Jude Bellingham | Borussia Dortmund player...

Zehner said:
But I doubt he wants to be moved around for his entire career. If they develop as Madrid expects them to, it would be like having Modric, Kroos, Casemiro and de Bruyne/Verratti/someone of that level in one team. The only comparable situation I can think of is Iniesta, Xavi, Busquets and Fabregas and this didn't last particularly long.
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He's been scoring a bunch of goals, winning the league POTM and getting world class plaudits that way so I don't think he has any problem with the shifting roles. He's contributed to them winning quite a lot while doing that.

If Real want to assemble that core, they'll definitely find a way to make it work imo
 
Zehner said:
I mean, you could only call their formation a diamond when Isco played and then it still takes quite a bit of imagination as Ronaldo still occupied the left wing back then. And when Bale played, it was rather a typical 4-3-3. For me, it was rather a case of a 4-3-3 in which the three attacking players were granted much freedom, one sometimes occupying the half spaces.

Bellingham, Camavinga and Valverde are very similar players. Typical box to box midfielders with lots of energy and directness. Haven't seen too much of Tchouameni but I heard he was a similar player, only a bit more focused on defending. I believe fielding all four of them would look vastly different to what they played under Zidane.
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Probably yes, that was just a quick idea. But considering that Bellingham has played some games on the left wing and Valverde on the right, it could look a bit like Cologne's 4-1-3-2 formation, where the "wingers" move between playing on the wing and more central as left/right CM during defense and early build up, essentially playing a hybrid role.
 
Liverpool not taking the punt on him this summer might be one of the worst mistakes.
 
I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that our plan to not sign any midfielders and put all our eggs in the Bellingham basket, has now somehow gone off the rails.
 
Zehner said:
Tchouameni, Camavinga and Valverde as future world class CMs seems to be enough for me. I don't think you can keep four of them happy
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Why not? They've done it the last few years with Modric, Kroos, Casemiro and Valverde.

They compete on all fronts and thus play 50+ games every season; they can switch formation, Valverde can play right-wing like he has done of late, there's plenty of football for them all.
 
DannyCAFC said:
Why not? They've done it the last few years with Modric, Kroos, Casemiro and Valverde.

They compete on all fronts and thus play 50+ games every season; they can switch formation, Valverde can play right-wing like he has done of late, there's plenty of football for them all.
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I know it is working right now but for me that's more of a momentary snapshot. Valverde has just had his break through for them but eventually he'll want to play in his favorite position. The current solution also requires that you have a RW in your team who's okay with being benched every time Valverde is moved to the wing. That was the case with Rodrygo but he's already showing signs of frustration with his situation. If it stays like this, he'll be gone. If they sign a premium replacement, that player will demand a starting spot as well.

I just don't see this working out in the long term. Find it much more probable that one of those four will fal short. Especially since I wouldn't rule out that they'll need to sign another CM once Modric and Kroos have retired. None of the youngsters are playmaking CMs and Madrid is about to lose two of the best in the world in that discipline.
 
He'll be 20 and would be joining a midfield of 23, 24 and 20 year olds, maybe spend a year with Modric and/or Kroos as well, on a team that essentially would be free him to be a creative attacking playmaker. With Vini (23), Rodrygo(22) as attackers, along with the most midfielder-friendly striker in Benzema. We are literally the best possible environment for him for the next 5 years, only City can compare. Unless someone else comes with an offer that blows us and City out of the water, any other destination would just be stupid for him
 
giorno said:
He'll be 20 and would be joining a midfield of 23, 24 and 20 year olds, maybe spend a year with Modric and/or Kroos as well, on a team that essentially would be free him to be a creative attacking playmaker. With Vini (23), Rodrygo(22) as attackers, along with the most midfielder-friendly striker in Benzema. We are literally the best possible environment for him for the next 5 years, only City can compare. Unless someone else comes with an offer that blows us and City out of the water, any other destination would just be stupid for him
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Agree with this.
 
giorno said:
He'll be 20 and would be joining a midfield of 23, 24 and 20 year olds, maybe spend a year with Modric and/or Kroos as well, on a team that essentially would be free him to be a creative attacking playmaker. With Vini (23), Rodrygo(22) as attackers, along with the most midfielder-friendly striker in Benzema. We are literally the best possible environment for him for the next 5 years, only City can compare. Unless someone else comes with an offer that blows us and City out of the water, any other destination would just be stupid for him
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I think Liverpool would make much more sense. Joining a team with three potentially world class U23 players in his position is definitely a red flag, no matter how you put it. Might work out, might not.
 
SilentWitness said:
If you put in the right bid Dortmund would have sold him.
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Sure. Like every club would for the right bid, but last summer that would probably have meant 200m or something like that. Not because that's his true value, but because Dortmund didn't have to sell and didn't want to lose him.
 
stefan92 said:
Sure. Like every club would for the right bid, but last summer that would probably have meant 200m or something like that. Not because that's his true value, but because Dortmund didn't have to sell and didn't want to lose him.
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I doubt that. Perhaps near 150 but not 200.
 
I agree with Zehner, RM B2B will be crowded role, and it seems like w those 4 they wouldn't really be replacing Modric/Kroos' playmaking and phenomenal passing. And I personally don't think it's necessary to pay that high of a premium for the B2B skillset, there will certainly come along more players with those skills in the next few years, as opposed to more rare skills of goal scoring, consistently beating 1-2 men from wing, or creative vision/passing.
 
Real are the surest bet out of all clubs in terms of future success but at the same time playing in the Premiership has to have massive appeal to an Englishman who has yet to do so. If City go all in for him then I'd make them favourites to sign him.
 
SinNombre said:
Haaland is a pretty lazy example - he has great stats every place he has been in including Norway, Salzburg and the Norwegian NT and there is a reason why United tried to sign him on every one of those moves.

He is not an example of a player who has only had success in the BuLi.

There aren’t many examples of players who have only had success in Germany and even more so at Dortmund who have done well elsewhere.
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Wasn’t Bellingham easily holding his own and in the first 11 week in week out in the Championship at 16? That’s insane btw.

He was ready to play in the Premier League arguably at 17-18.

I still think United should go with De Jong for tactical reasons but I’d still take either obviously to be the main man in our midfield.
 
B20 said:
I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that our plan to not sign any midfielders and put all our eggs in the Bellingham basket, has now somehow gone off the rails.
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I'm content with how BVB are progressing and what we achieved last season. If you're happy with Liverpool's progression, then great ... we're both happy.

But - oh dear! - some Liverpool fans are NOT happy at hearing that Bellingham will NOT be playing for them next season. They WANT WANT WANT, and stamp their feet and get all huffy because DADDY is not giving them what they WANT WANT WANT.

But DADDY can't give them what they WANT WANT WANT because - and contrary to what they've led to believe - DADDY has to deal with other daddies, some of whom couldn't give a stuffed parrot for what DADDY'S little children WANT WANT WANT.

So DADDY'S little children will have to wait until Xmas for their next batch of shiny new toys, even tho' they got tired of the last lot before the end of January had arrived and soon WANTED WANTED WANTED more
 
Red the Bear said:
I'm content with how BVB are progressing and what we achieved last season. If you're happy with Liverpool's progression, then great ... we're both happy.

But - oh dear! - some Liverpool fans are NOT happy at hearing that Bellingham will NOT be playing for them next season. They WANT WANT WANT, and stamp their feet and get all huffy because DADDY is not giving them what they WANT WANT WANT.

But DADDY can't give them what they WANT WANT WANT because - and contrary to what they've led to believe - DADDY has to deal with other daddies, some of whom couldn't give a stuffed parrot for what DADDY'S little children WANT WANT WANT.

So DADDY'S little children will have to wait until Xmas for their next batch of shiny new toys, even tho' they got tired of the last lot before the end of January had arrived and soon WANTED WANTED WANTED more
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Wow. :eek: So much repression to unpack. :lol:
 
Red the Bear said:
I'm content with how BVB are progressing and what we achieved last season. If you're happy with Liverpool's progression, then great ... we're both happy.

But - oh dear! - some Liverpool fans are NOT happy at hearing that Bellingham will NOT be playing for them next season. They WANT WANT WANT, and stamp their feet and get all huffy because DADDY is not giving them what they WANT WANT WANT.

But DADDY can't give them what they WANT WANT WANT because - and contrary to what they've led to believe - DADDY has to deal with other daddies, some of whom couldn't give a stuffed parrot for what DADDY'S little children WANT WANT WANT.

So DADDY'S little children will have to wait until Xmas for their next batch of shiny new toys, even tho' they got tired of the last lot before the end of January had arrived and soon WANTED WANTED WANTED more
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I readily accept we probably won't sign Bellingham.

What I am unhappy with is that we've signed zero midfielders, when we needed two, because we had a masterplan to sign Bellingham next year. And now, it turns out that plan wasn't so masterful after all. Nothing at all was learned from our failed effort with Tchouameni it seems.

Also hope you didn't sprain something typing that. It seems like a hard birthing.
 
Red the Bear said:
I'm content with how BVB are progressing and what we achieved last season. If you're happy with Liverpool's progression, then great ... we're both happy.

But - oh dear! - some Liverpool fans are NOT happy at hearing that Bellingham will NOT be playing for them next season. They WANT WANT WANT, and stamp their feet and get all huffy because DADDY is not giving them what they WANT WANT WANT.

But DADDY can't give them what they WANT WANT WANT because - and contrary to what they've led to believe - DADDY has to deal with other daddies, some of whom couldn't give a stuffed parrot for what DADDY'S little children WANT WANT WANT.

So DADDY'S little children will have to wait until Xmas for their next batch of shiny new toys, even tho' they got tired of the last lot before the end of January had arrived and soon WANTED WANTED WANTED more
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It’s amazing how many heads your post has flown over. :lol:

Bet your sat back rocking in your chair smirking while they all fume. Bless Glaston’s soul.
 
B20 said:
I readily accept we probably won't sign Bellingham.

What I am unhappy with is that we've signed zero midfielders, when we needed two, because we had a masterplan to sign Bellingham next year. And now, it turns out that plan wasn't so masterful after all. Nothing at all was learned from our failed effort with Tchouameni it seems.

Also hope you didn't sprain something typing that. It seems like a hard birthing.
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Yeah for all the talk of your great management that's sure a mismanaged area of yours, wonder if it was klopp himself who thought he could rely on two past it players or whether the management wasn't willing to cough up the money.

Either way you sure have to address that and do it soon if you have any ambitions of competing at the top and not wasting your best players last prime years.
 
Redandwhite22 said:
I agree with Zehner, RM B2B will be crowded role, and it seems like w those 4 they wouldn't really be replacing Modric/Kroos' playmaking and phenomenal passing. And I personally don't think it's necessary to pay that high of a premium for the B2B skillset, there will certainly come along more players with those skills in the next few years, as opposed to more rare skills of goal scoring, consistently beating 1-2 men from wing, or creative vision/passing.
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So, players like Bellingham then
 
Red the Bear said:
I'm content with how BVB are progressing and what we achieved last season. If you're happy with Liverpool's progression, then great ... we're both happy.

But - oh dear! - some Liverpool fans are NOT happy at hearing that Bellingham will NOT be playing for them next season. They WANT WANT WANT, and stamp their feet and get all huffy because DADDY is not giving them what they WANT WANT WANT.

But DADDY can't give them what they WANT WANT WANT because - and contrary to what they've led to believe - DADDY has to deal with other daddies, some of whom couldn't give a stuffed parrot for what DADDY'S little children WANT WANT WANT.

So DADDY'S little children will have to wait until Xmas for their next batch of shiny new toys, even tho' they got tired of the last lot before the end of January had arrived and soon WANTED WANTED WANTED more
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The Glaston special :lol:
 
Redandwhite22 said:
I agree with Zehner, RM B2B will be crowded role, and it seems like w those 4 they wouldn't really be replacing Modric/Kroos' playmaking and phenomenal passing. And I personally don't think it's necessary to pay that high of a premium for the B2B skillset, there will certainly come along more players with those skills in the next few years, as opposed to more rare skills of goal scoring, consistently beating 1-2 men from wing, or creative vision/passing.
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I kind of agree that the premium price Bellingham will likely command is probably excessive in terms of pure skillset or even future potential, because like you said strong box to box players aren't necessarily the rarest of players, although the best of them can really elevate a team. He is however a very complete player, which makes him more unique. The difference on the field between him and another fantastic box-to-box midfielder like, say, Goretzka is probably marginal at best, while the hypothetical price difference would be significant.

That being said, I think for Bellingham the price is maybe also a product of teams gambling on him becoming one of those players that gain a somewhat iconic status in their generation. He's young and among the cream of the crop of talents, and certain teams that can afford to spend that much won't mind. Personally I predict he won't just be among the best midfielders of the next decade or more, but given that he's already captained two teams at 19 and become a starter for England it's not unlikely he could be England captain sooner or later too. There have certainly been players with comparable or more talent, and career achievements Bellingham can only dream of for now, like Modric/Kroos you mentioned, but his experience at his age somewhat sets him apart. Something about him just screams future club legend for whichever team he ends up at, especially if it's an English club. And having club legends a la Gerrard or Lampard can be worth a lot to some teams in terms of club image. Of course you only become a club icon through performances/achievements and have to earn it on the pitch, but some players just exude that quality more than others in terms of image.

Come to think of it, maybe the hype around De Ligt's transfer away from Ajax is a similar case. 85 million euros for a 19 year old centre back could seem like madness, but beyond his fantastic performances and future potential, I reckon he also had a bit of that image of a future captain and star of the game. He already was Ajax captain after all, and in both players' cases that evidence of leadership qualities at such a young age presumably makes a big money move seem a lot less risky than it would otherwise.
 
I hate his attitude. Just watch the scenes in the City Dortmund game where the situation is not like he wants it. Hes always annoyed by his team mates and shows it.
 
Redandwhite22 said:
nah, like Mbappe :) or would be nice to have Kimmich w all those B2B and Tchouameni too. This is RM so we can dream big!
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Bellingham is essentially a high level midfield playmaker, like Modric and Kroos. Different player stylistically, sure, but same result. And he's a great dribbler, the kind who can move out wide and break people down 1on1
 
giorno said:
Bellingham is essentially a high level midfield playmaker, like Modric and Kroos. Different player stylistically, sure, but same result. And he's a great dribbler, the kind who can move out wide and break people down 1on1
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He's nothing like them.
 
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