Well said. Great post, and I completely agree
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Well said. Great post, and I completely agree
I really don't want to see Mata's exclusion used as a stick to beat Rooney with.
For me, it comes down to van Gaal dropping his mate RVP. Time to see how big his balls really are.
For me, it comes down to van Gaal dropping his mate RVP. Time to see how big his balls really are.
Maybe, but he was still a bit of a liability, especially as the years went on, and yet with exception of his final season, SAF was pretty consistent in finding ways to field him.
I wonder if both Rooney and RVP shouldn't be dropped. I'd love to see Januzaj get a start.
Maybe this is a controversial statement but I think he is our 2nd best player, only beaten by Di Maria. The stick he's getting in the last month is a bit pathetic. he's a phenomenal player and he should be in the team almost every game. Heres hoping he is.
I don't understand why he didn't start.
He didn't do a lot when he came on but it was a difficult situation for him so I understand that. He should be in ahead of RvP next week.
I hope people now see the difference that he makes on the pitch. I doubt we would have been in that situation had he been there from the start.
I disagree! I think you can't go wrong having either Rooney or Mata in the team. We were 3-1 up and threw it away.
It comes down to us being disorganised and not defending well as a team. You can't really put the blame on one player but of course our defenders were poor.
The important thing is that we are scoring goals for fun and eventually that will put the fear into opponents who play us.
Mata is a better passer/retainer of the ball than Rooney, even if you take the excuse of Rooney running a lot/being more physical. Also, we dropped our most inform player to make way for the "captain". So he takes the responsibility. It's all hypothetical right now, but had Mata been there, we would have kept the ball better and maybe avoided this.
It's very easy to say the teams would fear us. Leicester didn't, and going by the looks of it, I doubt even West Ham would.
Also, this:
I believe LVG preferred Rooney over Mata as he knew it would be a difficult away match where our players would need to "put in a shift" defensively. Its my guess that LVG sees Rooney as someone who is more responsible in defending than Mata. Might also have to do with the physical nature of Leicester and having too many midgets in the side might see us lose out on set pieces?
Anyways, I think had we not been struck back so quickly after the 2nd/3rd goals then we probably would have come away with 3 points. Heck, if we hadn't gone into panic mode when it was 3-2 or 3-3 it would have been a different story. Just a disastrous performance but one we are unlikely to repeat again. Its not common that we are that poor when holding onto a lead.
Didn't LvG say that Rooney prefers to be played as AM?
The fazing out begins...
http://www.theguardian.com/football...ter-united-midfield-louis-van-gaal?CMP=twt_gu
Poor Juan, he's a top drawer player but it looks like this may be his second club in a row where he's a square peg in a round hole despite being good enough and playing well enough to not be. Manager preferences may ultimately be killing him in the quicker English style, maybe Italy beckons?
http://www.theguardian.com/football...ter-united-midfield-louis-van-gaal?CMP=twt_gu
Poor Juan, he's a top drawer player but it looks like this may be his second club in a row where he's a square peg in a round hole despite being good enough and playing well enough to not be. Manager preferences may ultimately be killing him in the quicker English style, maybe Italy beckons?
Agree with this, Spain or Italy would be perfect for his style of play.
But it's not that he's struggled here with the 'quicker English style', he could've easily been player of the year in one or two years for Chelsea, it's the same fecking bollocks with 'having to fit Rooney no matter what' again, same shit we've seen under Moyes. Play him as a striker and that's all, #10 should've been Mata or Januzaj's position, we've already got rid of Kagawa. For all my liking as he's my idol, I'm really starting to wonder if it's not Giggsy's job being done here, when he was the manager he dropped Mata too in favour of some garbage in the team.
If we'll drop Mata, we're making two steps backwards, next stop we'll be signing 'strong, physical lads who run a lot', Neville's style.
I've not suggested he struggled, I fully agree with you on POTY stuff and I think he has out performed Rooney since his arrival by a considerable margin. Just for the record, I said manager preferences were the cause.
Agreed on the Rooney comments btw. The undroppable one looks like he may claim another victim who's a better number 10 than he is now, following Shinji.
On reflection, when I was in Paris watching PSG, they played a slower game, if Mata could work well behind Zlatan then that would be an ideal destination too. He'd finally be at a European giant but surely be a star player with a midfield dynamic built around him. Unlikely to see that anywhere else immediately...
Stupid decision to drop him.
Mata is so much better than Rooney.
His PL stats since he joined suggest that it's actually the perfect place for him to play.
Mata although a wonderfully talented player does not do enough defensive work to be considered an elite player. So for me it was a no brainer that Rooney took his place in midfield yesterday. Problem with Rooney is that he is not a playmaker so neither of them are ideal in that role. But Rooney is a much safer bet than Mata in a struggling team.
Agree, he is intelligent in the way he reads the game, positionally always good, grabs goals and assists and his link up play between midfield and the attack is very good. He may not have the pace of others in a similar position but I haven't found this to be of detriment.
There's also the rather obvious point that he is bang in form. 8 goals in his last 9 isn't it?
He's THE link man. Stupid to drop him.
When he hasn't performed it's generally been because he hasn't seen enough of the ball due to the failings of the rest of the team (the players behind him).
He's THE link man. Stupid to drop him.
When he hasn't performed it's generally been because he hasn't seen enough of the ball due to the failings of the rest of the team (the players behind him).
When you have more of the ball, you need less defensive work.
Rooney gave the ball away 12 times yesterday, compare that to Mata misplacing just 1 pass against QPR. That's 12 times we had to change shape, chase the ball and get back to defend.
I prefer prevention over the cure.
Plus the fact that we seemed to lack any kind of control as soon as we let in 2-3. The time when we went 3-1 up was for calming the game, keep possession and pick Leicester off on the counter. We didn't do that, we allowed ourselves to get bullied and countered on and subsequently collapsed.
The fact that he was dropped because of reputation, rather then actual form, is quite saddening.
He does have the knack of being in the right place at the right time, but can you truly think of an outstanding performance from him this season, he pops up with a goal but is pretty average/pedestrian rest of the game. His defensive contribution is also 0, the part of the game we are struggling with at the moment. LVG has been pointing out all season we are not defending as a team, if you watch Chelsea the best defensive unit in the league they defend from top to bottom.
Dropping Mata was hardly the issue yesterday. He wasn't missed going forward that's for sure
It was part of the issue.
Playing three up front with no solidity in midfield was right at the crux of the issue.
Playing three up front with no solidity in midfield was right at the crux of the issue.
Were we struggling defensively because of him playing in the QPR match?
Ball possession for feck's sake, defending is not just throwing last ditch tackles. He was doing top three running alongside Herrera so he was cutting passing lanes and keeping the possession. Rooney's not a better defense contributor just because he throws himself at somebody now and then, just no.
Jose Mourinho knows a thing or two and about football and also felt Mata's defensive contribution is not satisfactory.
I just want us to go back to our powerful, pacey counter attacking style with wingers that we were once famous for. Playing with players like Mata is against that ethos, like you said he's a possession player and would fit in nicely to a team that plays the tiki taka style of play. I don't want that style of play at United tbh, i find it boring and tedious.
It's a worrying sign for him that LvG has said Rooney is undroppable and now says he would rather he didn't play as a striker. Mata may not get many starts if that's the case.
It's fecking criminal that Rooney got to the top of ladder at this club so quickly after last summer. It's not like he has even put in the performances to warrant it. I won't get completely on his back as I did like the way he was bollocking the defenders after the third goal yesterday so there is hope for his reign as captain, but I guess this discussion is for the Rooney thread.
Edit: Actually, looking at the LvG quote again it looks like he was referring to Mata in the CM role and not his #10 position.
It's fecking criminal that Rooney got to the top of ladder at this club so quickly after last summer. It's not like he has even put in the performances to warrant it. I won't get completely on his back as I did like the way he was bollocking the defenders after the third goal yesterday so there is hope for his reign as captain, but I guess this discussion is for the Rooney thread.
Edit: Actually, looking at the LvG quote again it looks like he was referring to Mata in the CM role and not his #10 position.
What's Van Persie's defensive contribution like? Falcao's?
Defence is not all about tackling. You can't just pile players into the team whose main mission is scoring. You need a link man. Rooney is not anywhere near as good as a link man, and the others are out and out strikers. Away from home, you play one of them.
I think LVG is very arrogant and I think it shows in his team selections.
Defence is not all about tackling. You can't just pile players into the team whose main mission is scoring. You need a link man. Rooney is not anywhere near as good as a link man, and the others are out and out strikers. Away from home, you play one of them.
I think LVG is very arrogant and I think it shows in his team selections.
It really wasn't.
Mata will not provide defensive solidity. He didn't do for Chelsea and he won't for us.
Oh yea, because what we've been playing untill now was tiki-taka and we should get back to the 'United's way!' ( we haven't played that for last fecking 5 or 6 years but hey ) Right on then, bring on Ashley and Antonio to the moshpit, let's have fun.
He will in a sense that he is more inclined to work in a unit with the 3 midfielders behind him as opposed to the 2 attackers ahead of him, whereas Rooney's inclination is obviously to work more with the strikers then those behind him, which is one of his big problems when playing in the role.
With Mata in the #10 role, he is part of a clear midfield unit - and we retain the ball a lot better, which means we have to defend a lot less, which is a good thing for us.
I think that's the issue, you can get away with one striker who naturally stays up top, but having 3 players who don't work hard enough, esp in this league won't work.
He'll play the next game, judging on Van Gaal's comments regarding the difficulties of playing 2 pure strikers.
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