[MarkC]

Looked to me recently like he's been told after pulling out of that tackle a few games ago he has to do more. He isn't a natural tackler though and isn't very brave, I could almost see him go to pull out of the second challenge then realise shit I need to make an effort here which was why it was so badly times/rash.

I actually think he has been playing better as well recently. I honestly don't think SAF would ever have allowed a number 10 like him who cannot tackle. We always have had players there who can work defensively as well. We used to expose teams like City with Silva and Arsenal with there forward players not being able to do defensive duties. You can tell Mata tries but it's all to half hearted.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Both Pool and Arsenal went down to 10 men in their games this weekend. Liverpool went on to overturn a 1-0 deficit to win the game. Arsenal were inches away from doing the same.

We, on the other hand, were pathetic with 11 as we were with 10. Look at our recent PL performances - awful against Chelsea, Sunderland, Watford and West Brom. One half decent game against Arsenal doesn't change that. We haven't turned a corner. We're regressing and there's still room for more (shitness, that is).

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

 

[MoskvaRed]

The first yellow was unbelievably stupid. The second even more so in the context. I will be very glad to see the back of this lightweight when Mourinho arrives. He might not be the worst player we have signed but, for some reason, he just encapsulates for me how badly wrong we have gone the last few years - signing players without character and without any thought on the part of the management as to how they will make the whole more than the sum of its parts.

 

[Nighteyes]

 

[Kevin]

Both Pool and Arsenal went down to 10 men in their games this weekend. Liverpool went on to overturn a 1-0 deficit to win the game. Arsenal were inches away from doing the same.

We, on the other hand, were pathetic with 11 as we were with 10. Look at our recent PL performances - awful against Chelsea, Sunderland, Watford and West Brom. One half decent game against Arsenal doesn't change that. We haven't turned a corner. We're regressing and there's still room for more (shitness, that is).

United have always been pathetic when down to ten men. So much so that threads were made about it wondering wtf other teams can put up a fight when we offer feck all once we get a red. All on Juan Mata this one.

 

[Amar__]

We were terrible before the sending off so I really don't even blame him that much. Yes, it was stupid but that's about it, we were pathethic before the red card and I doubt we would have won the game anyway.

Not justifying him because he shouldn't be doing such a stupid thing as a senior player, but I am not really mad either.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

United have always been pathetic when down to ten men. So much so that threads were made about it wondering wtf other teams can put up a fight when we offer feck all once we get a red. All on Juan Mata this one.

I have never seen such a pathetic performance from 10 men before. We went down to ten against City and Arsenal, last season and were 10 fold better than today.

 

[2mufc0]

Absolute madness from him, cost us the game, thought we were doing OK before he went off, West Bromwich showed no intention of leaving their half until the red card.

 

[Hojoon]

Coquelin, Milner, and now Mata. It's a weekend for bafflingly stupid red cards.

 

[anant]

Mata's 1st was sort of justified from ref's point of view. But that was basically a 0.5 yellow card. The second was a foul. Thats it. He pulled out of the challenge, and the referee to just show his authority might have talked to mata that he is on thin ice. There was no need for a card there. Rather, even if he wasn't on a card, I dont think it was a yellow card worthy foul. The 2nd was in no way a tackle that could have led to injuries, or had malicious intent

 

[Kevin]

I have never seen such a pathetic performance from 10 men before. We went down to ten against City and Arsenal, last season and were 10 fold better than today.

Maybe, but there is no way he comes out of this blameless. 10 vs 11 is a disadvantage in defence and attack, Mata was a moron.

We all knew of our average away record and he made the task even harder 20 mins into the match.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Oh boy... Mourinho must be delighted with selling him to his future team. He probably still gonna pull some match winning performances this season so no witch hunt, hopefully. We just need to win most of remaining matches and he still may be extremely useful then.

 

[Sied]

Turns out you can't give a 0 rating so he gets a 1 from me. Possibly my first 1 rating. He cost us any chance of taking points from today.

 

[sullydnl]

His sending off certainly cost us the game, or at least ensured that we were never going to win.

It shouldn't be that way though. We should be able to compete against West Brom even with ten men, at least to the extent that we aren't sure we have no chance of winning. If we were a well run team then going down to ten men would be a blow rather than a death sentence.

 

[FC Ronaldo]

Jose's not going to like this. Just as he was getting back into some solid form too. Ridiculous.

The Atleti rumours may grow stronger soon...

 

[jem]

A stupid first yellow, but at the time I was thinking thank god it's Mata. There's little chance of him committing a foul for a second booking. 1 minute later and I was feeling a little foolish.

Same with me! I was having a chuckle about it and then....moronic from Mata, but shit happens. I'm sure he feels awful now.

 

[goin4glory]

The definition of a luxury player. One of the reasons I'm pro Mourinho is to see the back of Mata.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

The definition of a luxury player. One of the reasons I'm pro Mourinho is to see the back of Mata.

Yeah. It was pretty luxurious of him to pretty much single handidly win us all 3 points on Wednesday.

 

[a_devil_inside]

Thin both yellow cards were deserved, the first one was just stupid. At least the 2nd he tried to pull out but still caught him

 

[Kostur]

So idiotic, so inexplicable by him it's unreal. Could probably understand that from a younger player or somebody rash with challenges but from Mata?

 

[goin4glory]

Yeah. It was pretty luxurious of him to pretty much single handidly win us all 3 points on Wednesday.

He's been incredibly average/poor his entire time at United. One set piece won't change that Mourinho was right about him and he is a luxury player, he was very poor vs Watford up until he scored the freekick as well.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

He's been incredibly average/poor his entire time at United. One set piece won't change that Mourinho was right about him and he is a luxury player, he was very poor vs Watford up until he scored the freekick as well.

No he wasn't, he was one of our best players in the second half... like he was one of our best players against Arsenal,

 

[Kevin]

He's been incredibly average/poor his entire time at United. One set piece won't change that Mourinho was right about him and he is a luxury player, he was very poor vs Watford up until he scored the freekick as well.

Agreed. Not the player we thought we were getting. But I guess Arsenal can say the same about özil.

 

[goin4glory]

No he wasn't, he was one of our best players in the second half... like he was one of our best players against Arsenal,

And what about the first half when we got completely overran and should have been 2-0 down? He certainly wasn't one of our best players vs Arsenal.

 

[Cheesy]

Yeah. It was pretty luxurious of him to pretty much single handidly win us all 3 points on Wednesday.

I feel like the phrase 'luxury player' is a bit daft in general. I assume it implies someone who's alright, but fairly expendable...but it's never really explained in depth by those who use it and has become a weird cliche that people seem to use a lot regarding him whenever he has a poor game.

He's had spells this season where he's largely been anonymous, but I'd still have him down as one of our better attacking players this season (not a great feat admittedly) because he's produced some good goals/assists at times. I mean, our 3-0 win against Stoke a few weeks back was probably one of our best this season (again, admittedly, not too difficult), and Mata was involved heavily in the build-up for every single goal. If a luxury player is someone who produces a few nice touches but doesn't do much else, then I'm not sure how Mata applies...because for all of his faults, of which there have been plenty in his time here, he is actually quite productive. Which isn't a luxury at all...it's an essential.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

And what about the first half when we got completely overran and should have been 2-0 down? He certainly wasn't one of our best players vs Arsenal.

He was brilliant against Arsenal. Anyone saying otherwise has agenda tinted specs on... hell, even some of his biggest critics on here praised his performance in this very thread after that game.

First half vs. Watford everyone was crap... so at least he and a few others turned up for the second half.

 

[skidmark]

Mata's 1st was sort of justified from ref's point of view. But that was basically a 0.5 yellow card. The second was a foul. Thats it. He pulled out of the challenge, and the referee to just show his authority might have talked to mata that he is on thin ice. There was no need for a card there. Rather, even if he wasn't on a card, I dont think it was a yellow card worthy foul. The 2nd was in no way a tackle that could have led to injuries, or had malicious intent

Nah, both were yellow cards. Both were silly yellow cards.

 

[Snow]

I feel like the phrase 'luxury player' is a bit daft in general. I assume it implies someone who's alright, but fairly expendable...but it's never really explained in depth by those who use it and has become a weird cliche that people seem to use a lot regarding him whenever he has a poor game.

He's had spells this season where he's largely been anonymous, but I'd still have him down as one of our better attacking players this season (not a great feat admittedly) because he's produced some good goals/assists at times. I mean, our 3-0 win against Stoke a few weeks back was probably one of our best this season (again, admittedly, not too difficult), and Mata was involved heavily in the build-up for every single goal. If a luxury player is someone who produces a few nice touches but doesn't do much else, then I'm not sure how Mata applies...because for all of his faults, of which there have been plenty in his time here, he is actually quite productive. Which isn't a luxury at all...it's an essential.

Can't expect much from people that speak in phrases and bullet points without explaining themselves whatsoever. They're best ignored.

 

[goin4glory]

He was brilliant against Arsenal. Anyone saying otherwise has agenda tinted specs on... hell, even some of his biggest critics on here praised his performance in this very thread after that game.

First half vs. Watford everyone was crap... so at least he and a few others turned up for the second half.

Memphis/Herrera/Varela/Rashford all rated higher than him so be realistic. I have no idea who his biggest critic on here is so that's a non argument. He has the odd moment of quality games but his overall contribution is average.

 

[sullydnl]

And what about the first half when we got completely overran and should have been 2-0 down? He certainly wasn't one of our best players vs Arsenal.

He was excellent against Arsenal. Even posters who dislike him said as much.

 

[Fergus' son]

So typical of him - his entire Utd career has been one step forward two steps back. I can't wait til we aren't relying on the likes of him anymore and I wish we had never bought him.

 

[goin4glory]

I feel like the phrase 'luxury player' is a bit daft in general. I assume it implies someone who's alright, but fairly expendable...but it's never really explained in depth by those who use it and has become a weird cliche that people seem to use a lot regarding him whenever he has a poor game.

He's had spells this season where he's largely been anonymous, but I'd still have him down as one of our better attacking players this season (not a great feat admittedly) because he's produced some good goals/assists at times. I mean, our 3-0 win against Stoke a few weeks back was probably one of our best this season (again, admittedly, not too difficult), and Mata was involved heavily in the build-up for every single goal. If a luxury player is someone who produces a few nice touches but doesn't do much else, then I'm not sure how Mata applies...because for all of his faults, of which there have been plenty in his time here, he is actually quite productive. Which isn't a luxury at all...it's an essential.

It may end up being another "world class" debate since people are likely to have different definitions of what defines the term. For me he's a luxury player because he can't perform to a high level without having the team built around him or playing to his strengths specifically. When he's out wide he's wasted due to lack of pace/ability to beat players, and when he get's played in the 10 and has a stinker it's because we need pace in the wide areas to get the best out of him or because Rooney is the striker (which I partly agree with for the record) or the CM's don't offer enough support and play too cautiously etc, there's just always an excuse and it doesn't surprise me that our midfield regularly get's overran when he's at the 10 and players who've looked excellent in previous clubs/teams are far worse with him around I.E Darmian/Schneiderlin.

He's not Messi/Ronaldo/Aguero etc He's not good enough to build a team around and there's plenty of attacking midfielders in Europe we'd be better off with in the team.

Can't expect much from people that speak in phrases and bullet points without explaining themselves whatsoever. They're best ignored.

I don't recall using too many bullet points but next time I'll be sure to respond within 5minutes so you don't get so upset.

 

[goin4glory]

He was excellent against Arsenal. Even posters who dislike him said as much.

I don't like him and he wasn't one of our best players, as I mentioned above 4 others got rated ahead of him in the match day voting so let's not go overboard. Even if he was having the odd game here or there isn't enough to justify his inclusion when he's completely anonymous for long spells of the season. Mata is a 37m international on huge wages, sure he's done alright when you compare it to Lingard/Memphis but he should be getting compared to the alternatives we could and should be looking at. Griezmann being the obvious stand out name.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Memphis/Herrera/Varela/Rashford all rated higher than him so be realistic. I have no idea who his biggest critic on here is so that's a non argument. He has the odd moment of quality games but his overall contribution is average.

You mean players who were anywhere between .2 and .4 higher rated? I can be realistic if you don't want to be pedantic.

Personally I thought he was one of our best players... Objectivity he was excellent.

 

[goin4glory]

You mean players who were anywhere between .2 and .4 higher rated? I can be realistic if you don't want to be pedantic.

Personally I thought he was one of our best players... Objectivity he was excellent.

I'm using an actual rating system since the argument really doesn't go anywhere if it's based on your eye test and opinion vs mine. There's also a number of players who are within .2 and .4 of him rated lower.

 

[gza the genius]

Very stupid of him but oh well, it happens. He's been one of the players that has stepped it up recently so I can't be too mad at him. We still should have won today as well.

 

[Vato]

That was in no world a red. You dont give a player second yellow for such a light foul!
It was stupid, but red is no way justified.
Its like every tackle where ball is not cleanly won a yellow card now

Completely agree.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I'm using an actual rating system since the argument really doesn't go anywhere if it's based on your eye test and opinion vs mine. There's also a number of players who are within .2 and .4 of him rated lower.

Even by using the "official rating system" he's still one of our best players along with those other 4. There is no real limit as to how many can be your better players.

The rating also shows he had a very good/excellent game... So you're whole argument is completely self defeating.

He was voted MOTM on this forum vs. Watford. You said he was crap... Go figure.

 

[Fergus' son]

He was good vs Arsenal, doesn't excuse him idiotic display today though.