a poor overall manager for Spurs as he took a hand grenade to the club, didn't improve anyone, failed in cups in winnable games, and had fans turning the TV off.
I don’t think managers really care about stadiums to be honest, Pep seems happy playing in a graveyard every other week. Facilities yes but I doubt there’s that much difference between the CL clubs - really it comes down to can he see himself winning things there and they ain’t winning the league or CL so would he go just to try and get a domestic cup?
Maybe, but he's just been sacked from his post. Right now he may not be able to dictate that he lands at a club with immediate prospects of winning the league or CL. He might need to do a building job and improve players. Maybe he can get a ready made gig, maybe he can't - I don't really know but there's only a handful of clubs of that echelon and he wouldn't be first on my list if I was one of them if I'm being honest. It also depends where he sees himself, the PL is incredibly attractive and if you want to come here then the top 2-3 jobs don't just materialize every day.
I'm not so much trying to state Nagelsmann is definitively interested in Spurs, I just think it's way more attractive than people give it credit for. It wouldn't shock me if he did land there. There is a lot of good points there if we see past the media narratives of doom and gloom.
I also don't see why it couldn't be a fit. It's a manager that's young, can develop players, can work within a project like he did at RB with an interesting style of play to get the fans on side. That's the job at Spurs, you have to build them like Poch did as a young manager. It really is about improving people and playing exciting football, you get way more latitude that way which is important so you have a period of a few years to get a team playing.
People are talking about him not going to Spurs like he was destined for Madrid.
At big clubs with big players and demands he will most likely face similar issues to Bayern. He does not seem ready for something like that yet. Can’t see him lasting even 1 season at Madrid or PSG. And most other big clubs aren’t looking to change managers anytime soon and even if they did I can’t imagine Nagelsmann being their preferred choice. I see him at Emery level and Emery is more experienced but still hardly top clubs‘ preferred choice.
Spurs or Newcastle would be good opportunities for Nagelsmann in the PL. With Newcastle and their financial power he may even further improve them and win their first trophy in ages.
At big clubs with big players and demands he will most likely face similar issues to Bayern. He does not seem ready for something like that yet. Can’t see him lasting even 1 season at Madrid or PSG. And most other big clubs aren’t looking to change managers anytime soon and even if they did I can’t imagine Nagelsmann being their preferred choice. I see him at Emery level and Emery is more experienced but still hardly top clubs‘ preferred choice.
Spurs or Newcastle would be good opportunities for Nagelsmann in the PL. With Newcastle and their financial power he may even further improve them and win their first trophy in ages.
Yeah it’s not like they’re Burnley and trying to attract him but I think there are complexities that are quite unique to Spurs which make it a tier 2 job. Mainly that they need almost a complete rebuild if they want to win major trophies and that will be gradual and take 5+ years in my opinion. For what it’s worth I actually think he’s massively overrated and Spurs are probably safer not looking at him but it’s more about how highly the football world seems to rate him. I think Spurs should be looking at poaching De Zerbi assuming they fall outside of Europe.
Would be career suicide for him to go to Spurs.
He was at Hoffenhaim too remember? His work there got him the step up to RBL. His work there with less cash than at Bayern got him the step up to Bayern too.
It is. Yet still Nagglesmann is a different class of manager to Poch. I'd back him to squeeze outta Spurs the kinda leap of improvement Arteta has gotten from Arsenal between January of last season and now.
Lloris can be replaced cheaper than you think. Son is just having a dip. He has reliable men like Bentancur, Davies, Hoijbjerg and Kulusevski. So much more can be gotten out of the likes of Richarlyson, Romero, Rodon, Dier, Sanchez, Ssesegnon and Bissouma to name a few The likes of Djed Spence and Udogie will be on the books in the summer. Parrot, Sarr and Skipp can be developed further. Bentancur and Kulusevski too. Not to mention if Kane chose to go the funds can be reinvested wisely even If youngsters were bought instead RBL style. Honestly in the hands of a Nagglesmann I'd day they'd be more reason for optimism than a 'meh' diagnosis for their future and their current squad.
There are the known ones like Spence, Sarr and Sssegnon. They have Udogie from Udinese a potential star left back/wing back of the future. Teenagee Dane Scarlett is an interesting propsect of a forward in right hands.
. I can't fault them for it to be fair. In my view over the last 6 seasons they have had the tools to win an fa or cabrao cup if they had really gone for it. Save for Mourinho. Their managers never took domestic cups seriously enough
Personally I believe the two most unsafe jobs are PSG and Real Madrid. The margin for error is non existent and the expectations are sky high. That job suits best already established and experienced bosses with Huge winning CVS. Anyone inexperienced or without a massive CV gets chewed up and spat out. Which could be career suicide. I mean just look how Poche pre PSG went from being wanted up and down as first choice to being second or third choice for top jobs, post PSG
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Don't rule it out so quickly. They even gave Lopetegui the job not so long ago
We'll never know as Nagglesman already rejected the Spurs gig, obviously waiting for someone bigger to come knocking. From his POV, clubs like Real, PSG or Chelsea seem certainly like more adequate picks, more in tune with a man of his stature and ambition
He will end up being the manager version of Havertz
Being sacked by Bayern is not the be all end all... just look at Ancelotti.
Not the same. Ancelotti was already a 3-times CL winner and a world class manager before he even joined Bayern.
But yeah, being sacked by Bayern will not really stand in the way of Nagelsmann getting another top job.
People said we needed a complete rebuild and we were worse than Spurs last season. Suddenly a good fit for a manager comes in and it looks a lot better. In the end it probably will be a complete rebuild by the time ETH is satisfied, but the point is you can make incremental improvements that make the team look better, make individuals improve and show their worth, and maybe even bag a cup if you actually give them respect. So really a "5 year rebuild" is not as punishing as it sounds for a managerial career. It depends if you actually want to manage or just knock the ball into the net like Conte seemed to expect (which was ridiculous at Spurs)
To give an example, they sign Yves Bissouma as one of the most promising midfield talents in the league, and now he looks Championship calibre because they're playing such tumescent football and he probably has no idea what the manager wants. Son, Kulusevski should produce more, persuade Kane. Hojberg isn't a bad footballer, Romero isn't a bad footballer. There's talent there.
Agreed on De Zerbi, he would be a fantastic shout and probably perfectly suited to it. He's improved Brighton as a team and individuals from an already high starting point, with Spurs there are more ingredients to work with.
It’s more that your two main goal threats are Kane (might be off) and Son who is soon to turn 31 and a player who is very reliant on pace. He’s still a good player but will be less and less effective.
I like Kulu and Richarlison, Hojberg is a very good player and there are some decent players in there but you need to be in the CL and those places are really competitive now.
Your defence isn’t great, that alone could probably be rectified in a couple of seasons if Levy sanctions good spending but Kane will be irreplaceable. With a top manager you can scrap for top 4 next season but if Kane goes I feel like you might as well wave goodbye to CL football for a few years at least.
I'm not a Spurs fan by the way! Just somebody that gets bored with the predictable narratives around them being awful when they're not really, they're just kind of par and with the wrong manager. Plus blaming everything on Levy so I like to play devil's advocate on Spursy stuff. I wonder if Levy was at the tactics board when they lost to Sheffield United or made the decision to play 5 at the back all season long. Where Levy has to improve is making a good managerial choice because it really does come down to that as we have found at our club. All the rest is mostly noise.
They need a lot of work, especially if Kane leaves. But personally I still think they'll give Kane a decision to make if they get the right manager because unless we pipe up for Kane I don't see an abundance of candidates for Harry. I could be wrong. I think there's a very real chance he could sign a contract that ends his career there for huge money. If he leaves they have an additional transfer budget to reinvest, they've been playing Richarlison out of position as well - he scores plenty for Brazil.
I don't see them being too far off what we were in terms of talent until we bought well. Ultimately they're 4th. We were a total shambles last year. We had a pensioner up front that's no longer here. We couldn't defend, couldn't pass, couldn't fight. We had no redeemable qualities, really. Spurs can at least grind out results. I don't think the platform is that bad.
Frankly, he'd be a fool to risk PSG or Real at his current age. Plus waiting around for Chelsea isn't a guarantee. Since Potter could yet still come good. Not forgetting Zidane is still jobless... Plus his very young for a manager and can't afford to sit around just waiting on jobs. Frankly for the jobs just below the truly elite ones. Spurs is one of the best possible destinations he could get.
Not chance. No chance in hell
Alright Vince
I do agree it is better for him to wait for either the Chelsea, Liverpool or Newcastle job. Spurs head coach/manager is a very difficult job.
Why? They surely have enough young talent, and will be looking to spend big again since they have aging stars
He's being smart: just needs to wait for the summer, better offers will come.
Some fair points here, but:
Who exactly?
The two I can think of in recent times are:
- AvB, who started off well in the face of a huge amount of press derision but was then allowed by Daniel Levy to be completely undermined by Tim Sherwood.
- Poch, who again started really well but was hung out to dry when it was obvious that the midfield needed replenishment.
Maybe, but at Hoffenheim and Leipzig he had backroom operations that were focused on helping him to succeed. Will that really be the case at Spurs with the Pound Shop Ed Woodward as de-facto DoF?
I totally agree about AVB. However, for the second above.
This is a bit disingenuous for a Pochetino defence. Pochetino failed all on his own not because of lack of support. By the time he some how manager to get them to a UCL final his own general lack of ambition and ability to actually win had started to severely undermine the mentality of his squad and performances were starting to sharply decline. That is what also undermined him getting support from Levy.
I believe so. Firstly Levy's recruitment is no where near as bad nor as direction less as Woodward. Secondly, Naglesmann can re establishe exactly what Pochectino was doing but unlike him won't let chances to win cups to start a winning culture (like ETH has done with us) slip in favour of resting players for unrealistic titles like UCLs and EPL titles.
I’m talking about ages before the UCL final which was in 2019.
Poch started in 2014. Spurs brought in some decent players in his first couple of summers but the 2017 and 18 windows were very slender pickings. By the time of the UCL final the project was dead and buried and he was just relying on magic from Kane and Son.
Only because he’s a bit more careful with his money. They are still lumbered with Davinson Sanchez who cost €42m six years ago.
If the disdain for the domestic cups came from Poch, then I completely agree. Are you sure it did though, or was it an edict from Levy? This year’s appalling cup exits suggests that it might be “club policy”.
Especially if Potter gets off to a bad start.
A mistake imo but then Bayern are making the correct decisions more often then not so it's most likely the right move.
He turned them down once but I doubt he would again.
The decline wasn't down to expenditure. It was down to the club treading water due to his lack of ambition. That is why the likes of Ericksen started to want out. Up until the time he was sacked poch had a better balanced side than even Manchester who tended to finish above him. Even win a cup or two.
A player who has under performed due to the coaching. Like many others.
I'm certain it did. Poch repeatedly used to say he was prioritising the EPL and ucl. Especially at times he rested key players in crucial later stage cup games. He is the one who instilled the culture of not taking cups seriously. Why do you think Conte literally had a go at the players? Its laughable to claim it was a Levy edict. These are largely the self same players who literally mutinied Mourinho out of a job when they were a final away from a possible trophy.
He is free play career Russian roulette. It is his life.
Where else does he realistically go from here though? His stock is still high, he had a good record but it seems he was sacked because he doesn’t really take his responsibilities as a top level coach seriously or in a manner thats expected of a top level coach.
If he takes a job at a smaller club than one of the big ones he’ll struggle to break back into that circle.
So are you certain that Poch told Levy he didn’t want any players brought in for two consecutive summers? And if Levy was unhappy with that, why didn’t he sack him there and then?
He was certainly highly rated prior to signing for Spurs. Do you think United should sign him when Maguire and/or Lindelöf leave this summer?
Because those players work for Levy, not Poch or Jose or Conte.
I’m not convinced that Poch is particularly a “winner”, based on the fact that he’s, er, hardly won anything. But blaming him for the poor culture at Spurs seems ridiculous, especially given that the culture was rotten before he went there.
He didn't create this culture, but he also did nothing to get rid of it.
I don’t think any manager can do that on his own. The culture changes that SAF and now ETH have brought about at United have only happened with a sympathetic top level management in place.
I'm not aware of Poch's every statement, so I can't say what did or didn't do to turn Spurs around, but since this is the Nagelsmann thread I think it's worth pointing out that he was talking about playing for the (league) title, even when he was coaching Hoffenheim - in a "we're going to try" rather than "we will win it", but still, it would have been easy to hide behind the lesser status of the respective clubs.
Which is of course bordering on delusional, but I think if you want to win big, setting ambitious goals and standards for yourself and your team is the first step - as long as you can sell it to your team and moderate it with the public.
Oh absolutely!
Those ambitious goals have to be at least tolerated by the higher-ups though. You can probably get away with it at Hoffenheim, but at a club with entitled supporters (yes even Spurs
) it might produce pressure to “back the manager” that the owners would rather be without.A club without ambition to win is just a business and not worthy of having fans at all.Oh absolutely!
Those ambitious goals have to be at least tolerated by the higher-ups though. You can probably get away with it at Hoffenheim, but at a club with entitled supporters (yes even Spurs
That little dig at Spurs aside I think you are right that this risk exists, bit I don't think that it should have a big effect.
Poch didn't value the smaller cups, as his team selection proved and that's a pretty simple decision to go full strength to win something. Instead he tried to win the CL and failed. So I'm not sure that lack of ambition was the problem, more a lack of focus on winning something at all instead of focus on just the big things.
However I don't see Nagelsmann being mich better in that regard. He also just has one league title with Bayern and that's it.