He played poorly yesterday, but regardless, I do not think the trio works. Even in the long run, it isn't ideal.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 35
- Goals
- 10
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
He played poorly yesterday, but regardless, I do not think the trio works. Even in the long run, it isn't ideal.
Can anyone pinpoint the differences between Mata and Silva? I don't believe Silva is any quicker than Mata, he is a little classier on the ball and I reckon his vision is a little better but the main reason for my query is why Silva manages to play wide but Mata can't
For me it's the system and the players around him. Silva benefits from having dynamic pacey players around him that are constantly providing options and a solid midfield (and Zabaleta) behind him and supporting him whereas Mata doesn't have that pace around him and has to put in a shift defensively when he's out wide.
Silva is more of a dribbler and can drift past players with ease, mata isn't really like that. Mata is more about always providing the final ball and has excellent movement, set pieces and is a good finisher. He's a really productive player, but not so much of an individual while silva can create something on his own a lot more often. You need to have that bit of individualism to play out wide.
Mata was very disappointing yesterday. Nowhere near the level he's shown at the end of last season or near the level he's shown at Chelsea in the 2 seasons before Mourinho happened. Mata made things happen at Chelsea and I know he's capable of doing that here as well like he did during the latter end of last season. I think this tour has taken too much out of our players, having to play against good opposition 2 times a week at such an early stage in your preparation.
Mata much like any number 10, is best playing off the striker in a 4231 system, 442 does not work for mata, no does 433 unless its seen has a 4231. 352 can work, but not when our forwards and midfield are pretty much slow and lacking creativity. We have a problem with Rooney/RVP axis that is colliding with fitting mata into the team, and all 3 are not the most mobile of players, so our strongest point of our squad does not dove tail because of the lack of pace in the forward line. That means you need speed and creativity from your wide players, and mobility from your CM. You basically have to build a system around mata, and 352/442/433 does not work, especially if mata is used has one of the front 3. 4231 is the only way to get the best out of mata
Take our system, it does not work with mata, why? because of certain pieces/players in our system that makes mata ineffective. Hernandez is very ridged, he stays up top, rooney is not very quick, and we have no wide players playing, and our midfield is not very good, herrera can be, but fletcher is a squad player at best. So you bring all these factors to the table, no wonder mata is struggling. The simple fact is we need another wide player, we need another CM player and a defender to play 4 at the back, and 2 natural wide players who can bring mata into play, and help the front man
If LVG can sign a wide player CM and a defender, we can play 4231 with
------DDG--------
?? smalling jones shaw
herrera ??
?? mata janazaj
rooney/RVP
So for mata to work, it has to be 4231, not 352. The worry we are sticking to 352 when our forwards have no pace. which is the same problem has last season
Take our system, it does not work with mata, why? because of certain pieces/players in our system that makes mata ineffective. Hernandez is very ridged, he stays up top, rooney is not very quick, and we have no wide players playing, and our midfield is not very good, herrera can be, but fletcher is a squad player at best. So you bring all these factors to the table, no wonder mata is struggling. The simple fact is we need another wide player, we need another CM player and a defender to play 4 at the back, and 2 natural wide players who can bring mata into play, and help the front man
If LVG can sign a wide player CM and a defender, we can play 4231 with
------DDG--------
?? smalling jones shaw
herrera ??
?? mata janazaj
rooney/RVP
So for mata to work, it has to be 4231, not 352. The worry we are sticking to 352 when our forwards have no pace. which is the same problem has last season
Should have gone off with Kagawa coming on
Interesting that didn't happen, I guess we wanted to add a bit of pace with Nani though.. maybe..
Probably but it didn't make sense to me either - he hardly played during pre-season
I thought Nani was a decent sub and he played well, but Kagawa should have came on for Mata instead of Fellaini for Herrera.
Silva never actually plays as a winger, but just starts from wide and drifts in - for me he has better movement, and therefore finds himself in space at all times which makes it easier for him (just watching Silva drift around finding space without the ball highlights exactly why Spain produce better footballers than England IMO). He's probably a better dribbler too which will help.
His lack of pace is really a bit of a headache.
The fact he plays with little pace in front of him makes it worse.
This 3-5-2 formation is basically set up so we can play Mata. A player of his quality has to play along with Rooney and RvP. It's not good putting him on the wing as we seen last season. Only problem is I think we will struggle playing that formation, we were always terrific at OT because the pitch is so big and we used to utilise that with our pacy wingers who could actually beat a man and get a good ball in, or alternatively cut in and cause some damage.
With Mata in the team, everything is based on going through the centre and we don't seem to create any clear cut chances. Obviously it's only been one game but there was signs of it last season. It's basically the same with Kagawa, SAF wanted to play him but knew he had to play Rooney and RvP, Kagawa started featuring on the wing but it wasn't right and he couldn't show his true ability. Our team has always been based on pace, we were regarded as one of the best counter attacking teams in Europe but that's no longer the case, we are too slow on the break and have no unpredictability apart from Januzaj.
With Mata in the team, everything is based on going through the centre and we don't seem to create any clear cut chances. Obviously it's only been one game but there was signs of it last season. It's basically the same with Kagawa, SAF wanted to play him but knew he had to play Rooney and RvP, Kagawa started featuring on the wing but it wasn't right and he couldn't show his true ability. Our team has always been based on pace, we were regarded as one of the best counter attacking teams in Europe but that's no longer the case, we are too slow on the break and have no unpredictability apart from Januzaj.
No doubt. Which makes a proper singing in that area even more important to get the best out of him.
I think signing Di Maria would help, although I feel like we have a major issue with the lack of pace amongst our Strikers (barring Wellbeck)
He is hardly closing players down. Another weakness why Mourinho didn't prefer him.
Silva is more dynamic and can't get marked out of a game, he is usually ever-present. He can run with the ball and beat players. Mata has better finishing and times his runs better into the box.. useful for a team which dominates the game, sadly we don't.
I think this is a make or break season for Mata, if he doesn't fit in with LVG's system..he's gone.
Silva is a proper playmaker. He makes City play better football.
Mata is more of a final 3rd player. He's a brilliant but not the knd of player we needed.
Mata is more of a final 3rd player. He's a brilliant but not the knd of player we needed.
He looked good with Welbeck and Rooney as strikers, he just needs a little more movement and pace around him, that won't happen with Rooney & Hernandez as strikers and I doubt it will with RVP & Rooney as strikers given our current 'non-specialist wing-backs'. Ideally we play Welbeck/Januzaj & RVP/Rooney as strikers with Mata in behind or we have to switch to 4-2-3-1 with Mata as #10.
Was not good against Swansea, wasn't against Valencia and I thought he was also down against Looserfool
Pace in front of him is key, and he's useless when there is no movement on the wings for him
Soon I expect a big debate on him and his positioning on the team
How can we adapt him Roo and RVP in a 3-5-2 with Young and Valencia on the wing with no protection from behind....
Pace in front of him is key, and he's useless when there is no movement on the wings for him
Soon I expect a big debate on him and his positioning on the team
How can we adapt him Roo and RVP in a 3-5-2 with Young and Valencia on the wing with no protection from behind....
If we lack pace and work-rate around him we are better of with Kagawa who is much better defensively than Mata. Mata has really got off to a bad start in terms of his defensive work-rate which I think has deteriorated from under Moyes.
Hopefully he is asked to play the role like that, which would explain a lot.
Hopefully he is asked to play the role like that, which would explain a lot.
His latest blog post:
I'd say the following reasons:
1. Silva is quicker than mata. He's not very quick but unlike mata it's enough to take on defenders.
2. He's also got far better ball control. I don't think there's another player in this league who keeps the ball glued so close to his foot. Ozil is similar but not at Silva's level. The consistency with which he's in completely control is brilliant.
3. He's a proper playmaker whereas Mata is more an attacker who likes to score and create goals in the final rid of the pitch. Silva is not as likely to score as mata, but because he gets others involved and pulls the strings, his starting position is less relevant than mata, who needs to be in specific areas to be effective.
I agree. Would love to see more from Danny this season, but the fecker cannot stay fit.
This is why I'm not convinced the choice between mata and Kagawa is as straightforward as many here think. Mata is no doubt more likely to decide games, but if you're struggling to get your passing rhythm going, Kagawa is more likely to help with that as he works harder and is better at dropping deep to link up.
If he can improve his finishing and a little bit his passing he would be a terrific player. He's got pace, he can get around players but he isn't deadly in front of goal. I would definitely like to see him start alongside Rooney or RVP.
So how long until Mata's credits that he got at Chelsea run out and he starts being judged as a failure? Because IMO he has been a huge disappointment.
He's not really been particularly poor, it just looks like square peg round hole so far.
We sorely lack pace in the team. Mata sorely lacks pace around him to be effective.
We sorely lack pace in the team. Mata sorely lacks pace around him to be effective.
He's been poor in a few games. He was just as bad as others in some of our bad matches last season. He had some decent games (against average opposition). Anyway, the point is he hasn't been anywhere near his standard though, especially now that the team is basically built so we can play him in this 3-5-2. He should be doing more. He looks better when Welbeck plays so I am willing to wait and see how he goes with him back in the side but if he still underperforms then it will be a big issue.
He never had any defensive work rate at Chelsea either
He is a luxury player who will look great in a winning team
I was never overly up for his transfer, he wasn't a player we were crying out for and to smash our transfer record for him was a real sign of desperation.
It's also an unusual situation that we signed a player from a club who were in a far better situation than utd at that time. Chances are he would much prefer to have stayed where he was if he could have gotten games.
I think that is pretty harsh even if I agree that I thought he'd be a bit of a luxury player defensively. Under Moyes he played extremely well in the defense though, better than ever in his career and I was hoping he would continue with it.
Extremely well compared to previous in his career that is.
He has been poor by his standards (more hot and cold I guess, as we have seen flashes of brilliance in his short time here), but with the team so lacking in quality i'd much rather try and shoehorn him into the team out of position than rely and dross like Cleverley, Fellaini, Fletcher (
), Anderson, Nani, Valencia and Young. Then we have the likes of Welbeck, Hernandez and Kagawa, who although are better than the first bunch of players (some will claim this is debate-able), still have a lot to prove. Again, Mata has hardly set the world alight but he is proven quality that still only has half a season in a complete shambles of a team under his belt.
It's a little depressing every time you think about the state of our team (and that's without considering the mess that is our defence!). It's even worse when you realise that in two weeks time we are stuck with it!
), Anderson, Nani, Valencia and Young. Then we have the likes of Welbeck, Hernandez and Kagawa, who although are better than the first bunch of players (some will claim this is debate-able), still have a lot to prove. Again, Mata has hardly set the world alight but he is proven quality that still only has half a season in a complete shambles of a team under his belt.It's a little depressing every time you think about the state of our team (and that's without considering the mess that is our defence!). It's even worse when you realise that in two weeks time we are stuck with it!
He was slammed a bit by Eurosport today, not sure I agree with it all though.
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blog...iocre-mata-nowhere-hide-season-121235933.html
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blog...iocre-mata-nowhere-hide-season-121235933.html
He seems such a nice guy, really needs to pick up a couple of yards though.
He's lacking movement in front of him. It's the same issue when kagawa plays. Everyone wants to come short for a pass to feet, no one wants to make a run. It's basically as simple as that.
The main difference? Sergio Aguero and Edin Dzeko. You put Mata in that City team which makes runs for fun, and he'll look as good as Silva.
FFS, the overreaction by a few here is amusing. This is the same player many of you were jizzing over throughout our preseason tour in the States. There's nothing wrong with Mata or for that matter, Kagawa. They are technically brilliant footballers that most sides would love to have. We just need to eradicate the caveman football mentality that's prevalent in most of our players. I have complete faith in LVG bringing modern, attractive football to United, but Rome wasn't built in a day.
It will always be like that with these kind of players. If Silva was playing for us ppl would still moan that he doesn't get as many goals and assists like Mata.
Once Mata gets his regular assists ppl will praise him non-stop again. Then when he has a game like yesterday's all will be bad again.
Difference between Silva and Mata?
Well Silva is the better player.
As others have also pointed out they are a bit different.
However, Silva has a miles better midfield next to him to cover him as well as better wingers/strikers with allround skills and movement. With a striker like Chicarito and wingers/wingbacks like the ones we started against Swansea any No 10 will struggle. Which doesn't mean Mata didn't have a poor game, but you can't compare Mata and Silva without also comparing the players around them.
Once Mata gets his regular assists ppl will praise him non-stop again. Then when he has a game like yesterday's all will be bad again.
Difference between Silva and Mata?
Well Silva is the better player.
As others have also pointed out they are a bit different.
However, Silva has a miles better midfield next to him to cover him as well as better wingers/strikers with allround skills and movement. With a striker like Chicarito and wingers/wingbacks like the ones we started against Swansea any No 10 will struggle. Which doesn't mean Mata didn't have a poor game, but you can't compare Mata and Silva without also comparing the players around them.
I don't think that's all of it. Silva is more agile and seems to be able to get on the ball more, whatever the formation, when playing out wide. His first touch might be a bit better, too. Basically, he's better at receiving the ball and facing goal.
As a 10, Silva sometimes struggles I think, but as a narrow wide player, he's better than Mata is in any position.
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