Posting without comment:
https://breakingthelines.com/player-analysis/joshua-zirkzee-the-man-who-plays-in-reverse/
https://breakingthelines.com/player-analysis/joshua-zirkzee-the-man-who-plays-in-reverse/
11
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 47
- Goals
- 7
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 2
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Ashwin @AR87 are here to discuss two "on-paper" not great results for United over the last week, but are there positive signs of progress despite what the ex-United pundits are saying?
They also preview the big game Europa League game against Lyon.
Thanks. Massive word salad. So could only skim it.
The penultimate paragraph made me laugh:
“And this is his great illusion: to seem idle, even indifferent, while the world around him spirals into chaos. He walks, yet the defenders run. He waits, yet they panic. He does not force his way into football’s history; he invites it, as if it were always meant to come to him.”
Would be fine with all of that, if there was any consequence to his play - a goal, chances created, making teammates better. But there is close to zero output from him. All fart, no… some might say.
Ultimately, we can't have someone in our front 3 on 45 appearances and 6 goals.
Zirkzee has some things he's good at, but we can't carry that upfront.
Zirkzee has some things he's good at, but we can't carry that upfront.
I just had the vision of a beautiful long @LuckyScout78 post appearing on this pretentious website, with slick layout and the photos and all, but without any proofreading or text formatting. That would be gorgeous.
Agreed.
He's a deep lying play maker playing at number 9. It's bizarre, some times the way he controls the ball and keeps calm and his feints and touches remind me of Berba (with none of the end product) but never in the world is he an attacker. He's a guy who starts or links the play.
I like Zirkzee alot and he is enjoyable to watch.
Amorim is just too one dimensional with his tactics to be able to use false 9's like Zirkzee or inside forwards like Garnacho.
This can be seen even with Bruno Fernandes. Bruno looks horrible when played as one of the wide attacking midfielders but looks better as a CM.
This is because Amorim deems his tactics unchangeable and yet will change the players role within these tactics.
This is why Zirkzee has played as a CAM because its the closest role Amorim can use a False 9.
Zirkzee has improved his work rate and speed. The only thing I'm worried about is how he looses stamina about 60 mins in to a game.
He can't be the focal point to score goals however he can be the focal point to interlink play. I think in the first half we looked brilliant and quick because of Zirkzee's interlinking ability bur ultimately it came to nothing because we didn't have anyone clinical enough to take those chances.
I wouldn't sell Zirkzee just yet and keep him as a squad player because I'm not sure we should be selling players that don't fit Amorim's system when Amorim may not be here this time next year.
Amorim is just too one dimensional with his tactics to be able to use false 9's like Zirkzee or inside forwards like Garnacho.
This can be seen even with Bruno Fernandes. Bruno looks horrible when played as one of the wide attacking midfielders but looks better as a CM.
This is because Amorim deems his tactics unchangeable and yet will change the players role within these tactics.
This is why Zirkzee has played as a CAM because its the closest role Amorim can use a False 9.
Zirkzee has improved his work rate and speed. The only thing I'm worried about is how he looses stamina about 60 mins in to a game.
He can't be the focal point to score goals however he can be the focal point to interlink play. I think in the first half we looked brilliant and quick because of Zirkzee's interlinking ability bur ultimately it came to nothing because we didn't have anyone clinical enough to take those chances.
I wouldn't sell Zirkzee just yet and keep him as a squad player because I'm not sure we should be selling players that don't fit Amorim's system when Amorim may not be here this time next year.
Worst thing is, we have two of them! Between him and Hojlund we have 84 appearances, 14 goals - shocking.
Only 6 of the goals are in the PL to make it more shocking.
To be honest, I'm not sure what anyone was expecting. Their goalscoring history speaks for itself so the decision to bring them as our main strikers was always a shocker to anyone without blind hope. I guess Zirkzee was YPOTY so there is something but it seems that, like that Hojlund lookalike guy sings, we were hoping for a miracle.
So you think we should keep Zirkzee as a squad player in case Amorim isn't around this time next year, at which point a hypothetical next manager may build his tactics around Zirkzee's strengths ?
Agreed. He's been here for most of one season during which we've had a pretty good sample size to see what he brings to the table. He's neither a 9 or a 10 and appears little more than a younger, more nimble version of Weghorst - both pointless ETH projects.
I agree re. bolded. I just don’t think he’s that half second quick enough. In mind or feet.
Feel like the “he’s more of a no.10” stuff is unfounded — he’s not particularly creative or a good passer. He just has a nice touch and there’s a pervading assumption that means he’s better in slightly deeper areas because he’s not penetrative upfront.
Zirkzee is clearly a player who relies on understanding and being understood by his teammates. He is the opposite to the likes of Garnacho who is inherently quite selfish and therefore looks good in a dysfunctional team - because he is happy to just go it himself.
I am relatively convinced that if you put Zirkzee into a well drilled system, with players that he synergies well with, he has the potentially to be excellent. Not 30-goals or world class, but a really effective contributor. I see him like a Firmino.
Right now, players are still mastering Amorims system, we have a lot of injuries and a lot of areas where we need to strengthen. For a player like Zirkzee who relies on intricate linkup play and one touch football, this is a bigger issue than it is to a lot of other players.
I am relatively convinced that if you put Zirkzee into a well drilled system, with players that he synergies well with, he has the potentially to be excellent. Not 30-goals or world class, but a really effective contributor. I see him like a Firmino.
Right now, players are still mastering Amorims system, we have a lot of injuries and a lot of areas where we need to strengthen. For a player like Zirkzee who relies on intricate linkup play and one touch football, this is a bigger issue than it is to a lot of other players.
I just can't quite fathom how he hasn't scored in the league since the 1st of December, despite actually playing okay since then. Like I swear I've regularly appreciated bits of his play in the middle of the park in recent months, and can't really think of him missing any sitters or looking clueless in front of goal. It's just he's a tidy footballer who is completely anonymous in the final third.
With United all of the front 3 are not good enough (currently) but United can't change them all in one summer, so it's a case of who out of the 3 deserves another season?
Zirkzee being in his 1st season does give him some more time.
Hojlund sadly is the one who has run out of time, with Garnacho not too far behind.
Zirkzee being in his 1st season does give him some more time.
Hojlund sadly is the one who has run out of time, with Garnacho not too far behind.
Zirkzee should be ahead of a player who is only in his 3rd season in senior football and his first as a starter if you are looking at players to offload.
Hes a CF who is in his 6th season in senior football and we still don’t even know what he is. Well I guess because we know he isn’t a goalscorer and thus not a CF. He reads like a failed player to me. Hes not a 9 and hes not. 10 either because he isn’t even actually that creative.
With a player like Garnacho decision making and being clinical (which are common issues for a player at his stage of development) are things you can improve on. I don’t see much of what can be improved with Zirkzee if I am being honest, accept maybe he plays in a slower and less physical league.
Man Utd 0:0 Man City
New
Thought that was another solid cameo to be honest. Certainly made life quite difficult for City's defence at the end and forced a good save out of Ederson.
If we're going to sell a striker this summer, I'd offload Hojlund way before Zirkzee.
If we're going to sell a striker this summer, I'd offload Hojlund way before Zirkzee.
He was good today but he is a midfielder not a forward.
He was good and played more aggressively which unsettled the defence a bit. Definitely seems good enough to have a place in the squad next season at least.
So much better than Hojlund.
A proper player, defo a really good one for the squad.
Deserves another season but likely coming off the bench.
I've a feeling he's destined to get the winner in the europa final if we get there
I've a feeling he's destined to get the winner in the europa final if we get there
Maybe that wasn't the reason but we got better as he came on. I really like Zirkzee as a player even if he may not be suited for PL.
I like this guy. I like his attitude and he’s got a lot in his locker. He’s not the answer to our goal scoring problems, but he offers something different. He’s unpredictable and mostly in a good way.
Impressive sub appearance. Wonder if he'll start against Lyon?
He’s a lot fitter and faster than when he arrived. Fair play to him on that
Put him in the Joelinton role
This.
He'd be twice the player.
He has to be ahead of Hojlund.
I'd say it is more likely that he is neither of those than he'd be a midfielder. Wonder if he ends up as some sort of Havertz but to me, he seems to develop into a player that isn't easy to integrate into a system. Our system right now needs a striker that keeps the defenders occupied to create space for the 10s. JZ isn't doing that. He is handy on the ball, no doubt about that and he has good strength which make him a useful player for us since our squad is lacking in both. But I'd say he doesn't seem destined for great things.
He lacks the intensity of Joelinton. That guy is running through people and while JZ has good physicality, I'd say he is still at least a level behind Joelinton.
I was thinking that today myself.
I’m in agreement a midfield role would be great for him.
He’s one of the most likeable players in this squad I think - I hope he succeeds
He’s one of the most likeable players in this squad I think - I hope he succeeds
The difference between Zirkzee and Hojlund, to paraphrase Men in Black, is Zirkzee makes not scoring goals look good.
It would not be great at all
He slow as feck and weak. Hell no
Hes a sub/impact player as a 10/9
Olympique Lyonnais 2:2 Man Utd
New
Fair play to him, good goal.
Good cameo and played miles better than Hojlund who was poor with the simple things, again like ball control and simple lay offs. Zirkzee took his goal well with I think his 2nd headed goal of his career, we saw him show what hes sometimes shown and fought for the ball and had a decent break forward at one point as well. He didnt play the best pass at the end of it but it was overall another good piece of play
Much better than Hojlund. Should start ahead of him
Has to start, clearly a better option upfront