It really isn't. Both could play every midfield position, appeared as strong and driven characters on the pitch and scored lots of (crucial) goals for their teams. Also they are not the best technicians but rely on physical power rather than trickery to march towards the goal.
Jude Bellingham | Real Madrid player
- Thread starter Samid
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How often did Rooney play out wide or in the 10 though?
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He was versatile enough to do that, but I feel like he wouldn't have had to play there if he stayed longer at his best. It would have been mental to not play peak Rooney as #9, but due to him not keeping that level he had to give up that spot and be used in other positions where he still could add value. At least that's how I remember his career, I might be wrong however due to not being English and not following that closely to everything happening there at the time.
Comparing goal records is so pointless, especially when breaking it down to leagues. If anything, the club you play for matters. That's why Haaland's goal record went up a notch after joining City - they simply create more chances than Dortmund.
Rooney was a more talented player than Lewandowski and at his peak probably better as well but I think he's never been utilized/made it count as well. Even Benzema probably had less raw ability than Rooney but it's a similar case with him, Rooney was probably never as impactful as Benzema in Real's last UCL win.
Rooney was a more talented player than Lewandowski and at his peak probably better as well but I think he's never been utilized/made it count as well. Even Benzema probably had less raw ability than Rooney but it's a similar case with him, Rooney was probably never as impactful as Benzema in Real's last UCL win.
How come Real Madrid manage to sign such top players from BVB while we get Sancho and Mikhi from them ? For God's sake.
Lewa is the better striker, but Rooney is the better all around player and certainly more useful for the team. Covered multiple positions with very good success rate. As a striker alone though, Lewa is more consistent.
They also signed Nuri Sahin some years ago who was the heart of Klopp's Dortmund and he didn't impress. Not every transfer is a success in that direction.
1 good transfer vs 1 bad one is a good ratio.
Meanwhile all our transfers from this team are shit even though they come with a lot of hype.
Sancho I admit is a surprise, Mhiki should never have been signed in the first place. He had one good season out of three at Dortmund, any player could have one good season.
That likely says more about United than about Dortmund.
Can't argue.
I don't think many people would argue that Lewa is the best pure striker of the three.
But peak Rooney was so good I can see how some fans rank him as high as Lewa and Benzema.
Madrid have a plan what to do with the players they sign. They get Bellingham and change the system to create a position thad maximizes his strengthes. You on the other hand pay 90m for Sancho and are surprised that he's not a RW but a 10/inverted LW - something every Dortmunf fan who shows a little interest in tactics could have told you. Plus you seem to bring out the worst character traits of the players in your team.
Sancho was as impressive as Bellingham though, wasn't he?
Rooney was never a #9. He was always a 10. A creative player who was all over the pitch. How many times did you see Rooney doing the defensive part that Ronaldo would never be capable of doing. By and far rooneys best position was a #10. Where he could be a influence all over the pitch. I've never see a guy that would be helping out the left or right back. Then bust a nut to get to the other box jut to make sure he was available to help score. That's the Rooney I know.
He scored 60 g+a in 71 matches as a RW for Dortmund. Yes, he played better as a LW and preferred that position, but to suggest he can't play RW and that excuses his poor performances here is ridiculous. It's clear his problem is more mental rather than ability, he hasn't taken to the extra pressure here (similar to how he never impressed with England during his Dortmund days) and has sulked rather than try and work hard. There are ofcourse additional aspects such as how he mostly played with a very attacking RB (Hakimi, Pizseck, Morey) when he was playing as a RW and transitioning to play with the more AWB was difficult, but then again he's played with Dalot, who is very attacking himself, and hasn't looked good at all. That still is no excuse for how poor he's been.
Where he is right now, I'm sure he won't play well for Dortmund as well even if they play him as a LW on loan.
This is as good of a comparison as I've seen. People forget how much of a sensation Alli was when he first arrived into that Spurs team. Bellingham has far more industry to his game which separates him though in that he can be deployed in different ways and isn't just relying on final third production.
Zidane is a bad comparison. He was much more artistic than Bellingham without as much graft. Pogba was always the Zidane heir stylistically, he just failed to hit that potential
Funny enough that is exactly what Jude has been doing for us. Lunges into tackles around our box, 5 seconds later tries a header on the other side. All over the pitch. Doing a lot of dirty work and occupying the striker position. Combining in midfield and pulling brilliant passes through to create big chances.
Have I been wrong about him. Didn’t really understand his signing but has been brilliant and our best player.
Mentally, he was two steps ahead of others on the pitch.
He scored 60 in 72 games in which transfermarkt has him starting as a RW
Those formations are weong more often than not. Especially in the time when Dortmund played with three at the back, Hakimi as RWB and Sancho as one of two AMs. If you take a look at the heat maps, it is clear he was far more productive on the left than on the right. And that's only goals and assists. When you watched him play, it was so obvious he did far more good things when playing on the left or centrally. And even if you went by those stats, at the time of the transfer it had been quite a while that he played as a RW. And I'm not saying he isn't to blame. There's obviously far more to it.
Yep agreed. Like I said, more artistic. All of the greatest passers in history had that ability to see how things would unfold well before they happened on the pitch. Xavi personally was the greatest I've ever watched at this (really that quartet at Barca with him, Iniesta, Busquets, and Messi in front). It's why it was basically impossible to win the ball of them. Your best hope was to wait until they finally took a shot/attempted a cross and counter from there. Also why great midfielders have always been my favorite type of players to watch in matches even if they never did anything blatantly "exciting" for majority of the game.
Unless you never paid actual attention to ballack play. Bellingham has similar leadership quality at a young age, is a consistent threat in the air and at goal, is as comfortable defending as he is attacking. Plus has similar postional sense and off the ball movement. The only real difference is Bellingham is more naturally techically gifted on the ball and is still developing his passing range.
Genuine question: do you ever, and I mean ever, post anything positive about the club you apparently support? Literally every post I see from you that involves united, features you taking a gigantic dump all over the club.
Never in a million years is he a better dribbler than Zizou. I doubt he ever will be either.
Very similar players. Especially when Ballack was at Leverkusen. Completely fair comparison.
hes not even as good as ballack
I think that poster was referring to Jude being a better dribbler than Gerrard and Ballack.
Re. this, Rooney did have an amazing career, and as for length, I guess it depends what you mean but from the moment he came through, he pretty much had a 13/14 year career at the very top. His top level didn't go into his mid-30s as other players as he peaked much younger than most players, but if you mention "long career", Rooney definitely had that too.
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Rooney played for Utd for 13/14 seasons, won everything there was on offer in the club game, is Utd's all time top scorer. Along the way he scored some some absolute wonder goals.
But he didn't have a long and amazing career.
Ok.
Not quite. He was hyped and impressed a lot. That’s true. But he never carried the team the same way Bellingham did. For me Bellingham was always a bit more special, a bit more suited for the very top.
But I’m not going to pretend Sancho wasn’t an impressive player at Dortmund.
Real are enviable.
They can integrate one or two new players per season and don't feel the difference.
They are a stable team and know exactly where they are going.
In terms of football they are in a weak league where they know they will finish 3rd at least, which gives them the attractivity of the champions league and the stability.
And they especially have some leaders that drive the boat and give freedom to new comers to excels like Jude or Camavinga.
They can integrate one or two new players per season and don't feel the difference.
They are a stable team and know exactly where they are going.
In terms of football they are in a weak league where they know they will finish 3rd at least, which gives them the attractivity of the champions league and the stability.
And they especially have some leaders that drive the boat and give freedom to new comers to excels like Jude or Camavinga.
There's nothing positive about the current United. Supporting the club and realizing we are crap is different things. You just want to hear delusional stuff to make you feel better about the whole thing.
I would make that distinction when it comes to mentality: Bellingham just seems to do everything to get the best out of him and to win (e.g defensive work) until the last minute, whereas Sancho was phlegmatic and lacked discipline both on and off the pitch.
But if you look at their sporting contributions without hindsight (e.g. how they fared at United / Madrid) I'm not sure I would have made that distinction. For example I find it hard to believe that people didn't believe Sancho was carrying the team (hard) when he had his 17g/17a season. While on the other hand Bellingham didn't nearly have the same relentless output for Dortmund as he does now for Madrid. His games were pretty much always of a fairly high standard, but the distinctly game winning moments were more "here and there" or in phases.
I think in the end a lot also just depended on where they moved. Real seem to have created the perfect environment for Bellingham, whereas United couldn't have been much worse for Sancho, even if they had tried.
Wasn’t talking about Zizou.
Unfortunately as a United supporter I have to agree with you. We simply do not at the moment have an environment and sporting setup where players can develop and achieve their full potential. I don't think Sancho's ceiling ever was as high as Bellingham's, but it would have been interesting to see what another club/manager would have gotten out of Sancho.
Sorry bud
Madrid just know how to move players at the right time, they serve as the perfect example of the club / director managing the teams direction not the manager. I don't think a manager has come in, in recent times and had a choice of players to spearhead their tenure a mistake United make time and time again.
Contrary to Bellingham this Madrid team is the perfect environment. I think he would hypothetically have had less of an impact if he was playing five or so years ago with the team under Zidane as there was far more maturity around the positions he's occupying but look at the average age profile of their starting eleven: Valverde, Camavinga, Tchouameni all young then Rodrigo and Vino Jr. It takes the pressure off the young players and he's able to establish himself more prominently. Same reason I feel the class of 92 was a success they came through together not in isolation of one another so there's confidence as a collective.
It's a shame really as it's not rocket science, yes Madrid is a massive destination for almost every player but Perez's planning has been spot on. United are proof that resources amount to very little when clowns excluding the Glazers are still in charge.
Contrary to Bellingham this Madrid team is the perfect environment. I think he would hypothetically have had less of an impact if he was playing five or so years ago with the team under Zidane as there was far more maturity around the positions he's occupying but look at the average age profile of their starting eleven: Valverde, Camavinga, Tchouameni all young then Rodrigo and Vino Jr. It takes the pressure off the young players and he's able to establish himself more prominently. Same reason I feel the class of 92 was a success they came through together not in isolation of one another so there's confidence as a collective.
It's a shame really as it's not rocket science, yes Madrid is a massive destination for almost every player but Perez's planning has been spot on. United are proof that resources amount to very little when clowns excluding the Glazers are still in charge.
Oh, I was aware he slowed down a bit after hitting the ground running but not by that much. Anyway, my point still stands
It is less important in which league you play and more inportant how far ahead of the competition your team is, especially for target strikers who rarely create chances for themselves.Just scored again.