Julian Draxler

This is the guy we should be after. Not Kroos. Draxler, for his age, is astoundingly good.

The 20 years old Toni Kroos, who played for Leverkusen had overall better performances and way more influence on the game than Draxler ever did for Schalke.

The current Kroos and Draxler are seperated by at least one level. Kroos was underrated for a very long time, because he struggled for a while to really find a place in the highly competive Bayern squad (Draxler never faced an even remotely similar situation so far) and probably even more importantly because he is not much of a flair player aside of his long range shoots. Does not change that Kroos would be way more efficient, versatile and helpful for United right now. And that is not only because of your midfield situation. Kroos is a way more complete player.
 
The 20 years old Toni Kroos, who played for Leverkusen had overall better performances and way more influence on the game than Draxler ever did for Schalke.

The current Kroos and Draxler are seperated by at least one level. Kroos was underrated for a very long time, because he struggled for a while to really find a place in the highly competive Bayern squad (Draxler never faced an even remotely similar situation so far) and probably even more importantly because he is not much of a flair player aside of his long range shoots. Does not change that Kroos would be way more efficient, versatile and helpful for United right now. And that is not only because of your midfield situation. Kroos is a way more complete player.

Perhaps, but Kroos doesn't influence the game today like he did when he played at Leverkusen, who are frankly, a small club.
 
Perhaps, but Kroos doesn't influence the game today like he did when he played at Leverkusen, who are frankly, a small club.

Not gonna argue that his influence has lessened at Bayern, which has more to do with the general level of play and his teammates there. However, if Leverkusen is a small club, then what does this make Draxler´s club Schalke? Over the last half decade Leverkusen overall performed better than Schalke.
 
Not gonna argue that his influence has lessened at Bayern, which has more to do with the general level of play and his teammates there. However, if Leverkusen is a small club, then what does this make Draxler´s club Schalke? Over the last half decade Leverkusen overall performed better than Schalke.

I am not comparing the two players based on their abilities to run the game. I think Draxler is one of those unique players who, like Januzaj, has an amazing footballing brain. They both make it look so easy. I would always find room in my team for those types of players. I am not sure Kroos is close to either in that respect. And if he can't influence a game like he could at Leverkusen, then I don't imagine he'll be able to do so at United either.
 
I am not comparing the two players based on their abilities to run the game. I think Draxler is one of those unique players who, like Januzaj, has an amazing footballing brain. They both make it look so easy. I would always find room in my team for those types of players. I am not sure Kroos is close to either in that respect. And if he can't influence a game like he could at Leverkusen, then I don't imagine he'll be able to do so at United either.

Funny, because I think that his decision making is the one thing you can really criticise about Draxler. He is not utlilzing his amazing talents well enough to really perform consistently at top level.

And you can´t compare the Bayern squad, where Kroos struggled for a time, to the current United. Kroos´ biggest problem IMO was that he stood in the shadow of the true showrunner of Munich: Bastian Schweinsteiger. It led to a pretty big dependency on the latter.

United currently has no one who is remotely close to a top form Schweinsteiger so the improved Kroos would be instantly the number one midfielder and given the freedom to run the game, just like he did at Leverkusen.
 
Funny, because I think that his decision making is the one thing you can really criticise about Draxler. He is not utlilzing his amazing talents well enough to really perform consistently at top level.
This x 1,000,000. Draxler just looks like raw talent to me, plays like a kid. Janu plays like a 27 year old
 
Not gonna argue that his influence has lessened at Bayern, which has more to do with the general level of play and his teammates there. However, if Leverkusen is a small club, then what does this make Draxler´s club Schalke? Over the last half decade Leverkusen overall performed better than Schalke.
Leverkusen have performed better than Schalke in the last 5 years? You sure about that? 3 out of last 5 seasons Schalke have finished higher, including a 2nd place finish. Done excellently in the CL and have a cup win. How have Leverkusen performed better overall over that period?
 
This x 1,000,000. Draxler just looks like raw talent to me, plays like a kid. Janu plays like a 27 year old

Hard to criticise talented kids though - if you're young you make mistakes.

Against Sunderland in the league cup 2nd leg Januzaj was our most threatening player - but he was also far too greedy.

Decision making comes with experience.
 
Leverkusen have performed better than Schalke in the last 5 years? You sure about that? 3 out of last 5 seasons Schalke have finished higher, including a 2nd place finish. Done excellently in the CL and have a cup win. How have Leverkusen performed better overall over that period?

I was actually taking the current and the last four seasons into account, so the term half a decade was probably too vague.

Leverkusen is currently 2nd in the league while Schalke is 5th. The former have never finished outside the top 4 in the above mentioned time frame. Schalke in the same time finished 2nd, 14th, 3rd and 4th.

The one year sticking out for the Blues is of course 2010/2011. In that year they had their amazing CL run (ultimately falling to United in the Semis) and their cup win. One big reason for their success was that they concentrated basically everything they had into the cup campaigns resulting to them finishing barely above the relegation zone that season in the league.

The German cup win was of course a success, but a closer look at that campaign actually does not make it look that impressive. They won every game except the final vs. surprise team MSV Duisburg (2nd league team at that time) only with one goal difference. Even the earlier fixtures vs. the lower class teams FSV Frankfurt and Aalen were fairly close affairs. The three games leading to the final were all nail biters. Augsburg and Nürnberg were defeated with very late goals and while they scored early vs. Bayern Munich (their only really serious competition), that game turned into a game towards one goal really quick. In none of the three games they were really the better team, but they fielded the best man in every game: Manuel Neuer. I sometimes lost count how many times he saved his team with world class saves there. In hindsight not many cared how they won that silverware, but I was not only talking about results and trophies in my earlier comparision. I was talking about performances.

Personally, I think that Leverkusen overall played the better football over most of that period. Their tactics were cleaner, their play style better organized. There is also of course the point that a lot of Schalke´s success was built on sand, especially in the Magath era, which drove them into red figures and resulted into a considerable amount of debt, whom a lot is still burderning them at the present.

They do have one thing going for them, though. They have perhaps the best academy in Germany, bringing up players like Manuel Neuer, Max Meyer or Julian Draxler. This helped them financially in the past (the Neuer deal was extremely needed at that time) and could do so in the future.
 
I was actually taking the current and the last four seasons into account, so the term half a decade was probably too vague.

Leverkusen is currently 2nd in the league while Schalke is 5th. The former have never finished outside the top 4 in the above mentioned time frame. Schalke in the same time finished 2nd, 14th, 3rd and 4th.

The one year sticking out for the Blues is of course 2010/2011. In that year they had their amazing CL run (ultimately falling to United in the Semis) and their cup win. One big reason for their success was that they concentrated basically everything they had into the cup campaigns resulting to them finishing barely above the relegation zone that season in the league.

The German cup win was of course a success, but a closer look at that campaign actually does not make it look that impressive. They won every game except the final vs. surprise team MSV Duisburg (2nd league team at that time) only with one goal difference. Even the earlier fixtures vs. the lower class teams FSV Frankfurt and Aalen were fairly close affairs. The three games leading to the final were all nail biters. Augsburg and Nürnberg were defeated with very late goals and while they scored early vs. Bayern Munich (their only really serious competition), that game turned into a game towards one goal really quick. In none of the three games they were really the better team, but they fielded the best man in every game: Manuel Neuer. I sometimes lost count how many times he saved his team with world class saves there. In hindsight not many cared how they won that silverware, but I was not only talking about results and trophies in my earlier comparision. I was talking about performances.

Personally, I think that Leverkusen overall played the better football over most of that period. Their tactics were cleaner, their play style better organized. There is also of course the point that a lot of Schalke´s success was built on sand, especially in the Magath era, which drove them into red figures and resulted into a considerable amount of debt, whom a lot is still burderning them at the present.

They do have one thing going for them, though. They have perhaps the best academy in Germany, bringing up players like Manuel Neuer, Max Meyer or Julian Draxler. This helped them financially in the past (the Neuer deal was extremely needed at that time) and could do so in the future.
That's not true. They finished 5th in 11/12.

You mention that Schalke's success was build on sand. That should count towards them, not against them. I've enjoyed them in the CL. Started following them a bit whilst Raúl was there and have seen most CL games since as well as the odd Bundesliga team. They're a team with potential now but are lacking mental strength. Draxler isn't exactly pulling the carriage in that department. He is inconsistent. That's their team basically. I know nothing of their manager. Seems to be doing alright. But how much can you really do when most of your squad is that young and you've got Bayern to take away your top players when they're grown up. As a team they've couldn't have done much better in the last half-decade.
 
I am not sure Kroos is close to either in that respect.

Really?

No idea how you rate players but Pep rates him. Only Neuer, Mueller, and Kroos have played all 18 games for Bayern in the League (Neuer started all, Kroos and Mueller started 15). But clearly with all the talent at his disposal Pep, and most people, clearly understand Kroos is an amazing player with a great footballing brain who can play across a variety of positions and someone you can depend to help carry your team. You like draxler no issue to me, but if you can not appreciate all Kroos brings to the *best* team in the world and thus earning so many starts...
 
That's not true. They finished 5th in 11/12.

You mention that Schalke's success was build on sand. That should count towards them, not against them. I've enjoyed them in the CL. Started following them a bit whilst Raúl was there and have seen most CL games since as well as the odd Bundesliga team. They're a team with potential now but are lacking mental strength. Draxler isn't exactly pulling the carriage in that department. He is inconsistent. That's their team basically. I know nothing of their manager. Seems to be doing alright. But how much can you really do when most of your squad is that young and you've got Bayern to take away your top players when they're grown up. As a team they've couldn't have done much better in the last half-decade.

What have we done to Schalke now :lol: ? We paid a huge amount of money for a goalkeeper with one year left on his contract, signed Altintop 6 or 7 years ago, who was hardly special and then you probably have to go back to the 80's when we signed Thon to find another player who moved to us.

We didn't sign anyone from their UEFA cup winning team in the 90's or from the team that pushed us to the last second of the last game for the title in 2001. Most of their young talents left for other teams, like Rakitic to Sevilla, Holtby to Tottenham, Özil to Bremen in recent years and most likely soon Draxler to Arsenal.
 
As expected, AW's come out and officially put an end to the speculation.

I expect we'll sign Ntep with Berbatov as the wildcard.
 
Tbh a winter transfer was probably never a possibility to begin with.
 
What have we done to Schalke now :lol: ? We paid a huge amount of money for a goalkeeper with one year left on his contract, signed Altintop 6 or 7 years ago, who was hardly special and then you probably have to go back to the 80's when we signed Thon to find another player who moved to us.

We didn't sign anyone from their UEFA cup winning team in the 90's or from the team that pushed us to the last second of the last game for the title in 2001. Most of their young talents left for other teams, like Rakitic to Sevilla, Holtby to Tottenham, Özil to Bremen in recent years and most likely soon Draxler to Arsenal.
Just the general Bayern signing the best Germans thing. You will sign more. They do have to fit your style. I'll give Bayern that. They don't just buy them for the hell of it. There have been a lot of free players over the years though. Lewandowski being only the latest.

Holtby sucks. One of the worst players I've seen in a Tottenham shirt in recent years.
 
Really?

No idea how you rate players but Pep rates him. Only Neuer, Mueller, and Kroos have played all 18 games for Bayern in the League (Neuer started all, Kroos and Mueller started 15). But clearly with all the talent at his disposal Pep, and most people, clearly understand Kroos is an amazing player with a great footballing brain who can play across a variety of positions and someone you can depend to help carry your team. You like draxler no issue to me, but if you can not appreciate all Kroos brings to the *best* team in the world and thus earning so many starts...

People forget that Schweinsteiger has been injured for a large part of the season so far. I doubt Kroos would have played anywhere near the number of games he has had Schweini been fit.
 
People forget that Schweinsteiger has been injured for a large part of the season so far. I doubt Kroos would have played anywhere near the number of games he has had Schweini been fit.

Bayern has had lots of injuries... but still you have loads of great players there too in the Mid/ACM... Mueller, Ribery, Robben, Martinez, Goetze, Schweiny, Lahm, Thiago, and some up and coming youth... So even just considering the games the players are healthy and Pep has choices... Kroos has played a part in EVERY league game.

That is *NOT* an accident mate :).
 
Bayern has had lots of injuries... but still you have loads of great players there too in the Mid/ACM... Mueller, Ribery, Robben, Martinez, Goetze, Schweiny, Lahm, Thiago, and some up and coming youth... So even just considering the games the players are healthy and Pep has choices... Kroos has played a part in EVERY league game.

That is *NOT* an accident mate :).
Tbf, it is. Dans of course talking nonsense denying Kroos is quality, but the injury crisis in CM is the main reason, why Kroos played every single game. Let's not forget that Lahm is still playing in CM as well, because we don't have more than 2 central midfielders available for months now and we need 3. If everyone is fit and we continue to play the 4141, I expect Martinez, Schweinsteiger, Thiago and Kroos all get a similar number of games in those 3 positions with Martinez maybe playing centerback a few times as well (we only have 3 centerbacks in the team and the only back-up for Dante/Boateng is van Buyten .. Contento, our leftback backup played a few times there as well, but I don't know if anyone believes this could be a longterm solution).
 
Lahms clearly who he genuinely wants at CDM. Kroos key man. Rest rotate around them. All contract poker game innit.
 
Lahms clearly who he genuinely wants at CDM. Kroos key man. Rest rotate around them. All contract poker game innit.
Maybe, but then we should have bought a rightback. I still believe we'll switch to a 3-4-3 soon enough, which allows Lahm and Alaba to play as midfielders without opening up a fullback problem, because quality fullbacks really are rare at the moment and we won't continue to play with a back 4 and hurt the team overall by forcing Rafinha into the team (though he played surprisingly well for the most part of the season so far).
 
Jan has been very unreliable on Draxler this window. He was saying a few days ago we had a fee agreed and now saying this. In the past have found him quite reliable though so either he is just stirring the pot or his source is feeding him bad info.
 
Tbf, it is. Dans of course talking nonsense denying Kroos is quality, but the injury crisis in CM is the main reason, why Kroos played every single game. Let's not forget that Lahm is still playing in CM as well, because we don't have more than 2 central midfielders available for months now and we need 3. If everyone is fit and we continue to play the 4141, I expect Martinez, Schweinsteiger, Thiago and Kroos all get a similar number of games in those 3 positions with Martinez maybe playing centerback a few times as well (we only have 3 centerbacks in the team and the only back-up for Dante/Boateng is van Buyten .. Contento, our leftback backup played a few times there as well, but I don't know if anyone believes this could be a longterm solution).


Okay, sorry... let me try and be a little clearer about what I am trying to highlight here.

So when there are injuries, Pep counts on Kroos to adjust his game and plays him somewhere.

When all are healthy, Pep still plays Kroos.

Again I am not trying to hammer the details, just my point... Kroos is quality and earns starts on the best team in football.

I think we are both very clear about that :).
 
Jan has been very unreliable on Draxler this window. He was saying a few days ago we had a fee agreed and now saying this. In the past have found him quite reliable though so either he is just stirring the pot or his source is feeding him bad info.
He was once lucky with Özil........he's just a transfer muppet like all of us
 
Kicker: Draxlers move to Arsenal was almost finalized - However a last minute call from Bayern president blocked the transfer

Wonder if any of the German fans want to comment on this? Jan said the same a few days ago but not sure if he was trying to save face after earlier saying we had agreed a fee.
 
Selling to Bayern is retarded if they can get him out of Germany.

I can only imagine Bayern said they'd fork up a few extra millions if this is true.
 
Draxler gave an interview on Saturday and said that the club informed him that there were offers on the table but they declined all of them without much thought. Horst Heldt, Schalkes director of football, said the same. No idea what's true. Maybe we really want to sell Kroos in the summer and Pep has ideas how to play Draxler instead, I can't see it at the moment though.
 
Why would they sell him to Bayern if they can sell him to Arsenal?
I assume Bayern will pay more, possibly Draxler prefers to stay in Germany. Wenger wasn't going to pay £37M for a 20-year old.
 
Draxler gave an interview on Saturday and said that the club informed him that there were offers on the table but they declined all of them without much thought. Horst Heldt, Schalkes director of football, said the same. No idea what's true. Maybe we really want to sell Kroos in the summer and Pep has ideas how to play Draxler instead, I can't see it at the moment though.

Talking about other clubs again.. I dont get it, why can't he just shut up and let his actions on the pitch speak for him.
The whole thing would make sense if Pep/Sammer see him as a long term replacement for Ribery/Robben. Maybe they planned to let him mature at Schalke for another season or two and then activate his clause, but Draxler insists on leaving now so they have to act now before he signs for some other club without a release clause.
Or they don't trust Shaqiri to become good enough to truly challenge for regular starts, so they gonna replace him with Draxler.
Or Mandzukic is leaving this summer and Pep wants Draxler as a striker (like Wenger supposedly does?!).

Given Bayern perfomances this season it seems unlikely but if they see him as an improvement I'm sure Sammer will make a move, especially because he's still so young and German too.
 
Bayern has had lots of injuries... but still you have loads of great players there too in the Mid/ACM... Mueller, Ribery, Robben, Martinez, Goetze, Schweiny, Lahm, Thiago, and some up and coming youth... So even just considering the games the players are healthy and Pep has choices... Kroos has played a part in EVERY league game.

That is *NOT* an accident mate :).

Sorry, but that's ridiculous. Kroos is in direct competition with 3 of those you listed and 1 was out injured half the season and another a young new signing finding his feet. Kroos is good, granted, but I am not convinced he is as good as people are making him out to be, rather he has an amazingly good team around him which make him look better than he is. Playing at United next season would seriously challenge him and I don't think he'd be looking quite so amazing.
 
Good shout do.ob about Bayern wanting him to stay at Schalke longer before making a move for him.