Eeh. Son, Lewandowski, Dembele*, Kroos, Carvajal, Xabi, Javi Martinez, Aubameyang, Gundogan, Matip, Firmino, Thiago*, De Bruyne...
*when fit
Jude Bellingham | Borussia Dortmund player...
- Thread starter Rozay
- Start date
*when fit
How many examples of high profile players leaving the EPL and being successful elsewhere are there?
But I mean, I'd be glad if all EPL clubs started to think like that. If Bundesliga clubs would actually be able to hold onto their players, the league might finally become interesting again
So did Coutinho, Hazard and Mané in the EPL. Fraud of a league, really.
Haven't read much of the postings, but just to state the obvious really, that is if we get top four, then we should do all we can to sign this kid. He plays like an old-fashioned centre midfielder. He tracks back. Tackles. Wins headers. Passes the ball simply and effectively. Wants to get forward, and scores his quota of goals. Still developing for sure, but I wouldn't want him at City, Spurs, Chelsea or Liverpool because he will improve what are already good teams. No doubt.
I don’t think you understood the statement.
Thiago had a lot of success at Barca. Dembele was considered Mbappe’s equal in France. Javi Martinez? Carvajal? Xabi?
How many examples of high profile players leaving the EPL and being successful elsewhere are there?
But I mean, I'd be glad if all EPL clubs started to think like that. If Bundesliga clubs would actually be able to hold onto their players, the league might finally become interesting again
I recall telling you this during the Sancho transfer saga as well.
I definitely prefer United buying from France or Spain over the Bundesliga.
Does it reflect badly on the league? I don’t know and United fans honestly shouldn’t care.
A BVB hyped player? Nah thanks
Trust me, I prefer United buying from France ir Spain as well. You effectively ruined one of my favorite players to watch. Thanks very much
All three are attackers and all three are confidence players. The BL is friendlier to attackers that much is true but why players succeed or fail is multifaceted. Bellingham is not an attacker and he's the polar opposite of a confidence player. Not that I think we should sign him as he'll be too expensive and I'm guessing ETH wants someone more in the mould of FDJ which Bellingham is not.
The BL isn't a really poor league either. The Belarus league would be better classed as really poor. The BL is one of the best leagues in the world by all objective measures. It's just not as good as La Liga, Serie A or the PL most of the time.
Didn’t Bayern win 14-0 this season 
What are you talking about?!Didn’t Bayern win 14-0 this season
Pep only stays 6 years at City. He won 4 out of the last 5 and Man City is the overwhelming favorite to win it again this season.
Not only are your words changing it is the most bizarre way to claim a player is faster than another!No, not most other wingers in the world, but faster than Salah and Mané in the UCL last season. Which is a fact, not an opinion, like it or not
Your pure existence is to bend over for Bayern. Your league has no balls and just bows down to Kaiser Munich.
City haven't even won 3 on the bounce (yet) despite all their advantages. This league is far superior to yours. Get over it.
This shows how you should generally expect a reduction in output when attackers move from the BL to PL. It doesn't mean that all attackers will not replicate or improve their numbers after making the move, just that generally it's true that you should be a bit sceptical of attackers that put up big numbers in the BL.
Yeah there's been a number of attempts at quantifying league strenght based on different metrics and most of the results agree that the PL and LaLiga are the top 2 most difficult or strongest leagues around, with the PL generally coming off as stronger while LaLiga is more difficult for attacking players. Then there's a gap from those two to Ligue1 and Italy's Serie A, who are also very close to each other, and then a fair bit below is the bundesliga
Mind you, most of those metrics are based off attacking metrics so what they really say is that the Bundesliga is significantly easier/weaker for attacking players then the others
Mind you, most of those metrics are based off attacking metrics so what they really say is that the Bundesliga is significantly easier/weaker for attacking players then the others
Neither is true.
Bayern rules by financial prowess, not obedience. It might be a strange idea for United fans but there actually are clubs that know how to turn their economic edge into on field dominance.
In all seriousness, I honestly don’t know how much leeway Sancho should be allowed.
Of course I want him to succeed and show the form he had at Dortmund where he genuinely looked like a world beater. He was one of the most productive players in the world.
But he’s now played over 50 games for Utd. I’m being 100% serious when I say I can’t remember a single game where I thought he has been outstanding the whole game. I’ve seen moments and that’s it. Like the Liverpool goal. But even when he’s scored he’s been anonymous for far too much of the game.
I don’t even think he’s had any man of the match performances yet after being here nearly 1.5 years. I watch the likes of Saka and Martinelli and see them have outstanding games and have a real threat. I’ve seen it more times just this season than I’ve seen from Sancho since he arrived.
There’s nothing more I’d love for this guy to step it up and be a huge success, but I’ve just not seen anything to give me hope or feeling that he will come good. He’s clearly not performing at the level he did in Germany. Which makes me think there’s only 2 possible explanations. Bundesliga is easier to perform in or he has an issue with having a weak mentality.
In his 50+ appearances so far, I can’t even remember one full back which he’s really troubled all game. Even a pensioner Azpi had a comfortable game against him yesterday.
I just don’t know how much more time we give him to even show us some hope. Antony for example has already shown us that there’s genuine talent that can be worked with and is improving every game. With Sancho it just seems to be the odd moment of “good play” every now and then.
I honestly don’t know what’s happened to him since he’s arrived.
Bundesliga clubs voted for a dictatorship. Bayern have no worries whatsoever of a rich man coming to Germany and making a club successful.
And to cap it off your 'top' teams sell them their best players too.
Nobody in the world tunes in to watch Bundesliga football because it's not competitive.
My goodness you’re bitter
For someone who hates United so much you spend a lot of time on our forum.
Interesting metric, although I'm not sure how much can really be garnered from that in future decisions since there are so many factors that go beyond just moving to a new league. Far more important than the league to me are, the coaching, the position of the player in his new team, the strength of the team they're coming into. Those three things (and I'm sure I'm missing a couple) are far, far more important than the actual league they're coming from or to.
I did say that in my pervious post.
Players like Saka and Martinelli are sulf-sufficient. They carry enough threat as dribblers that they can create space for themselves to work into.
Sancho does not carry that threat, so he needs his teammates to help him find space. Btw, the same is true of Antony. Right now Sancho is probably a bit low on confidence as well, he's playing more within himself and trying less stuff, but mostly the problem is the team isn't creating good situations for him to do damage
Sancho does not carry that threat, so he needs his teammates to help him find space. Btw, the same is true of Antony. Right now Sancho is probably a bit low on confidence as well, he's playing more within himself and trying less stuff, but mostly the problem is the team isn't creating good situations for him to do damage
Yes, and I added context to it with specific factors that are more influential to a good performance in a new league, in my opinion. This wasn't aimed at you, I used your post to highlight my thoughts on the matter.
The prices being quoted are insane, if he moves this summer given our need for a CF I can't see us being in the race
Part of me would prefer FDJ as well
Part of me would prefer FDJ as well
See, I agree with all of that, save for the conclusion you guys make. I believe much can be excused because he joined a shambolic team but you look much better now and while there's still much room for improvement, he definitely has a better platform to shine now. Which makes me think that something is indeed wrong since this smells like self esteem issues.
But blaming it on the league is ignorant. Sanccho wouldn't have been that good performing like that in Germany either. Of course the EPL is stronger altogether but it's not as if attackers got a free run on goal all the time.
I actually agree with that, though they didn't vote for it out of love for Bayern but out of football romanticism. The result is the same though.
Still, the Bundesliga is a hub for talent and innovation, probably not despite but because of 50+1. Your best teams built significant parts of their success on the Bundesliga - both in terms of personnel as well as on tactical concepts, which makes arguing signing Bundeskiga talent is United's problem a pretty ignorant argument. The better question would be why so many Dortmund players failed in one part of Manchester while in the other and much better team currently three former Dortmund players are integral to their success.
if Utd really want to challenge for league and CL titles....they need to bring in either Bellingham or Frenkie in the summer along with a CF
Having a strong center midfield is the key to winning titles. ETH had a brilliant first window and i think we are probably two quality players short of being legit challengers in Europe and England
Bellingham would make a huge difference with this squad....Bruno, Bellingham and Casemiro would be fuking brilliant
Having a strong center midfield is the key to winning titles. ETH had a brilliant first window and i think we are probably two quality players short of being legit challengers in Europe and England
Bellingham would make a huge difference with this squad....Bruno, Bellingham and Casemiro would be fuking brilliant
Of course not, because your sentence contradicts itself. Of course there aren’t many examples of players who only had success in Germany who have done elsewhere, cause then they wouldn’t have only* had success in Germany by definition.
Huh? We are obviously talking about players who moved from Bundesliga without success prior at a different league or for their NT.
Tchouameni, Camavinga and Valverde as future world class CMs seems to be enough for me. I don't think you can keep four of them happy
Why not? Four players for three spots isn't too much but allows rotation and being prepared for injuries.
And if you want to play all four you could use a 442 diamond formation.
Valverde is arguably the most versatile player in the world, he's a genuine Swiss army knife that does everything he's asked well.
I truly think they could make it work
Yeah, there's probably a formation for every possible combination of players out there, the question is whether it makes sense to play four CMs
The 4-4-2 diamond isn't exactly popular these days among top coaches.But I doubt he wants to be moved around for his entire career. If they develop as Madrid expects them to, it would be like having Modric, Kroos, Casemiro and de Bruyne/Verratti/someone of that level in one team. The only comparable situation I can think of is Iniesta, Xavi, Busquets and Fabregas and this didn't last particularly long.
Variations of that aren't very common at the moment, that's true, but Real won both CL finals in 2017 and 2018 by using that formation. So it's absolutely something the club is used to.Yeah, there's probably a formation for every possible combination of players out there, the question is whether it makes sense to play four CMs
Valverde has played on the right wing plenty of times, maybe even same number has he has played CM.
I mean, you could only call their formation a diamond when Isco played and then it still takes quite a bit of imagination as Ronaldo still occupied the left wing back then. And when Bale played, it was rather a typical 4-3-3. For me, it was rather a case of a 4-3-3 in which the three attacking players were granted much freedom, one sometimes occupying the half spaces.
Bellingham, Camavinga and Valverde are very similar players. Typical box to box midfielders with lots of energy and directness. Haven't seen too much of Tchouameni but I heard he was a similar player, only a bit more focused on defending. I believe fielding all four of them would look vastly different to what they played under Zidane.
Yeah but he's still a native CM. Lots of players were used in different positions in the beginning of their careers
My prediction is that they will ditch Camavinga if they get Bellingham. Not immediately, but in a season or two. There's really no way you can get Bellingham, Camavinga and Valverde in at the same time.
If we're smart about it and start engaging Camavinga's agents we might have an Odegaard type situation open up for us.
If we're smart about it and start engaging Camavinga's agents we might have an Odegaard type situation open up for us.