We are not able to get him involved as much as I would like. He always looks dangerous and looks to make things happen when he has the ball, but he is just not getting on the ball enough. He started the pre-season brightly, but his involvement in games has decreased on almost game by game basis.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 35
- Goals
- 10
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
If used correctly, but the premiership has been changing over the last two seasons. Liverpool epitomises these changes coming...off the ball work and pace. Mata has neither.
Great player still, obviously would take him if offered. But to 'use' him correctly you need 9 other players to work around him. Mourinho couldn't be arsed and you don't have 9 players that can do this job.
Edit, obviously you have 2 or 3 but not 9.
Great player still, obviously would take him if offered. But to 'use' him correctly you need 9 other players to work around him. Mourinho couldn't be arsed and you don't have 9 players that can do this job.
Edit, obviously you have 2 or 3 but not 9.
However it might sound, that's my thoughts exactly. It's like a slight pressure makes us go back to simple option- get it wide to safe area.
Anyway, he should be worried about Januzaj taking his place.
Januzaj is our future no.10, thats all I'm going to say.
I'm a fan of Mata's but today he was awful. When the ball goes to the number 10 it needs to stick, he was too easily brushed off the ball. I've seen other teams exploit this in the past.
The future might be closer than I thought.
His play hasnt been very good tbh, since his arrival he hasnt created an awful lot of chances, or playing a big role in attacks, its good that he has scored a few, but I expect a lot more of him.
Obviously. How do we not have 9 hard working players btw? Rooney and Welbeck as forwards are as hardworking as it gets. Herrera seems a proper fighter. Valencia at LWB has always been super hard working. The rest (mostly defence) will obviously work hard. It's not ideal for him to be poor defensively, but it's not like we can't make it work.
He's actually a decent image of what's wrong with us in an attacking sense.
We lack quality players WITH pace.
We've got quality players, and pacy players, but barely any quality players WITH pace. It's why Januzaj stands out so much in our team when he plays.
We lack quality players WITH pace.
We've got quality players, and pacy players, but barely any quality players WITH pace. It's why Januzaj stands out so much in our team when he plays.
To be honest, while Mata's radar was off today, playing with a pure number 10 that can happen.
The thing is though, if the opposition are marking the number 10 out of the game, it should create space for others to play in. However today it either didn't or we didnt use the space properly.
The thing is though, if the opposition are marking the number 10 out of the game, it should create space for others to play in. However today it either didn't or we didnt use the space properly.
Yeah very true. I dont think that's lost on LVG. Thats why we're in a 3-5-2. We can't drop Rooney/RVP/Mata because they're our best players. But you cant play them up front in a 4-3-3 because they'd be too narrow and slow to work.
Indeed. I think even Van Gaal said something along the lines of "people panicked and picked the wrong passes"....we need to overcome this mental crutch and trust our passing. Id rather lose trying something bold...As blasphemous as it is to say, at least some of the blame lies with Fergie for this instinctive back up plan
He was too close to the strikers today. Needs to be operating right in front of Herrera and fletcher as he'll see more of the ball
There is a reason why most No.10s are usually played on the left, that is where having passengers won't hurt the team. He has played wide before at Valencia and Chelsea so why can't he do it here where ne will always have the license to drift ? There is clearly something structurally wrong with our team the way we always play it wide but today we had Herrera and Mata as two thirds of our midfield yet they couldn't influence play in central areas, the tight areas we know they are comfortable in. Why ?
This, I remember us failing to get it off Silva as he tore us to shreds in that 6-1 debacle.
How do we not have 9 hard working players btw? Rooney and Welbeck as forwards are as hardworking as it gets. Herrera seems a proper fighter. Valencia at LWB has always been super hard working. The rest (mostly defence) will obviously work hard. It's not ideal for him to be poor defensively, but it's not like we can't make it work.
Welbeck and Rooney are ideal for him. But you need a few more as most have identified. That forces the team to be built around him which cuts down on flexibility of a team. Probably why Jose wasnt interested. Anyway I think we both are kind of agreeing minus the Jose bit.
I agree with that and it's exactly why mourinho got rid of him, he is a classy player but he lacks pace and strength, so he needs players with those attributes around him, we don't have them. Moyes seemed to sign him without any idea where to play him, maybe he was looking to sell RVP and kagawa.
For me januzaj is the future star of this team, I would play him over Mata or look to bring in another winger and leave out one of Rooney and RVP.
I wouldn't say so. Rooney likes to drop deep and be more involved, leaves his position and ends up taking up Mata's. Van Persie suits him more. Bit bizarre they made Rooney captain too, won't be long before the knives are out after his stupidity gets him sent off when they're under pressure. Utd should be lining up something like:
Code:
Van Persie
Nani - Mata - Januzaj
Herrera - Carrick
Shaw - Jones - Smalling - Rafael
De GeaThey need to improve out wide (Nani's never kicked on since Ronaldo left and Januzaj's nothing more than a good young prospect at the moment) and the defence needs a hell of a lot of work too. Providing they're willing to spend the dosh, they should be going all out for Reus and Di Maria, and word is they're already signing Benatia. Lot of money to spend, but today should have been a big warning to them.
Agree with that. Its bizarre that the two players chosen to be leaders should have been on the bubble from the team.
I think this a lot of the time when Mata plays in the number 10 role. It's not so bad when we play him behind one striker but when we play him behind two, him playing so high is problematic because we effectively have three players up top and it leaves us short elsewhere (particularly in midfield). I think he is our best number 10 but I think Rooney and Kagawa drop and link with the midfield better.
Agreed, noticed this particularly in the 1st half attacking my side. It was almost like a front 3, Rooney and Hernandez seemed to be wide forwards as Mata was that far forward at times.
He has lost form last 3 games now.
Needs to figure out how deep he needs to play. Guess, having Cheech instead of Welbeck is not helping him either.
Needs to figure out how deep he needs to play. Guess, having Cheech instead of Welbeck is not helping him either.
I'm beginning to think the Kagawa fits the 3-5-2 better. Sure it puts Mata in his best position and I'm not saying he plays poorly in it, just Kagawa gets more involved. Maybe it's just a bit of poor form, but even during the pre season I think Kagawa could put an argument that he did more then Mata did despite playing with the second team usually. Mata will always get more goals and assists though, but for games like today I think Kagawa could have made a difference if he came on.
The first goal we conceded was his fault as he was marking Ki throughout the early stages of the move, then bizarrely wandered off while Ki was deep in our half. Totally unacceptable.
I think if Moyes had stayed then RvP would have been off this summer and the plan was to play Mata behind Rooney, of course that didn't happen and now you have to question the logic of letting Moyes spend £37M on putting part of a plan into action when the board must have known there was a good chance he wouldn't be here to complete the transition.
Tough game for Mata, couldn't get going in any way. Shit happens, he will still be great for us.
If moyes stayed I think the plan was to use mata on the wing and Rooney behind Cavani. Don't think he ever intended on using mata as a #10 long term.
You might need to change the right back option. Rafael is probably going to missed a lot of matches.
He likes to drop deep. But that doesn't mean he can't play a world class as a number 9. Look at 2009/2010. Not often saw Rooney drop deeper in that season. You play him as a number 9, he will do the job. Rooney and Welbeck have a very good link up play, Whoever they play with, as long as they play teamwork play and quick tempo, I'm sure it will be great.
He's having the same problems as kagawa. There are no off the ball runners for him to find. Our team is just too static.
The Dutch didn't get Sneijder on the ball much either. It's weird, you'd think the 10 would get some freedom from having 2 strikers demanding attention in front of him, but midfields seem able to clog up the middle and keep the 10 in the 3-5-2 from getting on the ball.
I think this is a good summary of the issue as well. RVP and Rooney are both far from world-class in terms of being great at off the ball runs and their limited dribbling means our only way to break down defenses centrally will be through beautiful link-up play.
We look like Arsenal when they lost Ramsey and Walcott to injuries. Too many great intricate passers and not enough players who just offers runs so there are good passing options and space for the "playmakers".
Considering we have skipped wingers completely all creativity, dribbling and off the ball runs has to come centrally from RVP, Rooney and Mata. I think we are playing away from Rooney and RVP's strengths which is as a pure number 9 with great link-up play and overall abilities and instead we are using them like a Sturridge/Suarez-Robben/RVP-Ronaldo/Rivaldo partnership.
We are basically putting them in a situation where we need individual brilliance from them repeatedly through-out the game and that has always been the opposite of their game. Hopefully I am wrong and Mata, Rooney and RVP passes their way through every defense in the world but it seems really farfetched.
The major problem with Mata is that we don't have the surrounding personnel to get the best from him. At the moment, he looks like a complete vanity purchase. We're no better off with him at the club, but we're £38m lighter; our transfer business last season was absolutely terrible. We need a pacey wide player and I'd say Welbeck needs to be playing up front too. We need to stretch games far more, give Mata some space to operate in and get players making runs that he can aim for.
Being honest though, we could have bought a much more suitable player.
Being honest though, we could have bought a much more suitable player.
Starting to worry about this signing.
I said it when we bought him that we never needed him. He was the 2nd panic buy under Moyes. He's a fantastic player but when we already had Rooney, Januzaj and Kagawa what was the need for Mata? We have been in desperate need for CM's for years and are still yet to address the problem. It's truly pathetic.
He can't play with Rooney. I think we can only carry one of these slow ball players really. We need a Reus/Di Maria or even Welbeck for now in the team WITH Januzaj I think.
However, it seems we will play the name game, and the biggest names will be forced to get it right.
I like Mata, but don't see the point in him and Rooney in an attacking trio. Rooney drops deep and doesn't stretch teams, so him and Mata together is blunt.
However, it seems we will play the name game, and the biggest names will be forced to get it right.
I like Mata, but don't see the point in him and Rooney in an attacking trio. Rooney drops deep and doesn't stretch teams, so him and Mata together is blunt.
@Rozay I think we need to stop blaming other players when the likes of Mata or Kagawa fail to perform. Rooney wasn´t dropping deep yesterday until the second half was well underway. In the first half, both Rooney and Hernandez were tactically disciplined and stayed high up the pitch to give Mata space. If you want to be kind to Mata the ball was not worked into his feet very quickly and so Rooney and Hernandez´s attempts to stretch the play didn´t go anywhere. However, Mata´s movement was also way off. He was drifting about but he wasn´t really turning up in the channel or finding pockets of space where he could play through balls. It was simply the case that Mata had a bad game. We´ve seen him do a lot better in a red shirt and no doubt he will again but yesterday was a poor showing.
Poor game yesterday. I think he has a good case of being our best outfield player since his arrival so I'm not too worried. He's a brilliant player and will definitely improve.
In a few weeks I imagine he'll have scored a few goals, set up a few and everyone will have forgotten about this. Similar to when he had a little dry run under Moyes and then bang he turns up against Newcastle away and spearheads the most aesthetically pleasing performance of the season.
Personnel in general is an issue. LVG is clearly trying to build the team around him but as others say, with Rooney in the side - a player who wants to dictate from the front rather than being the focal point, it becomes a bit of an issue. Mata was definitely a luxury purchase that wasn't entirely necessary but if the other deficiencies are fixed in time he'll do well and people will say the people in power were right to buy him when they did.
He was individually fantastic in a pretty average Chelsea side. Playing behind the likes of Torres and Ba, in front of a declining Lampard, a shit Mikel and Ramires who can be hot and cold. Poor yesterday but I don't think it warrants a "£37m down the drain".
Personnel in general is an issue. LVG is clearly trying to build the team around him but as others say, with Rooney in the side - a player who wants to dictate from the front rather than being the focal point, it becomes a bit of an issue. Mata was definitely a luxury purchase that wasn't entirely necessary but if the other deficiencies are fixed in time he'll do well and people will say the people in power were right to buy him when they did.
He was individually fantastic in a pretty average Chelsea side. Playing behind the likes of Torres and Ba, in front of a declining Lampard, a shit Mikel and Ramires who can be hot and cold. Poor yesterday but I don't think it warrants a "£37m down the drain".
Have said this so often, it has to do with the fact that so many players are suited in the middle right now, thats just damn easy to defend. The players can only pass to the wingbacks, but they are so easily put under pressure, for this system you need the right players, if we had kroos, modric, iniesta, alaba, lahm, Mata would have happy days but since we dont, its just not the right thing to do. Same with Holland, Holland did got far but their play was far from good, you need the right players for this system.
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