Julian Alvarez | 75m + 20m add-ons (Euros) fee agreed with Atletico

[Hammondo]

I'm curious if you even watch football. The only players on that list I'd say are clearly better than Alvarez are Haaland, Nunez, Isak and Watkins. Edit: I forgot Son.

Foden too slow to play as a 10 at City and not able to carry the ball despite being 4th fastest at the club and known for his dribbling.
Rashford the Mbappe of United.
Alvarez worse than Hojlund, Ferguson, Havertz, Jesus, Toney and Solanke... he's awfully lucky to have landed at City and won a world cup I guess.

But in the interests of discussion what makes World Cup, Copa America, Champions League, Premier League, Libertadores and Argentine League winning player at 24 not worth £75m, and why is a kid who had 10 goals in a top 5 European league in his entire career worth £64m before addons and more importantly a better player?

No way Nunez is better.

 

[Rojofiam]

I'm curious if you even watch football. The only players on that list I'd say are clearly better than Alvarez are Haaland, Nunez, Isak and Watkins. Edit: I forgot Son.

Foden too slow to play as a 10 at City and not able to carry the ball despite being 4th fastest at the club and known for his dribbling.
Rashford the Mbappe of United.
Alvarez worse than Hojlund, Ferguson, Havertz, Jesus, Toney and Solanke... he's awfully lucky to have landed at City and won a world cup I guess.

But in the interests of discussion what makes World Cup, Copa America, Champions League, Premier League, Libertadores and Argentine League winning player at 24 not worth £75m, and why is a kid who had 10 goals in a top 5 European league in his entire career worth £64m before addons and more importantly a better player?

Either your bias is clouding your judgment or you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

You biased and mistaken.

I've already given my reasoning in this thread several times, feel free to read all my previous posts. It's very telling that most of the counter-arguments I've received from several posters are only about who Álvarez plays for, and what has he won with his teams, how he is still young, and how many goals he's scored. Nothing about his skillset and attributes. You cannot look past team achievements and analyze the player himself in isolation from the system and environment he plays in. He doesn't bring anything to the table that's worth 80 million. Good ball striking, good high presser, hard worker, good discipline and mentality, decent finishing, but how rare are these traits for footballers who play, or have the potential to play for a good team from one of the top 5 European leagues? Pretty common I'd say.

 

[Kwabs]

I've already given my reasoning in this thread several times, feel free to read all my previous posts. It's very telling that most of the counter-arguments I've received from several posters are only about who Álvarez plays for, and what has he won with his teams, how he is still young, and how many goals he's scored. Nothing about his skillset and attributes. You cannot look past team achievements and analyze the player himself in isolation from the system and environment he plays in. He doesn't bring anything to the table that's worth 80 million. Good ball striking, good high presser, hard worker, good discipline and mentality, decent finishing, but how rare are these traits for footballers who play, or have the potential to play for a good team from one of the top 5 European leagues? Pretty common I'd say.

Clueless post. He's quite clearly a top player and he will prove it by scoring a bucket load of goals for A. Madrid.

 

[dinostar77]

BBC football said, Guardiola didnt want Alvarez to leave.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Clueless post. He's quite clearly a top player and he will prove it by scoring a bucket load of goals for A. Madrid.

He was literally in a City side where you get chance after chance after chance put on a plate for you and he still only managed 11 goals in 36 games which is far from what you would expect from a top player.

 

[Rojofiam]

Clueless post. He's quite clearly a top player and he will prove it by scoring a bucket load of goals for A. Madrid.

That's alright if you think that. If he transforms his game and outgrows his profile, I'll have no issue admitting I was wrong. Players don't outgrow their profiles, though, like ever.

Many players that play in great teams tend to get overestimated to the point where clearly better players that play in lesser teams get dismissed when making a comparison between them. You shouldn't ever underestimate how important the system and environment is to any player. It's by far the most influential thing when it comes to a player being able to perform to their best levels.

I don't see him scoring bucket loads of goals in a team that doesn't dominate every game like City. Their forwards generally get many scoring opportunities every game by just running into big, empty spaces and receive said scoring opportunities with more time on the ball than you would expect. Sure, his hard working mentality, good high pressing, and good ball striking will net him goals and Simeone loves someone who gives his all, even if they're not top drawer, just good...which is what I've been arguing about in this thread.

 

[golden_blunder]

BBC football said, Guardiola didnt want Alvarez to leave.

Off course, he brought them lots of points when city needed them. Haaland goes off the boil now and again so he was like the equivalent of Solksjaer coming off the bench.
Would I pay 80m for him? No, but he scores goals and is a good age so probably 60m

 

[bosnian_red]

He was literally in a City side where you get chance after chance after chance put on a plate for you and he still only managed 11 goals in 36 games which is far from what you would expect from a top player.

He scored 17 goals and 19 goals in all competitions being a squad player and being moved around across the pitch in his 2 seasons. That's really good.

 

[Galactic]

BBC football said, Guardiola didnt want Alvarez to leave.

Doubt he would have said otherwise.

 

[Kwabs]

He was literally in a City side where you get chance after chance after chance put on a plate for you and he still only managed 11 goals in 36 games which is far from what you would expect from a top player.

He's been City's third top scorer over the past 2 seasons despite not being a regular starter. Please don't try and mislead with stats devoid of context

 

[Kwabs]

That's alright if you think that. If he transforms his game and outgrows his profile, I'll have no issue admitting I was wrong. Players don't outgrow their profiles, though, like ever.

Many players that play in great teams tend to get overestimated to the point where clearly better players that play in lesser teams get dismissed when making a comparison between them. You shouldn't ever underestimate how important the system and environment is to any player. It's by far the most influential thing when it comes to a player being able to perform to their best levels.

I don't see him scoring bucket loads of goals in a team that doesn't dominate every game like City. Their forwards generally get many scoring opportunities every game by just running into big, empty spaces and receive said scoring opportunities with more time on the ball than you would expect. Sure, his hard working mentality, good high pressing, and good ball striking will net him goals and Simeone loves someone who gives his all, even if they're not top drawer, just good...which is what I've been arguing about in this thread.

Looking forward to you eating humble pie.....

 

[Denis79]

I've already given my reasoning in this thread several times, feel free to read all my previous posts. It's very telling that most of the counter-arguments I've received from several posters are only about who Álvarez plays for, and what has he won with his teams, how he is still young, and how many goals he's scored. Nothing about his skillset and attributes. You cannot look past team achievements and analyze the player himself in isolation from the system and environment he plays in. He doesn't bring anything to the table that's worth 80 million. Good ball striking, good high presser, hard worker, good discipline and mentality, decent finishing, but how rare are these traits for footballers who play, or have the potential to play for a good team from one of the top 5 European leagues? Pretty common I'd say.

Well I am in no way a professional in my opinion but just watching the two play (Hojlund and Alvarez), my take is that Alvarez is the better player technically in pretty much every department, hold up, ball control, first touch, striking. I will give Hojlund the advantage in work-rate and maybe speed but that is pretty much it. Not saying Hojlund won't get there but right now I have seen nothing from him to indicate he is a better striker than Alvarez, not from all his performances in the EPL nor the Euros.

 

[TheGame]

BBC football said, Guardiola didnt want Alvarez to leave.

He didn’t because he had a great option from the bench and for rotation but Alvarez wanted more game time.

 

[Fobal]

That's alright if you think that. If he transforms his game and outgrows his profile, I'll have no issue admitting I was wrong. Players don't outgrow their profiles, though, like ever.

Many players that play in great teams tend to get overestimated to the point where clearly better players that play in lesser teams get dismissed when making a comparison between them. You shouldn't ever underestimate how important the system and environment is to any player. It's by far the most influential thing when it comes to a player being able to perform to their best levels.

I don't see him scoring bucket loads of goals in a team that doesn't dominate every game like City. Their forwards generally get many scoring opportunities every game by just running into big, empty spaces and receive said scoring opportunities with more time on the ball than you would expect. Sure, his hard working mentality, good high pressing, and good ball striking will net him goals and Simeone loves someone who gives his all, even if they're not top drawer, just good...which is what I've been arguing about in this thread.

We talked before about this before...(BOLD PART)

and in general I still think that the jury it's out there of how Julian is going to:

1. Deal with the Aleti style and his current not best level (plus not being a player of the calibre of an Aguero or Tevez as an example).
And I'm not talking here about Aleti in bad form not providing, on contrair even if the team provides him in the best possible way for his style: when he makes his runs in a vertical way into space, this version of Julian might find himself in trouble. Currently he is missing relativily easy chances (specially in the NT).
It's not that he receives the ball many times in such situations (that's also a problem because nowadays I don't think he even knows what role he is playing in the NT and in City), but the ones he has received, he doesn't look as sahrp as he was in his best periods.

2. Deal with the Price tag, for me is perfectly adequate to his talent, CV, current market and the Club is selling. Yet still is a number that the Press will remind him time and again if goals doesn't come and might look awful if he doesn't deliver.

Yet I dunno why on hell man you continue to picture an scenario that wasn't even NEAR as the one Julian had in City, Julian had to scrap the bottom of the barrell time and again in City to receive proper balls and score, to the point that in his last months in there he even looked tired and without confidence when those arrived.

He almost never was the main receiver, when he was alone he mostly also played a role in the middle or the flanks and even when City had him with the main squad, the ammount of times him (and even Erling) ran into space expecting to receive a fast ball where waaaayyyy more than the ones they actually received those.

I trully don't get why you think that City it's a team that constantly had put Julian in scoring postions, it's not. In fact it can be made a 4 hours vid of Walker, Doku, Mahrez, Grealish, Bernardo, sobbing the ball, trying themselves or passing it to Erling (or not even that) than Julian receiving the ball in proper time.
Only Foden in ocassions, Erling a lot and Kevin (in few ocassions that he didn't choose Erling), the ones risking it providing the type of plays you think he was receiving constantly in his time in City. Plus he needs to receive those balls in his rans to space constatly, becasue that it's his best asset, if not he'll ends like Erling surrounded by his rivals and his own team in a tiny area and he is not Foden, no Kun.

So mostly Julian's scenario was playing second fiddle, playing the pressing game, going to the flanks to provide more space for Erling, adding a another body in the middle and offering himself time and agin with runs, but mostly used as decoy. Indeed he isn't a player that can solve by himself in a manner a Kun or Tevez did for City time and again, neither the character to ask for the ball even in a bad manner if they ignore him constantly (that happened a lot), but he also deserved way more balls than the ones he received in his time there.

So finally, there are other reasons why Julian might fail in Aleti, that you've mentioned, that I've mentioned, there are atributes that Julian never had nor will have, but being in the receiving end of easy chances to score constantly wasn't AT ALL his case in City and teh reason behind his numbers or that he played mostly good to very good for them, trust me.

 

[Rojofiam]

We talked before about this before...(BOLD PART)

and in general I still think that the jury it's out there of how Julian is going to:

1. Deal with the Aleti style and his current not best level (plus not being a player of the calibre of an Aguero or Tevez as an example).
And I'm not talking here about Aleti in bad form not providing, on contrair even if the team provides him in the best possible way for his style: when he makes his runs in a vertical way into space, this version of Julian might find himself in trouble. Currently he is missing relativily easy chances (specially in the NT).
It's not that he receives the ball many times in such situations (that's also a problem because nowadays I don't think he even knows what role he is playing in the NT and in City), but the ones he has received, he doesn't look as sahrp as he was in his best periods.

2. Deal with the Price tag, for me is perfectly adequate to his talent, CV, current market and the Club is selling. Yet still is a number that the Press will remind him time and again if goals doesn't come and might look awful if he doesn't deliver.

Yet I dunno why on hell man you continue to picture an scenario that wasn't even NEAR as the one Julian had in City, Julian had to scrap the bottom of the barrell time and again in City to receive proper balls and score, to the point that in his last months in there he even looked tired and without confidence when those arrived.

He almost never was the main receiver, when he was alone he mostly also played a role in the middle or the flanks and even when City had him with the main squad, the ammount of times him (and even Erling) ran into space expecting to receive a fast ball where waaaayyyy more than the ones they actually received those.

I trully don't get why you think that City it's a team that constantly had put Julian in scoring postions, it's not. In fact it can be made a 4 hours vid of Walker, Doku, Mahrez, Grealish, Bernardo, sobbing the ball, trying themselves or passing it to Erling (or not even that) than Julian receiving the ball in proper time.
Only Foden in ocassions, Erling a lot and Kevin (in few ocassions that he didn't choose Erling), the ones risking it providing the type of plays you think he was receiving constantly in his time in City. Plus he needs to receive those balls in his rans to space constatly, becasue that it's his best asset, if not he'll ends like Erling surrounded by his rivals and his own team in a tiny area and he is not Foden, no Kun.

So mostly Julian's scenario was playing second fiddle, playing the pressing game, going to the flanks to provide more space for Erling, adding a another body in the middle and offering himself time and agin with runs, but mostly used as decoy. Indeed he isn't a player that can solve by himself in a manner a Kun or Tevez did for City time and again, neither the character to ask for the ball even in a bad manner if they ignore him constantly (that happened a lot), but he also deserved way more balls than the ones he received in his time there.

So finally, there are other reasons why Julian might fail in Aleti, that you've mentioned, that I've mentioned, there are atributes that Julian never had nor will have, but being in the receiving end of easy chances to score constantly wasn't AT ALL his case in City and teh reason behind his numbers or that he played mostly good to very good for them, trust me.

Sorry, just one thing I want to add because we've discussed Álvarez thoroughly already.

Like I said before, the City system isn't set up to solely provide Álvarez and Haaland with goal-scoring chances, but they still provide them with more than enough for them to accumulate a good tally of goal contributions. Álvarez has actually underperformed his xG by 2 goals overall in his 2 PL seasons, and couldn't overperform his expected assists either.

20 goals from 22.13 xG and 8 assists from 7.87 xA in two seasons.

 

[Fobal]

Sorry, just one thing I want to add because we've discussed Álvarez thoroughly already.

Like I said before, the City system isn't set up to solely provide Álvarez and Haaland with goal-scoring chances, but they still provide them with more than enough for them to accumulate a good tally of goal contributions. Álvarez has actually underperformed his xG by 2 goals overall in his 2 PL seasons, and couldn't overperform his expected assists either.

20 goals from 22.13 xG and 8 assists from 7.87 xA in two seasons.

Yet if you actually watched Alvarez in City, the one thing that was missing tons of times it's precisly that, providing him in a way River did in the past, providing him enough in those suppose silver plate ocassions, City it's a very annoying team regarding risking the ball too many times for players of the profile of Alvarez or even using Erling on the break and such. Even the Argie NT does not do that in the way we deploy him and used him.
Of course there is fault in Alvarez too in the way he is playing since some time (mainly the last half of his last season in City), so from his form to his attitude and from where he positions himself or the coaches task him to do, he ain't looking sharp at all.
This is the real issue and the main reason why he might fail at Aleti, not because City provided enough or a lot of silver plate ocassions (when he was in better form or nowadays that looks rusty and tired), nothing further from the truth.

 

[Redstain]

BBC football said, Guardiola didnt want Alvarez to leave.

Not sure why this isn't common knowledge as to why they got so much out of the deal.

In a market when Hojlund cost north 70 million, Alvarez who's more proven to some degree does represent decent value for Athletico.

In many regards he's also more dynamic than Halland. He's a top player, no different to if a ridiculous offer came in for Bruno, it's not an outrageous fee.

Now if City sold Nunes for a inflated fee I would understand the bemusement.

 

[Rojofiam]

Yet if you actually watched Alvarez in City, the one thing that was missing tons of times it's precisly that, providing him in a way River did in the past, providing him enough in those suppose silver plate ocassions, City it's a very annoying team regarding risking teh ball too many times for players of the profile of Alvarez or even using Erling on the break and such. Even the Argie NT does not do that in the way we deploy him and use him.
Of course there is fault in Alvarez too in the way he is playing since some time (last half of this last season mostly), from his form to his attitude and from where he positions himself or the coaches task him to do.
This is the real issue and the main reason why he might fail at Aleti, not because City provided enough or a lot of silver plate ocassions (when he was in better form or nowadays that looks rusty and tired), nothing further from the truth.

I respect your opinion and I won't be discussing Álvarez further until at least a few games into next season. I want to see how he's going to be used at Atlético but for now I remain very confident that the 80m fee won't be justified.

 

[NewGlory]

The only question I have is how did Atletico have so much money for one player, but to be honest I really couldn't give a feck what City and Atleti do, other than - I wish we could ever sell somebody from our bench for such high fees. But don't even care for drooling over somebody else's transfers. We should worry about United, imho

 

[dinostar77]

Not sure why this isn't common knowledge as to why they got so much out of the deal.

In a market when Hojlund cost north 70 million, Alvarez who's more proven to some degree does represent decent value for Athletico.

In many regards he's also more dynamic than Halland. He's a top player, no different to if a ridiculous offer came in for Bruno, it's not an outrageous fee.

Now if City sold Nunes for a inflated fee I would understand the bemusement.

I think he will be a success at atletico. The attack will be built to get the best out of him. Whereas at city, he was never the main striker and even the main striker at city (haaland) has to adjust to Guardiola's football philosophy rather than playing to haaland's strengths.

They have had some cracking centre forwards develop under Diego Simeone at atletico. So him and his staff know what they are doing.

Just like with Cole Palmer, there will be questions asked about why City let a 24 year old striker go when he starts to bang them in for atletico.

 

[Red Star One]

Was it a bad sell from Pep? Then again he probably wanted minutes

 

[Ish]

Was it a bad sell from Pep? Then again he probably wanted minutes

He wanted more minutes and they got a very good offer for him. So i wouldn't say it was a bad sell. City/Pep don't generally keep players against their wishes.

 

[Fobal]

Was it a bad sell from Pep? Then again he probably wanted minutes

Not at all for that money and he wasn't in his best form in his last days in City and he never received the type of game that suits him better neither, so he more than probably wanted to really leave.

On the other hand City should have covered his functions. Even in his worst days he ran like a mad man, he provided numbers and now that Foden it's in one his usual lows, City needs his stamina and ever present generosity. Plus he got along with Erling.

 

[Chipper]

City definitely miss having another forward option. Should have spent the money they received.

Hard to judge anyone playing against Sparta Prague. They've now won 2 of their last 12 games and one of them was a 4-0 win in the Czech Cup against a team near the bottom of the 2nd division.

Speaking of City, they spanked them too without Alvarez.

 

[Felixmarte de Hircania]

Julian Alvarez keeps improving game by game. Great loss for City, no doubt.

 

[Red Star One]

Not at all for that money and he wasn't in his best form in his last days in City and he never received the type of game that suits him better neither, so he more than probably wanted to really leave.

On the other hand City should have covered his functions. Even in his worst days he ran like a mad man, he provided numbers and now that Foden it's in one his usual lows, City needs his stamina and ever present generosity. Plus he got along with Erling.

I’d never say it was a bad piece of business - they made money and 75m was a great offer. By a bad sell I mean that city didn’t really need nor invest that money, and they could use Alvarez. But he most likely really wanted to leave so it’s a bit pointless discussion.

 

[Fobal]

I’d never say it was a bad piece of business - they made money and 75m was a great offer. By a bad sell I mean that city didn’t really need nor invest that money, and they could use Alvarez. But he most likely really wanted to leave so it’s a bit pointless discussion.

Maybe they could have played him better, meaning using him less in the flanks and more as wild card as a second forward with liberty. I always thought that more than him being the sub, the issue was him playing any role Pep needed to fill due to injuries or because he wanted to implement a certain system.
The quite silly aspect of this, it's Julian thinking that el Cholo it's that different in that aspect. In City his mates didn't help that much either, he was gradually loosing finesse and maybe even confidence due to not receiving balls with his constant runnings into space and playing so so in his last days there.

Dunno, like you've said if the scenario it's close to what I've felt, he would have gone anyway. All in all covering his absense with someone with at least a similar game was quite obvious fort City.

 

[Fobal]

He has recover his confidence in his game.

Aleti ain't precisly the best place to deliver numbers, yet he is doing his job in great form.
The thing I like the most it's that after starting with a merely good level similar to the one in the NT and his last days in City, where he was quite a bit thick, he regain finsesse and he is looking like in his best River days and periods in City.

He is scoring on every style, but more than that he has been all over the picth connecting really well, with great pases, holding it, he could have had more assists with his mates scoring more and I hope Aleti gives him every dead balls because he looks really dangerous form free kicks.

Anyway Aleti still has some job to do, I've read that he has scored like 12 goals from just 17 shots, he needs to have more opportunities to score in roder to be able to miss without much repercusion.