United + Argentinians = 
Juan Manuel Iturbe - the next Messi?
- Thread starter RDCR07
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
i-Turbe
So the deal is somewhat similar to the one we had with Ljajic if it is actually true?
Have you seen much of him Chief?
Personally I wouldn't care if he reached Carroll's price in a year. He'd be a worthy signing if he settled down in Europe.
Have you seen much of him Chief?
This deal just doesn't make any sense to me - i don't get why we would allow porto to get him so cheap, and do a deal to sign him at a significantly higher price a season or two later. Why not sign him now, and loan him out - same basic idea but a lot cheaper.
If this kid does turn out to be great, and settles in Europe, I can see this deal being spoken about a lot, with phrases such as 'Apparently we have a deal....' being used a lot until it turns out there is no deal and he signs for someone else.
If this kid does turn out to be great, and settles in Europe, I can see this deal being spoken about a lot, with phrases such as 'Apparently we have a deal....' being used a lot until it turns out there is no deal and he signs for someone else.
I've seen a few games of his. The lad is an intelligent dribbling wizard with superb composure for his age. Plus he seems level headed. He could be moulded into anything under the right coaching. I'm real pleased we keep being linked to him. Though I don't know how true the links are.
I don't think sources say the deal is done unless it is true. I mean they link us with a lot of players all the time but I don't think they lie about deals that are done.
How's about we sign a fecking 24 years old, power house, midfielder instead. Had too many "next big things"
Quite specific, anyone in mind?
Not as good at the next Ronaldo.
Me. When fit.
We've got the next Messi* and his name is Suso**
Look out for him requesting a transfer in a transfer window near you soon!
*ish
** Nothing like Messi
Look out for him requesting a transfer in a transfer window near you soon!
*ish
** Nothing like Messi
Are you talking about Moussa Sissoko or Mahamadou Sakho?
Or did you just spell 'sushi' wrong?
No point in buying Messi. He will be 25 years old next year from which he will be 26 the following, so the sell on value wouldn't be much for a Messi turning 30 within 4 years from that time.
And €10m is a bit steep.
And €10m is a bit steep.
This is our new tactic, we buy unknown players who has been recently bought to another club and has never played for it for 10x the amount they paid for him!
Sounds promising Chief, he looks to have that low center of gravity that will make him hard to knock off the ball.
Manchester United Join Chase For Argentina Starlet Juan Iturbe - Report - Goal.com
This would make more sense than the other articles.
This would make more sense than the other articles.
yummy
he is fast and has excellent ball control....er he can score too.
hope this is true.
hope this is true.
Erm, our solid partnership with Porto is based on what exactly? We've signed one player from them, sold them no one, loaned them no one.
We sold Ronaldo so that he wouldn't score against them again for us and couldn't upset their fans again!!!
Fair deal - or at least better than the Bebe one
It's all about the agent
I think our excellent relationship with Jorge Mendes will play a big role IF this deal goes through. However, I think all this is media bollocks, they're basing it on People's report.
BBC - Tim Vickery: Debutants in the Libertadores spotlight
I was reading this Tim Vickery article on the Copa Libertadores and came across the familiar name of Iturbe, seems a very talented player. I wonder if there is actually any substance to the rumours of us doing a deal for him.
According to his wiki profile the player confirmed he was moving to Porto in June
........`In January 2011 Iturbe confirmed he was signing with Portuguese giants Porto, he will join the team when he turns 18`
I am sure Fergie made an effort to get him but it seems like this secret deal with had with Porto to take him a couple of seasons later was all absolute bollox of course!
........`In January 2011 Iturbe confirmed he was signing with Portuguese giants Porto, he will join the team when he turns 18`
I am sure Fergie made an effort to get him but it seems like this secret deal with had with Porto to take him a couple of seasons later was all absolute bollox of course!
That made a good read.. Here are the goals from that game
He's the new Ryo Miyaichi.
Stopped reading at "the next.."
Has somebody ever turned into "the next X" having been dubbed that once?
Maybe Messi when he was dubbed the next Maradonna. But i suppose that was never in doubt.
My brother raves about him. Thinks he's gonna be a star.
Yeah, he's been awesome for Feyenoord in the few games he's played so far. Got a standing ovation, Japanese flags, songs and the crowd bowing to him in only his second game (he scored a good goal). I take it your brother's a Gooner?
Not that I'm likening him to Ronaldo, but he's a fast as feck winger with a Ronaldo like build. He seems to have a few nice tricks, a cracking shot and cuts inside a lot... He's one all the Gooners are raving about on the hush.
In the game the other day (against Ado Den Haag) after half-time he was targeted something pretty bad physically. One player even gave him a quality hip-and-shoulder that would put most AFL players to shame.
In short, the boy looks the goods!
and a scout report, albeit from an Arsenal site: Miyaichi v Heracles: Scouting Report & Video | Young Guns || Arsenal Youth Development News & Analysis
My brother who is a gooner was going on about him when he was signed up. He was being dubbed the Japenese Ronaldo back in his homeland. Looks a great prospect and still only 18, I may be wrong but I heard there was work permit issues with him?
Yeah he is a gooner and sends me videos of him all the time. Reckons he might be with the first team next season?
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And 17-year-old sensation Juan Manuel Iturbe - known as "the Paraguayan Messi" because he grew up there - is picking up senior experience with Cerro Porteno and coming on fast. Facing this calibre of opponent should be a fantastic learning opportunity for the England Under-20 team.The above is from the Tim Vickery column on the BBC site, interesting stuff.
BBC - Tim Vickery: England could learn lessons from Colombia's Cup
Have to say I didn't see all that from Iturbe in the couple of u20 games I saw of him and he's not even first choice for Cerro Porteno - I was looking forward to seeing him v Santos but he was on the bench, as he regularly is.
Porto officially confirmed the signing yesterday. They now own 60% of Iturbe's rights and he will join up with the team in June before heading off to the U20 World Cup. The transfer fee was undisclosed but if Google Translate and A Bola are to be believed the combined value of 60% of Iturbe and 90% of Kelvin Mateus de Oliveira from Paraná (the other player they confirmed) cannot exceed €3m. So Iturbe ≤ (€3m - 0.9*Kelvin)/0.6.
As the price of Kelvin, K, fluctuates from €0 to €3.33m, the price of Iturbe, X, fluctuates from €0 to €5m.
How to segue from the above to my thoughts on Iturbe? I can't think of a good way.
My thought process re: Iturbe has gone through something like a four-stage evolution. The first stage was excitement, on the eve of the Sudamericano U20 when his name and the accompanying 'new Messi' tags started appearing in the papers. The second was disappointment when I actually watched him play. Yes he could dribble but all the other parts of his game needed a lot of work, and I don't think he justified the hype created by people who had almost certainly never actually watched him play. This was the impression I was left with when the tournament ended. The third stage was cautious optimism as a result of watching him in the Copa Libertadores with Cerro Porteño. While many of the same negatives were still present I did think there had been improvements, even in that short space of time.
The fourth stage came about when I watched the Sudamericano U17 a few months after the U20 version. I think that tournament really helped me with perspective in that Iturbe is still only 17 and at the tournament was playing against players 2-3 years older than him. Seeing players of his own age playing at the U17, and seeing their general level, I think has made me see Iturbe in a new light.
He still has his flaws, no doubt. His off the ball movement is casual, his general passing is average and his defensive work rate is practically nonexistent[1]. He has a lot to learn about what it means to play as a team, work as a team and defend as a team.
But what he does have is elite level dribbling[2] and close control relative to his age group. Everything else, all the negatives I mentioned, can be worked on but to already be so far ahead of the curve in a decisive, rare and valuable trait is a huge advantage. He's not the next Messi, but he is an exciting young talent and if he works hard and focuses on improving his overall game he could become a special player. I think he has made a good decision joining Porto and I look forward to following his progress next year. [3][4]
[1] His work rate was a little better in the recent match against Jaguares in which he played at times on the left of a midfield three in a 3-5-2.
[2] As far as his dribbling style he isn't a Messi-type of dribbler, constantly touching the ball, nor is he a Ronaldo/Sanchez-type of stepover merchant. His dribbling is more direct and powerful, like he sees an opening, plays the ball through and charges after it. Despite his small size he is pretty strong and not easy to knock over or off balance. He has quick feet and reacts well to bounces and changes of direction.
[3] I should have mentioned something about his pace and burst of acceleration and ability to control the ball even at high speeds.
[4] Footnotes, talking to myself, a graph and an equation all in one post. I think it's time for me to go to bed.
As the price of Kelvin, K, fluctuates from €0 to €3.33m, the price of Iturbe, X, fluctuates from €0 to €5m.
How to segue from the above to my thoughts on Iturbe? I can't think of a good way.
My thought process re: Iturbe has gone through something like a four-stage evolution. The first stage was excitement, on the eve of the Sudamericano U20 when his name and the accompanying 'new Messi' tags started appearing in the papers. The second was disappointment when I actually watched him play. Yes he could dribble but all the other parts of his game needed a lot of work, and I don't think he justified the hype created by people who had almost certainly never actually watched him play. This was the impression I was left with when the tournament ended. The third stage was cautious optimism as a result of watching him in the Copa Libertadores with Cerro Porteño. While many of the same negatives were still present I did think there had been improvements, even in that short space of time.
The fourth stage came about when I watched the Sudamericano U17 a few months after the U20 version. I think that tournament really helped me with perspective in that Iturbe is still only 17 and at the tournament was playing against players 2-3 years older than him. Seeing players of his own age playing at the U17, and seeing their general level, I think has made me see Iturbe in a new light.
He still has his flaws, no doubt. His off the ball movement is casual, his general passing is average and his defensive work rate is practically nonexistent[1]. He has a lot to learn about what it means to play as a team, work as a team and defend as a team.
But what he does have is elite level dribbling[2] and close control relative to his age group. Everything else, all the negatives I mentioned, can be worked on but to already be so far ahead of the curve in a decisive, rare and valuable trait is a huge advantage. He's not the next Messi, but he is an exciting young talent and if he works hard and focuses on improving his overall game he could become a special player. I think he has made a good decision joining Porto and I look forward to following his progress next year. [3][4]
[1] His work rate was a little better in the recent match against Jaguares in which he played at times on the left of a midfield three in a 3-5-2.
[2] As far as his dribbling style he isn't a Messi-type of dribbler, constantly touching the ball, nor is he a Ronaldo/Sanchez-type of stepover merchant. His dribbling is more direct and powerful, like he sees an opening, plays the ball through and charges after it. Despite his small size he is pretty strong and not easy to knock over or off balance. He has quick feet and reacts well to bounces and changes of direction.
[3] I should have mentioned something about his pace and burst of acceleration and ability to control the ball even at high speeds.
[4] Footnotes, talking to myself, a graph and an equation all in one post. I think it's time for me to go to bed.