How will a smattering of good moments prove that he's more than just a smattering of good moments? And where did anyone state that he's supposed to be an all action midfielder?
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 54
- Goals
- 11
- Assists
- 11
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
The love for Mata way out weighs his performances imo. At times he's a passenger and one of our weakest links. Yet if he scores a goal or an assist he's suddenly the best player in our team. Truth be told he's not best suited to the role he plays for us but his left foot is a wand. I'd rather see him in his best position and a player more suited playing where he is playing right now.
Thing is you can't look at the stats because they just don't match up with what you're saying. Take yesterday for example, Mata had as many touches of the ball as Wayne Rooney (the bloke playing centrally), and made 10 more passes then him - I mean, how much more involved can he be? And that's just not a one off, he's quite often our attacking player who has had the most touches and made the most passes (the problem arises when too many of those passes become safe and he's just not really doing anything with the ball) - so he's obviously always involved in the game, and you can tell this from watching the game. Mata will never shy away from the ball and will always look to get on it.
its funny you mention this, as when I watch him at old Trafford as soon as he moves central and receives the ball he is pounced on immediately by defenders, he never has time on the ball and is juust nicking the pass away in time. that might be to do with his small frame and lack of pace but on the right he does tend to have more space drifting in as the forgotten man.
What does the man have to do to be properly appreciated on here? People are downright blind if they think the goal and assist was all he did in an otherwise anonymous performance. If Martial or Depay had played like that, there would be universal raving.
It's crazy how high standards people measure Mata up to. He's been consistently one of our best players since he came and still people are debating whether he should start or not. Madness.
It's crazy how high standards people measure Mata up to. He's been consistently one of our best players since he came and still people are debating whether he should start or not. Madness.
He's sometimes a passenger in that he'll have some very quiet games where he's not particularly effective (like most players), but he's not one of our weakest links. I really don't see that at all. You're saying he's "suddenly the best player in our team" when he scores as assists as if it's a thing he only does occasionally...when in actual fact he's regularly one of our most productive players. I'm struggling to name many players in our team who are better performers than him. Mata's been the most consistent and effective player along our attacking trios behind the striker: his end product far outweighs Depay's, while the rest of them have been in and out of the team.
You're quoting stats to someone who has already said that the stats can mask performances. How is that ever going to work? And the fact that he drifts infield to get on the ball isn't proof that he's playing brilliantly, it's proof that his starting position is all wrong. Yes, he would be better centrally, no your stats still didn't convince me that everything I've seen in the 18 months he's been at United is invalid.
He's a very talented player who has moments of brilliance. I think he's capable of more than we've seen.
Please don't reply with more stats.
Well I started my entire post with "you can't look at the stats because they just don't match up with what you're saying." so obviously I'm going to quote stats, but I've also qualified my post by saying "he's quite often our attacking player who has had the most touches and made the most passes (the problem arises when too many of those passes become safe and he's just not really doing anything with the ball) - so he's obviously always involved in the game, and you can tell this from watching the game."
This was in response to him "going missing" - but how can he go missing when he's one of our players who's always getting on the ball? Unless you're saying you don't notice him getting on the ball when watching the game? But then that wouldn't make a great deal of sense. The criticism could be that he doesn't do enough with the ball considering how much of it he gets, but I'm not entirely sure that's what you're saying.
For me, his starting position is only wrong for those people who want something different from that position (a winger who runs at defences namely) but considering we have that on the other wing, I'm more then happy for him to do what he's doing on that side of the pitch and consistently effect games in the manner which he's doing.
So I looked up some numbers and it turns out he has the highest interceptions (1.4) and tackles (1.2) / 90 mins in the league out of our attacking players (so not including Schmidfield and Carrick). Not bad for someone with a little bit of a reputation of being a passenger defensively. And yes, I know stats don't show the whole picture but they do tell you something. I've noticed him tracking back and helping out a lot in games directly as well.
I still don't get where people get this idea from.
As I see it the reason he actually gets any space in the central areas is because he drifts in from the right and the full-back can't follow him in to mark him.
Ultimately I think that a player of his ability should be running the game - he should be at the centre of everything. And yes, for me this would mean him playing in the middle and not out wide. I'd prefer a quick wide man and Mata central. I'd even consider playing Wilson on the right and, yes, I'd be happy to bench Rooney to give Mata the chance to influence the match from what I think would be his best position.
I just feel like, in the right set up he could be more influential.
He's by fat our best option on the right, maybe he could be our best option at #10, but that does not make him better than Silva. I'm saying this as someone who wants Mata in the team every week.
I don't understand people who compare Mata and Silva, they play completely different roles, one is a creator, other is finisher. Mata is much more a forward than an midfielder, he is at his best in and around the box, Silva on the other hand is more midfielder than a forward.
And as much as I had doubts over him he is starting to convince me he is really good at what he does. His stats are very good and just a fact that he plays so much could tell you that LVG rate him highly too. There are not many wide forwards who score and assist as much as Mata does.
And as much as I had doubts over him he is starting to convince me he is really good at what he does. His stats are very good and just a fact that he plays so much could tell you that LVG rate him highly too. There are not many wide forwards who score and assist as much as Mata does.
Yet this says not much as Depay has been stone average since he joined and Rooney not much better this season. The 10 has chopped and changed but I'm never going to say he's the best player in the team as he clearly isn't but he does possess massive qualities like touch and passing but where he plays its better to be good on one v ones and or have pace and Mata is lacking in these qualities. You'll see the difference when he's replaced in this position. He must be played as a ten to get the best out of him, playing where he is now kills virtually every attacking momentum up the right side.
No chance was Mata the third fastest player on the pitch. He was easily outpaced by van Aannholt coming into the box on 61 minutes. Luckily, De Gea was able to make the save.
Always thought he was an assist-machine at Chelsea but since joining us he seems to have become more of a goalscorer.
Not surprising then that he got 18 in 93 appearances for Chelsea and he's hit that for us already in 62.
Just because you "say" that doesn't mean you get to reposition the argument entirely to suit your skewed subjective view..it's like saying "yeah you can prove we landed on the moon with facts and data and stuff, but you're talking to someone who doesn't believe there is a moon, so everything you say is void"
It's not really our problem if you're determined to ignore things that don't back your opinions up. It's yours.
And that goes for a shit load of daft posts in here....like this absolute nonsense, backed up by absolutely nothing
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I hope Mata never stumbles onto the Caf, some of the criticism he gets on here is mental.
I am beginning to judge some posters ability to analyse football performances on their opinion of Mata.
I am beginning to judge some posters ability to analyse football performances on their opinion of Mata.
Football isn't an exact science though is it? Skewed subjective views (is there any other type of personal opinion? Isn't the entire point of an opinion that it is utterly dependent on the individual? How can that not be Skewed?) are part of football and part of the reason why you and I can discuss someone like Juan Mata. You have cold, hard reason - aka assists and goals on whoscored - and I have my uninformed and blinkered gut-reaction to his part in the full 90 minutes.
And I'm not determined to ignore facts and figures, clearly Mata is an effective player and one who, over the course of a game, has a high chance of playing a part in or scoring a goal. Iirc this was the case even during Moyes reign but I was still slightly disappointed by him. Furthermore, even facts can be presented in a way that emphasises a subjective opinion - which is still skewed. Newspapers do this on a daily basis to promote their own specific agenda.
I mean, you could tell me that Mata has more touches in the opposition half than other United player but then again, if we're playing 2 dms, 2 kids and Wayne Rooney then I would expect that. Doesn't mean he's had a great game.
Or you could tell me that he has the most assists. But who would be next in line, Daley Blind? A centre back? You could tell me that his pass completion is the best in the side (because of the bulk of his passes being short ones to Darmian or the nearest DM) but maybe you'd omit successful through balls? So why would it be a problem for me to prefer what I see with my own eyes rather than a post-match figure presented by someone who already has their own opinion and may well be just as inflexible?
Those stats are amazing really. There's been an underlying theme throughout his United career has been that he's a shadow of his former, Chelsea self. Turns out that this shadow is considerably more prolific than the original!
Obviously, there's been a drop off in assists but he took every set-piece for Chelsea and only rarely takes corners or free-kicks from wide areas at United. Which will account for most of that discrepancy.
This looks like another example of that typical bias you get in football when you watch your own team's players in every minute of every game all season but watch rival players in highlight reels only.
True. I guess it's partly down to that one excprtionally productive season he had at Chelsea (12-13) - he's not matched that in terms of goals, but by his own standards that was a particular purple patch.
Never quite matched it but came bloody close last season, despite not taking the set-pieces referred to above. It's just funny that us United fans can watch him come within 3 goals and 1 assist of that uber-hyped season with Chelsea and still spend almost all of it slagging him off (and I'm including myself in this criticism!).
He's benefiting hugely from Martial so he gets more of a free role, brilliant little player.
Exactly.
His performances here and KdB's performances in Germany have sort of put down another Mourinho myth i.e he always knows when to sell players. Mata/KdB would currently walk in Chelsea's first XI.
Meanwhile our right hand side of the attack is non existent
No, it's not. If it was non-existent then we wouldn't be getting regular assists and goals from the player who's playing on the right hand side of the pitch. I get that Mata can sometimes have fairly quiet patches in a game, but to argue he's non-existent in his role is ridiculous.
And now, Mou would rather have them than his existing lot.
True enough, I hate the lazy argument that because a certain manager didn't see where a player fits into their team or a young players potential that this can then be used as a stick to beat the player with. It's an annoying brand of reductio ad absurdum that seems to pollute the forums.
I didn't even know that was a thing. For me he only knows how to buy players for immediate impact. Arsene Wenger is the one who should have a reputation for knowing when to sell.
I think Mata is re-writing job description for a winger.
He has been superb so far.
He has been superb so far.
I think mata's position is fine, he is not stuck on the wing he comes inside and gets involved in the play, interchanging, and with the ability and speed of matial and memphis, not to mention young is a pretty good impact sub he is enjoying his football. Most important part having mata, can assist and score goals, and we need mata especially now he has got the players around him to work his magic, this is probably the perfect team for mata at the minute
i also came across this which shows how vital Juan Mata is for us:
Since Juan Mata signed for Manchester United in January 2014, no other midfielder has scored more goals from open play. Yaya Toure and Eden Hazard are the only midfielders to score more goals in total, although almost a third of their goals have come from the penalty spot.
Yaya Toure
Goals: 20
Goals without pens: 14
Eden Hazard
Goals: 20
Goals without pens: 14
Juan Mata
Goals: 17
Goals without pens: 16
As proven by Valencia, it can be used very well if the full back is effective going forward. Valencia is much more willing than Darmian but unfortunately doesn't have the crossing ability. There is loads of space to be exploited on the right, it isn't always upto the winger to do so and Mata is clearly allowed to what he's good at, move infield and not waste time trying to do a Robben.
Disregarding their starting positions, wouldn't Matrial drifting out wide, with Mata cutting inside and Rooney pushing up keep our right side dangerous?
Anyways, about Mata, his stats are just astonishing. More than merits his place at the moment, imo.
Anyways, about Mata, his stats are just astonishing. More than merits his place at the moment, imo.
Why isn't this thing showing number of assists? Surely that's the third most important stat on such a list?
Glad ppl are starting to see how effective he can be in the position van gaal has deployed him in. Sick of the "hes not a winger" "needs to play in the middle" "not effective outwide" brigade . Feck sake doesnt need to do step overs and run like usain bolt. he has his own style and is doing well where he's playing.
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