Juan Manuel Iturbe - the next Messi?

Porto officially confirmed the signing yesterday. They now own 60% of Iturbe's rights and he will join up with the team in June before heading off to the U20 World Cup. The transfer fee was undisclosed but if Google Translate and A Bola are to be believed the combined value of 60% of Iturbe and 90% of Kelvin Mateus de Oliveira from Paraná (the other player they confirmed) cannot exceed €3m. So Iturbe ≤ (€3m - 0.9*Kelvin)/0.6.

0oCTH.gif


As the price of Kelvin, K, fluctuates from €0 to €3.33m, the price of Iturbe, X, fluctuates from €0 to €5m.

How to segue from the above to my thoughts on Iturbe? I can't think of a good way.

My thought process re: Iturbe has gone through something like a four-stage evolution. The first stage was excitement, on the eve of the Sudamericano U20 when his name and the accompanying 'new Messi' tags started appearing in the papers. The second was disappointment when I actually watched him play. Yes he could dribble but all the other parts of his game needed a lot of work, and I don't think he justified the hype created by people who had almost certainly never actually watched him play. This was the impression I was left with when the tournament ended. The third stage was cautious optimism as a result of watching him in the Copa Libertadores with Cerro Porteño. While many of the same negatives were still present I did think there had been improvements, even in that short space of time.

The fourth stage came about when I watched the Sudamericano U17 a few months after the U20 version. I think that tournament really helped me with perspective in that Iturbe is still only 17 and at the tournament was playing against players 2-3 years older than him. Seeing players of his own age playing at the U17, and seeing their general level, I think has made me see Iturbe in a new light.

He still has his flaws, no doubt. His off the ball movement is casual, his general passing is average and his defensive work rate is practically nonexistent[1]. He has a lot to learn about what it means to play as a team, work as a team and defend as a team.

But what he does have is elite level dribbling[2] and close control relative to his age group. Everything else, all the negatives I mentioned, can be worked on but to already be so far ahead of the curve in a decisive, rare and valuable trait is a huge advantage. He's not the next Messi, but he is an exciting young talent and if he works hard and focuses on improving his overall game he could become a special player. I think he has made a good decision joining Porto and I look forward to following his progress next year. [3][4]

[1] His work rate was a little better in the recent match against Jaguares in which he played at times on the left of a midfield three in a 3-5-2.

[2] As far as his dribbling style he isn't a Messi-type of dribbler, constantly touching the ball, nor is he a Ronaldo/Sanchez-type of stepover merchant. His dribbling is more direct and powerful, like he sees an opening, plays the ball through and charges after it. Despite his small size he is pretty strong and not easy to knock over or off balance. He has quick feet and reacts well to bounces and changes of direction.

[3] I should have mentioned something about his pace and burst of acceleration and ability to control the ball even at high speeds.

[4] Footnotes, talking to myself, a graph and an equation all in one post. I think it's time for me to go to bed.

citizen_cane.gif
 
Porto officially confirmed the signing yesterday. They now own 60% of Iturbe's rights and he will join up with the team in June before heading off to the U20 World Cup. The transfer fee was undisclosed but if Google Translate and A Bola are to be believed the combined value of 60% of Iturbe and 90% of Kelvin Mateus de Oliveira from Paraná (the other player they confirmed) cannot exceed €3m. So Iturbe ≤ (€3m - 0.9*Kelvin)/0.6.

0oCTH.gif


As the price of Kelvin, K, fluctuates from €0 to €3.33m, the price of Iturbe, X, fluctuates from €0 to €5m.

How to segue from the above to my thoughts on Iturbe? I can't think of a good way.

My thought process re: Iturbe has gone through something like a four-stage evolution. The first stage was excitement, on the eve of the Sudamericano U20 when his name and the accompanying 'new Messi' tags started appearing in the papers. The second was disappointment when I actually watched him play. Yes he could dribble but all the other parts of his game needed a lot of work, and I don't think he justified the hype created by people who had almost certainly never actually watched him play. This was the impression I was left with when the tournament ended. The third stage was cautious optimism as a result of watching him in the Copa Libertadores with Cerro Porteño. While many of the same negatives were still present I did think there had been improvements, even in that short space of time.

The fourth stage came about when I watched the Sudamericano U17 a few months after the U20 version. I think that tournament really helped me with perspective in that Iturbe is still only 17 and at the tournament was playing against players 2-3 years older than him. Seeing players of his own age playing at the U17, and seeing their general level, I think has made me see Iturbe in a new light.

He still has his flaws, no doubt. His off the ball movement is casual, his general passing is average and his defensive work rate is practically nonexistent[1]. He has a lot to learn about what it means to play as a team, work as a team and defend as a team.

But what he does have is elite level dribbling[2] and close control relative to his age group. Everything else, all the negatives I mentioned, can be worked on but to already be so far ahead of the curve in a decisive, rare and valuable trait is a huge advantage. He's not the next Messi, but he is an exciting young talent and if he works hard and focuses on improving his overall game he could become a special player. I think he has made a good decision joining Porto and I look forward to following his progress next year. [3][4]

[1] His work rate was a little better in the recent match against Jaguares in which he played at times on the left of a midfield three in a 3-5-2.

[2] As far as his dribbling style he isn't a Messi-type of dribbler, constantly touching the ball, nor is he a Ronaldo/Sanchez-type of stepover merchant. His dribbling is more direct and powerful, like he sees an opening, plays the ball through and charges after it. Despite his small size he is pretty strong and not easy to knock over or off balance. He has quick feet and reacts well to bounces and changes of direction.

[3] I should have mentioned something about his pace and burst of acceleration and ability to control the ball even at high speeds.

[4] Footnotes, talking to myself, a graph and an equation all in one post. I think it's time for me to go to bed.

Jesus wept.
 
Is that a serious post?

Yes it is from what i read. The graph is actually accurate in the sense he showcases that Iturbe could have been valued from o to 3 million and with every step of increase in Iturbe's value Kelvin's value goes down since the total is 3 million. You already knew that didn't you? :smirk:

I like that poster, he's quite detailed and yet at the same lucid in his reports. Who ever promoted him, a job well done.
 
Porto officially confirmed the signing yesterday. They now own 60% of Iturbe's rights and he will join up with the team in June before heading off to the U20 World Cup. The transfer fee was undisclosed but if Google Translate and A Bola are to be believed the combined value of 60% of Iturbe and 90% of Kelvin Mateus de Oliveira from Paraná (the other player they confirmed) cannot exceed €3m. So Iturbe ≤ (€3m - 0.9*Kelvin)/0.6.

0oCTH.gif


As the price of Kelvin, K, fluctuates from €0 to €3.33m, the price of Iturbe, X, fluctuates from €0 to €5m.

How to segue from the above to my thoughts on Iturbe? I can't think of a good way.

My thought process re: Iturbe has gone through something like a four-stage evolution. The first stage was excitement, on the eve of the Sudamericano U20 when his name and the accompanying 'new Messi' tags started appearing in the papers. The second was disappointment when I actually watched him play. Yes he could dribble but all the other parts of his game needed a lot of work, and I don't think he justified the hype created by people who had almost certainly never actually watched him play. This was the impression I was left with when the tournament ended. The third stage was cautious optimism as a result of watching him in the Copa Libertadores with Cerro Porteño. While many of the same negatives were still present I did think there had been improvements, even in that short space of time.

The fourth stage came about when I watched the Sudamericano U17 a few months after the U20 version. I think that tournament really helped me with perspective in that Iturbe is still only 17 and at the tournament was playing against players 2-3 years older than him. Seeing players of his own age playing at the U17, and seeing their general level, I think has made me see Iturbe in a new light.

He still has his flaws, no doubt. His off the ball movement is casual, his general passing is average and his defensive work rate is practically nonexistent[1]. He has a lot to learn about what it means to play as a team, work as a team and defend as a team.

But what he does have is elite level dribbling[2] and close control relative to his age group. Everything else, all the negatives I mentioned, can be worked on but to already be so far ahead of the curve in a decisive, rare and valuable trait is a huge advantage. He's not the next Messi, but he is an exciting young talent and if he works hard and focuses on improving his overall game he could become a special player. I think he has made a good decision joining Porto and I look forward to following his progress next year. [3][4]

[1] His work rate was a little better in the recent match against Jaguares in which he played at times on the left of a midfield three in a 3-5-2.

[2] As far as his dribbling style he isn't a Messi-type of dribbler, constantly touching the ball, nor is he a Ronaldo/Sanchez-type of stepover merchant. His dribbling is more direct and powerful, like he sees an opening, plays the ball through and charges after it. Despite his small size he is pretty strong and not easy to knock over or off balance. He has quick feet and reacts well to bounces and changes of direction.

[3] I should have mentioned something about his pace and burst of acceleration and ability to control the ball even at high speeds.

[4] Footnotes, talking to myself, a graph and an equation all in one post. I think it's time for me to go to bed.
The chief falls prostrate in homage:cool:
 
Porto officially confirmed the signing yesterday. They now own 60% of Iturbe's rights and he will join up with the team in June before heading off to the U20 World Cup. The transfer fee was undisclosed but if Google Translate and A Bola are to be believed the combined value of 60% of Iturbe and 90% of Kelvin Mateus de Oliveira from Paraná (the other player they confirmed) cannot exceed €3m. So Iturbe ≤ (€3m - 0.9*Kelvin)/0.6.

0oCTH.gif


As the price of Kelvin, K, fluctuates from €0 to €3.33m, the price of Iturbe, X, fluctuates from €0 to €5m.

How to segue from the above to my thoughts on Iturbe? I can't think of a good way.

My thought process re: Iturbe has gone through something like a four-stage evolution. The first stage was excitement, on the eve of the Sudamericano U20 when his name and the accompanying 'new Messi' tags started appearing in the papers. The second was disappointment when I actually watched him play. Yes he could dribble but all the other parts of his game needed a lot of work, and I don't think he justified the hype created by people who had almost certainly never actually watched him play. This was the impression I was left with when the tournament ended. The third stage was cautious optimism as a result of watching him in the Copa Libertadores with Cerro Porteño. While many of the same negatives were still present I did think there had been improvements, even in that short space of time.

The fourth stage came about when I watched the Sudamericano U17 a few months after the U20 version. I think that tournament really helped me with perspective in that Iturbe is still only 17 and at the tournament was playing against players 2-3 years older than him. Seeing players of his own age playing at the U17, and seeing their general level, I think has made me see Iturbe in a new light.

He still has his flaws, no doubt. His off the ball movement is casual, his general passing is average and his defensive work rate is practically nonexistent[1]. He has a lot to learn about what it means to play as a team, work as a team and defend as a team.

But what he does have is elite level dribbling[2] and close control relative to his age group. Everything else, all the negatives I mentioned, can be worked on but to already be so far ahead of the curve in a decisive, rare and valuable trait is a huge advantage. He's not the next Messi, but he is an exciting young talent and if he works hard and focuses on improving his overall game he could become a special player. I think he has made a good decision joining Porto and I look forward to following his progress next year. [3][4]

[1] His work rate was a little better in the recent match against Jaguares in which he played at times on the left of a midfield three in a 3-5-2.

[2] As far as his dribbling style he isn't a Messi-type of dribbler, constantly touching the ball, nor is he a Ronaldo/Sanchez-type of stepover merchant. His dribbling is more direct and powerful, like he sees an opening, plays the ball through and charges after it. Despite his small size he is pretty strong and not easy to knock over or off balance. He has quick feet and reacts well to bounces and changes of direction.

[3] I should have mentioned something about his pace and burst of acceleration and ability to control the ball even at high speeds.

[4] Footnotes, talking to myself, a graph and an equation all in one post. I think it's time for me to go to bed.
tCp90.gif
 
Porto officially confirmed the signing yesterday. They now own 60% of Iturbe's rights and he will join up with the team in June before heading off to the U20 World Cup. The transfer fee was undisclosed but if Google Translate and A Bola are to be believed the combined value of 60% of Iturbe and 90% of Kelvin Mateus de Oliveira from Paraná (the other player they confirmed) cannot exceed €3m. So Iturbe ≤ (€3m - 0.9*Kelvin)/0.6.

0oCTH.gif


As the price of Kelvin, K, fluctuates from €0 to €3.33m, the price of Iturbe, X, fluctuates from €0 to €5m.

How to segue from the above to my thoughts on Iturbe? I can't think of a good way.

My thought process re: Iturbe has gone through something like a four-stage evolution. The first stage was excitement, on the eve of the Sudamericano U20 when his name and the accompanying 'new Messi' tags started appearing in the papers. The second was disappointment when I actually watched him play. Yes he could dribble but all the other parts of his game needed a lot of work, and I don't think he justified the hype created by people who had almost certainly never actually watched him play. This was the impression I was left with when the tournament ended. The third stage was cautious optimism as a result of watching him in the Copa Libertadores with Cerro Porteño. While many of the same negatives were still present I did think there had been improvements, even in that short space of time.

The fourth stage came about when I watched the Sudamericano U17 a few months after the U20 version. I think that tournament really helped me with perspective in that Iturbe is still only 17 and at the tournament was playing against players 2-3 years older than him. Seeing players of his own age playing at the U17, and seeing their general level, I think has made me see Iturbe in a new light.

He still has his flaws, no doubt. His off the ball movement is casual, his general passing is average and his defensive work rate is practically nonexistent[1]. He has a lot to learn about what it means to play as a team, work as a team and defend as a team.

But what he does have is elite level dribbling[2] and close control relative to his age group. Everything else, all the negatives I mentioned, can be worked on but to already be so far ahead of the curve in a decisive, rare and valuable trait is a huge advantage. He's not the next Messi, but he is an exciting young talent and if he works hard and focuses on improving his overall game he could become a special player. I think he has made a good decision joining Porto and I look forward to following his progress next year. [3][4]

[1] His work rate was a little better in the recent match against Jaguares in which he played at times on the left of a midfield three in a 3-5-2.

[2] As far as his dribbling style he isn't a Messi-type of dribbler, constantly touching the ball, nor is he a Ronaldo/Sanchez-type of stepover merchant. His dribbling is more direct and powerful, like he sees an opening, plays the ball through and charges after it. Despite his small size he is pretty strong and not easy to knock over or off balance. He has quick feet and reacts well to bounces and changes of direction.

[3] I should have mentioned something about his pace and burst of acceleration and ability to control the ball even at high speeds.

[4] Footnotes, talking to myself, a graph and an equation all in one post. I think it's time for me to go to bed.

:lol: you're feckin nuts, I like it.
 
Something which has been obvious in his U20 WC appearances is that he has started taking a lot of shots from outside the box (with both feet) that he wasn't taking 3-6 months ago. Whether that's a directive from the coach or whether it's a new side to his game I don't know. Personally I would like to see him look to pass it more since that's one area of his game that really needs improvement.
 
He nearly scored a great goal last night.



Sums up his tournament so far really. In every match he has been this close to doing something magnificent but he has just lacked that last little something to finish it off.

The clip also sums up his attitude pretty well. No matter where he is on the pitch, as soon as he gets the ball it's full speed ahead straight at the opposition goal.
 
Hilarious how all his teammates slow down and just jog along once he gets the ball; they just know they're not going to get it back.
 
Wow this kid looks amazing on that clip, but then again so does everyone on Youtube!
 
Can't wait for his first official club match. Never been this excited with a young one since Anderson signed for us.
 
What I cant understand is how come we never go for talents such as this and end up with Bebe and Diouf etc.:rolleyes:

Thats the mystery with Fergie, always has been, never goes for the top stars when they are young with the odd exception. Always remember the talk about Cantona recommending Zidane to Fergie when he was still at Bordeaux. I dont see the point in having south american scouts if the likes of this kid arent considered as worthy of buying.
 
Thats the mystery with Fergie, always has been, never goes for the top stars when they are young with the odd exception. Always remember the talk about Cantona recommending Zidane to Fergie when he was still at Bordeaux. I dont see the point in having south american scouts if the likes of this kid arent considered as worthy of buying.

He was linked with Bolton yesterday. So, not doing too well at porto I would imagine.

:lol:

That's why we have scouts, then.
 
:lol:

That's why we have scouts, then.

yeah but doesnt make up for missing out on the likes of Zidane, or Messi or anyone at that level. He developed Ronaldo into the second best player in the world fair enough, but look at all that great talent a club with our stature should be after when they are young and more importantly cheaper!
 
Have to say I didn't see all that from Iturbe in the couple of u20 games I saw of him...

...

[Iturbe has] been playing for Porto B and even there he´s not capable of making a decent match.
We are starting to be afraid he may be a flop, we were going to start playing him on the team this season but he failed to perform every time he was given the chance. He´s still very young but the club is apprehensive about him.

Being linked with Bolton and struggling for Porto B doesn't sound great. Any particular reasons for why he's struggled so far, Arruda?
 


I'm not ready to give up on him yet. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, he definitely has (or at least had, a year ago) a lot of vital areas where he has to improve, but to already be so far ahead of the curve in his running-with-the-ball skills means he will always have a chance of becoming a special player.
 
I'm not really sure Brwned, I've seen very little of him, as he's played very few times. Our manager doesn't like him, for whatever reason. And among the many reasons I hate our manager is the hypothesis that he'll waste Iturbe without giving him a chance. He's a dumb one, last season the first time he called the kid in months was to play the last five minutes against Benfica (!) when we were losing. That, when he doesn't start him on cup or league cup games. He was behind awful players in the pecking order (like Djalma) and I can't possibly believe him to be worse than them.

He has been benched most of the games this season (a promotion relatively to last year) but rarely enters and when he does play he doesn't do nothing of note. Seems to be in a perpetual haste to do something but it never comes off. But I think it's been harsh for him, none of our young talents has been given so little chances or phased in in such an erratic manner. I still have hopes for him, he seems talented, even if in practical terms it has amounted to nothing so far, other than a pretty pre-season goal.

He hasn't played for Porto B lately, players can't be called for both teams in the same weekend and he's usually on Porto's bench. Porto B is awful anyway, fighting against relegation. At the moment he's our 4th choice winger, behind James, Varela, Atsu and ahead of Kelvin. I still maintain there's a good deal of manager stubbornness here. It's obvious Iturbe isn't ready, but his confidence isn't being managed properly. Varela and Atsu have been through such awful periods at the beginning of the season that it was very strange that Iturbe didn't got more chances.

Anyway, his pre-season goal, if you haven't seen. Not that it helped him to be taken more seriously.



Stylish, but nothing like Messi, his ball control seems a bit clumsy if anything.
 
http://www.football-italia.net/47925/bidding-war-iturbe?

Juan Iturbe looks set to be the subject of a bidding war this summer, according to reports in the Italian Press.

The Verona playmaker looks likely to sign permanently for the Gialloblu at the end of the season, with parent-club Porto set to accept €15m for the 20-year-old.

However, respected Sky journalist Gianluca Di Marzio has revealed on his official website that Roma, Real Madrid, Manchester United and Paris Saint-Germain are all keen on the youngster.

Rudi Garcia’s men have been in pole position for a while now with sporting director Walter Sabatini thought to be in negotiations.

However, Verona backroom member Sean Sogliano was apparently in Madrid over the weekend to discuss Iturbe with Los Blancos.

Andrea Mandorlini’s outfit are thought to want between €22m-€25m for the trequartista.
 
How good is this kid? I heard a lot of hype about him last year but haven't followed his progress this year. Surely at 20 he should be playing every week at Porto not out on loan?
 
Excellent today, a live wire on the ball. Nice assist for the 2nd goal
 
How good is this kid? I heard a lot of hype about him last year but haven't followed his progress this year. Surely at 20 he should be playing every week at Porto not out on loan?
He's out on loan for football unrelated reasons. Not his fault either, agent problems and such.
 
So, 8 goals and 4 assists for an overachieving Verona side this season. Wonder where his future lies after his loan spell? He has been linked with Madrid and Liverpool so far. The Madrid link does seem far fetched, though.

I don't watch a massive amount of Serie A, so I haven't seen much of him for Verona at all. Has anyone paid much attention to him? Is he playing behind the striker or out wide?