that pass to set up Garnacho 1v1 was class, should've been a great assist but Garnacho just nudges it at the keeper
11
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 40
- Goals
- 5
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 2
Pretty decent game. Could've gotten a brilliant assist if Garnacho did better.
Would still sell in the summer though, his stock should be high in Italy at least, get someone who suits our system better.
Would still sell in the summer though, his stock should be high in Italy at least, get someone who suits our system better.
People said he is a good passer, but he's at best a very erratic passer.
What he is good at is his close control and dribbling in tight spaces. He has an uncanny ability of making the ball stick to his feet. However, what he does next negates that ability completely. He either loses the ball because he takes too many touches, or he misplaces an easy 5 yard pass. This happens so often that it's not coincidende.
As others have pointed out, he may be brilliant at a slower paced league with less physical centre backs, but for United he just doesn't work. Currently, he's better than Højlund, but that says nothing at this point.
There are still matches to be played, but I don't see how he fits the Premier League.
What he is good at is his close control and dribbling in tight spaces. He has an uncanny ability of making the ball stick to his feet. However, what he does next negates that ability completely. He either loses the ball because he takes too many touches, or he misplaces an easy 5 yard pass. This happens so often that it's not coincidende.
As others have pointed out, he may be brilliant at a slower paced league with less physical centre backs, but for United he just doesn't work. Currently, he's better than Højlund, but that says nothing at this point.
There are still matches to be played, but I don't see how he fits the Premier League.
We will need to surround him with pace if he's to succeed here. I think he would have been very good under Ole for example. He plays like a slow, 6'3 Martial. His close control is fantastic but he needs to get runners to play passes in behind.
Yeah the flaws to his game are extensive but there's something there with him. If you accept the place we want to get to is to play higher and dominate the ball he might become a decent squad option.
We can't have a 10 in those positions that offers no goal threat though.
We can't have a 10 in those positions that offers no goal threat though.
This is fair, but I will say the stuff he struggles with are the areas that can definitely improve with time and exposure to the premier league. I'd argue he's already improved in this regard through the season. Hardly anything was coming off for him when he first joined, but now he's producing 1 or 2 good moments per game and his general performances are slowly getting cleaner.
The good attributes he already has are the more difficult ones to improve on over time. So I don't think he'll end up being a world beater, but I believe he'll grow into a useful player in time.
I’m Dutch and follow him for a while now. He has qualities to make fantastic goals (mostly not your typical in the box ones) but he’s sensative on a different level. His former coach at the Holland U21 team once said that Joshua can’t deal with the fact he’s on the second plan or there is no fully confidence in him. At Bologna he was the guy the whole team weighted on and then he can do magical things. If not some strange attributes are to follow
One of the problem is that he looks scared to have close contact with defenders in the box. I don’t know what happened but i think he once had a serious head injury or something because it’s not normal for a striker to always walk from your duty to make a header. If you look closely he always try to act injured for him not to make a header at a corner and then walks to the first post for him not come in contact. It’s something psychological.
He also has a strange timing in many things. He will press like a maniac when nobody is trying but he will walk when everyone is pressing. Or complain against a referee and teammate when it’s not the moment for it and nobody understand it. Same you saw with that offside goal from Garnacho against Brighton in the first game. The cross was already given and when the ball was already half past him he suddenly made the slide and the ball eventually went against him. The timing was completely off as if he lives in his own world.
In his favor i will say that besides all of this he also needs time to get used to the speed of English football. Everything goes slightly faster and he now is in the process to find solutions for his football to work out. New club, new speed and new position behind the main striker. Still he needs to do better and with faster decisions
One of the problem is that he looks scared to have close contact with defenders in the box. I don’t know what happened but i think he once had a serious head injury or something because it’s not normal for a striker to always walk from your duty to make a header. If you look closely he always try to act injured for him not to make a header at a corner and then walks to the first post for him not come in contact. It’s something psychological.
He also has a strange timing in many things. He will press like a maniac when nobody is trying but he will walk when everyone is pressing. Or complain against a referee and teammate when it’s not the moment for it and nobody understand it. Same you saw with that offside goal from Garnacho against Brighton in the first game. The cross was already given and when the ball was already half past him he suddenly made the slide and the ball eventually went against him. The timing was completely off as if he lives in his own world.
In his favor i will say that besides all of this he also needs time to get used to the speed of English football. Everything goes slightly faster and he now is in the process to find solutions for his football to work out. New club, new speed and new position behind the main striker. Still he needs to do better and with faster decisions
I thought he was ok yesterday and recently
But you’re dreaming if you think he’s going to play any part in a successful PL team.
He’s too slow, no goal threat and his height is effectively cancelled out by his inability to head the ball
But you’re dreaming if you think he’s going to play any part in a successful PL team.
He’s too slow, no goal threat and his height is effectively cancelled out by his inability to head the ball
I don't think he was okay at all. His workrate was decent but besides that he hardly showed much quality. He would dribble in tight spaces and then give the ball away with a stupid 5 yard pass. He didn't get into any goal scoring position and he wasn't a creative outlet. It is painful to watch him run or try to win headers. A thoroughly mediocre player with a thoroughly mediocre performance. I hope we cut our losses and find a buyer for him in the summer. He is not made for this league. He'll never thrive here.
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He needs replacing, he has some decent qualities but nothing that you can't find easily elsewhere. Him and Hojlund in the team make us completely toothless. Looks like a slow holding midfielder playing as a forward.
He’s a very strange player. I actually think he could be very effective in the right system but I don’t see that being here long term really. One thing I will say is the guy clearly doesn’t lack talent, he is capable of spectacular pieces of play but equally can be really frustrating the next. I feel for him in a way as I think if he comes into a functioning team and attacking unit, he would be able to showcase those positive moments more regularly, but he’s not the guy to elevate an average attack by himself.
He does not have good physicality. That’s one of the most alarming things, he’s that big, but has no idea how to
Use it
I thought he was okay but I think he hangs onto the ball too long and tries a lot of unnecessary skills which results in him getting dispossessed.
I am starting to see the potential he has but he needs to be more effective than he is currently showing.
I am starting to see the potential he has but he needs to be more effective than he is currently showing.
I disagree with you. I think his physical strength to be able to shield the ball from defender is one of his asset.
He has zero pace and stamina, and that's his issue. He was blowing out of his arse in the first half, and a couple of times he had a chance to run at the defence and was outpaced.
That said, his close control and skill is good, and I thought he played well yesterday. He's clearly not a striker, and playing as a 10 suits his game. His link up with Obi was good and shows that with a fully functioning striker he could be a decent player.
When being in form with confidence he shields and keeps the ball. Without confidence he shields the ball but is too much in his own head and the defender throws him away or comes in front
This is it - I’d like to see what he’s like with a 9 who makes good runs and more pace around him in the 10s and WBs. But why are we signing players with such physical limitations that render them useless without compensating & complimentary players all around them.
Still don't think Amorim knows how to use False 9's.
Amorim can only use those poacher type strikers in his strict systems.
Amorim can only use those poacher type strikers in his strict systems.
There's a player in there, definitely. We are not playing a system that will ever play to his strengths though. So the question is then how can a young player be signed for good money by the new football operations team, only for that team to then appoint a manager who doesn't have a role for him in the system that the manager is totally wedded to?
I agree about there being a player there but I don't really know what his best position is? Don't think he's a number 9, maybe false 9 would suit him but as you say we don't facilitate that in this system.
I think he would have to play as a 9, but with plenty of legs and pace around him to stretch teams. He could act as a good forward pivot to work around, but yea this system we are now using has no place for that sort of player.
He has show a lot more movement lately. I feel he is not constant chaser like Ugarte but he could very well play where Bruno has for a few games. Also, he'd offer a lot more than Casemiro. It's a shame we and him have both found ourselves in a situation where he is not right for the system.
I think ideally he's a false 9 with pace and goals in the 2 10 positions
The responses in this thread are as bizarrely muddled as his performances.
Half think he's awful at almost everything, half think he's basically good at everything but just needs the right position/support/PL acclimatisation.
But for those who think he was good yesterday (or in any game), how do you explain away the stats? I'm not a huge lover of stats myself, but his are generally absolutely awful.
Check out FotMob from the Fulham match. many people here seem to think he's good at pressing, winning, and shielding the ball. How on earth do you explain those stats? 10 Dispossesions! Do you know how bad that is? For comparison, most players generally have 0-1. Bruno had 0 in this game. Hojlund had 0. Dalot had 2.
I can see the response being "Stats are bullshit, I trust my eyes thank you". But Zirkzee (and Hojlund) are almost uniquely bad statistically among any players we've ever had.
Half think he's awful at almost everything, half think he's basically good at everything but just needs the right position/support/PL acclimatisation.
But for those who think he was good yesterday (or in any game), how do you explain away the stats? I'm not a huge lover of stats myself, but his are generally absolutely awful.
Check out FotMob from the Fulham match. many people here seem to think he's good at pressing, winning, and shielding the ball. How on earth do you explain those stats? 10 Dispossesions! Do you know how bad that is? For comparison, most players generally have 0-1. Bruno had 0 in this game. Hojlund had 0. Dalot had 2.
I can see the response being "Stats are bullshit, I trust my eyes thank you". But Zirkzee (and Hojlund) are almost uniquely bad statistically among any players we've ever had.
- Rating: 5.2 - lowest on the pitch (Hojlund was 6.0)
- Accurate passes: 28/38 (74%) - this is actually higher than most matches, he was under 70% in the 90 minutes)
- Expected goals (xG): 0.06
- Expected goals on target (xGOT): 0.00
- Expected assists (xA): 0.12
- xG + xA: 0.18
- Successful dribbles: 1/6 (17%)
- Passes into final third: 6
- Dispossessed: 10
- Non-penalty xG: 0.0
- Tackles won: 1/1 (100%)
- Clearances: 1
- Headed clearance: 1
- Interceptions: 1
- Defensive actions: 4
- Recoveries: 4
- Dribbled past: 2
- Duels won: 7
- Duels lost: 25
- Ground duels won: 5/23 (22%)
- Aerial duels won: 2/9 (22%)
- Was fouled: 3
- Fouls committed:1
I'm not sure what to do with him. I don't see a world in which we sell both of our strikers this summer, and he's clearly more effective than Hojlund. But I also don't see how he fits into any good side given the flaws in his game and the style of the league.
Agreed, which is one of the reasons I feel we could give him a chance next season to see how he comes along. Look at players like Szoboszlai and Gravenberch in their second season, sometimes a player just needs to adapt to a new country, way of life, league, etc. People continually wrote off Amad for being too small, halfway through his first proper season as a starter and those opinions barely exist anymore. He was another one I felt had a chance due to his techincal proficiency being very good.
I am always more confident in how you can develop a player who already has very good technical grounding, because it is easier to train physical strength, fitness, etc. and refine your technique if you already have a good technical grounding than it is to train a physical player to be technically refined enough to be a great attacking player. It is more concerning when a player doesn't seem to have great technical grounding. I'd guess there are far more ATG players that are more physically limited than technically limited ones.
There was a stat daying he lost 25/32 physical duels yesterday. So if that is an asset, the rest of his game is rather meagre.
We're not in a position to have a project player. A player who is a strange one and we give time to in order to see of they can put it all together.
Having said that I'd start him up top on Thursday.
Having said that I'd start him up top on Thursday.
I genuinely can't remember the last time we had 2 strikers that I personally don't want either to start and yet both have to play
.
I hope we can sell both and replace them this summer, but I highly doubt it.
.I hope we can sell both and replace them this summer, but I highly doubt it.
I dont think hes a striker. I can easily see him being quite good in a Joelinton / Fellaini role, I just have no idea why we'd persue that. Selling McTominay and replacing him with a player that might be as good as him in 18 months, possibly, is pretty fecking baffling. Even more so when Bruno continues to play every minute of every match, even more again when its probably Mainoo's best position too.
I'd sell him, he's a decent player but just makes no damn sense in this team even with the most optimistic outcome.
I'd sell him, he's a decent player but just makes no damn sense in this team even with the most optimistic outcome.
All we can do is moan that ETH had Manchester United Football Club by two strikers who are nowhere close to the quality of football player we have come to expect. But at least Zirkzee has the ability to pull off a nifty move on a defender now and then.
If we can sell Hojlund for 10m this summer we should bite someone's hand off, or however that daft phrase goes. Keep Zirkzee as a backup and buy a proper striker this summer.
If we can sell Hojlund for 10m this summer we should bite someone's hand off, or however that daft phrase goes. Keep Zirkzee as a backup and buy a proper striker this summer.
This is such a problem with football fans now. Just swallowing stats that the internet Mama Bird's into their throats.
"Hojlund 6"
If you, or whatever website you plucked that from, think that was a passing grade from Hojlund yesterday then you and/or they just haven't a clue about football, it's simple as that. He did nothing well yesterday. Absolutely nothing. Not a thing.
Zirkzee wasn't good but just watching the match tells you that he at least had some good touches and lay offs that started some moves. It's clear there is some talent there and his base footballing level is galaxies ahead of Hojlund but it's how do we accommodate him, if we even can. He just seems too peculiar a player to work with.
He doesn’t want his CF to play like a typical false 9, it would negate the effectiveness of his 10s. But at Sporting his front 3 was very fluid. Gyokeres would sometimes play a target man type role where they fed the ball in to him and the 10s would run off and beyond him. The issues here are that we don’t have a CF who is good at holding up the ball and feeding these runs. Zirkzee at 10 doesn’t seem to have the explosiveness to run beyond, Garnacho is often taking up his LW position rather than playing between the lines centrally etc. Just many wrong profiles.
I think the best we could offer this season with Amad out would be Zirkzee at CF with Bruno and Mount in behind if we want to replicate this. Mount made a name from running being the CF and scoring goals a couple of years ago.
But the issue is that Gyokeres also run the channels well too and created openings that way too. Zirkzee couldn’t do this. Maybe Hojlund is more suited to this side of the game but nothing he does is coming off and he’s easily dealt with.
Casemiro came on and was miles better than him. More creative, more of an impact and scored his penalty and thats on top of being a ball winner which Zirkzee isnt.
You're probably right.
Zirkzee appears to be gaining favor among some fans, but I still struggle to see what his position is, especially in a 2025/26 Amorim side. He's not a #9, #10, or anything else.
If anything, he comes across as Ten Hag's answer to replacing what Weghorst contributed in year 1 - size and hold up ability, but with little to no finishing instinct.
This is my biggest issue with him, he’ll mange to protect the ball and make some space for himself but 9 times out of 10 he’s then too slow in making the next pass and gets tackled or tires to nut meg someone for no reason.
He should be used to the speed of the league by now so I’m not holding out much hope this is going to change.
He's gone from being shite and a pointless signing to talented and a pointless signing. He's not of much use to the team in solving our issues but his pointlessness is more aesthetically pleasing than the other options so that's a positive at least.
All that niftiness and soft touch disappears when he picks up the ball in the final third, where he miskicks every strike and underhits any pass. Without the deft touches in midfield it wouldn't even be a question whether to sell. If he makes it to next season he will owe his paycheck to Hojlund for making him look less shite by comparison. I don't know what then was the point of moving on from Martial or Weghorst. At least both could combine to form one underwhelming linkup striker. The selling point for moving them was finally raising standards at the club. He, Hojlund and Onana are a brutal step back.
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10 disposessions
That's what I saw
Shocking game but I still have hope
That's what I saw
Shocking game but I still have hope
I don't really get what he does, sure he can look quite elegant on the ball but does he actually have any impact? The eye-test doesn't appear to say so and certainly the stats don't.
He's a bit style over substance, probably had more nutmegs this season than goals and assists combined. Also the speed with which he wants to play doesn't fit the PL at all, almost zero intensity (and appears to be absolutely dire aerially for a guy that's 6'4").
He's a bit style over substance, probably had more nutmegs this season than goals and assists combined. Also the speed with which he wants to play doesn't fit the PL at all, almost zero intensity (and appears to be absolutely dire aerially for a guy that's 6'4").