[Paddymcc]

Todays first goal we conceded highlights the problem playing Zirkzee as a 9

Baleba got possession deep in Brightons half when he dropped into Brightons backline, Amorims instruction is for one of the wide centre halves to jump into midfield on Pedro which leaves a huge gap behind. Baleba puts the ball inside Mazraoui where De Light was previously covering and off Mitouma runs through on goal and centres for Minteh to score.

The whole shit show for that goal starts with Zirkzee who never bothered closing Baleba who had all the time in the world to pick that pass as well as De Light for continuing the jump when it was a long ball behind with zero pressure on the passer and Mazraoui going to sleep.

Its like playing an offside line how can you start that jump from defence when there is zero pressure being put on the passer of the ball.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

Decent 1st half but we’ll be lucky to get anything more than 8-10 goals from him in a season. Add in our wing backs who haven’t scored all season along with Ugarte and Mainoo the team has far too many starting players that ate not a goal scoring threat.

Yeah, football isn't that complicated. There are so many players who are no goal threat. Simple as that

 

[DJ_21]

He can at least bully defenders, has good strength, really good link up play. But he’s surrounded by other useless players

 

[Stadjer]

Todays first goal we conceded highlights the problem playing Zirkzee as a 9

Baleba got possession deep in Brightons half when he dropped into Brightons backline, Amorims instruction is for one of the wide centre halves to jump into midfield on Pedro which leaves a huge gap behind. Baleba puts the ball inside Mazraoui where De Light was previously covering and off Mitouma runs through on goal and centres for Minteh to score.

The whole shit show for that goal starts with Zirkzee who never bothered closing Baleba who had all the time in the world to pick that pass as well as De Light for continuing the jump when it was a long ball behind with zero pressure on the passer and Mazraoui going to sleep.

Its like playing an offside line how can you start that jump from defence when there is zero pressure being put on the passer of the ball.

Maguire played Brighton onside and then couldnt keep up with the Brighton speedsters for that goal. Strange to blame Zirkzee or de Ligt for that.

 

[Red_Aaron]

Maybe we could joelinton him?

He's a similar size and similar goal threat

 

[Paddymcc]

Maguire played Brighton onside and then couldnt keep up with the Brighton speedsters for that goal. Strange to blame Zirkzee or de Ligt for that.

Yes Maguire shouldn't have been caught playing people onside but someone has to press Baleba. He had time to pick which ever pass he wanted.

Hurzeler really did a number on the weaknesses in the formation Amorim uses when one of the defenders jumps into midfield.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Todays first goal we conceded highlights the problem playing Zirkzee as a 9

Baleba got possession deep in Brightons half when he dropped into Brightons backline, Amorims instruction is for one of the wide centre halves to jump into midfield on Pedro which leaves a huge gap behind. Baleba puts the ball inside Mazraoui where De Light was previously covering and off Mitouma runs through on goal and centres for Minteh to score.

The whole shit show for that goal starts with Zirkzee who never bothered closing Baleba who had all the time in the world to pick that pass as well as De Light for continuing the jump when it was a long ball behind with zero pressure on the passer and Mazraoui going to sleep.

Its like playing an offside line how can you start that jump from defence when there is zero pressure being put on the passer of the ball.

I basically agree with you but, as you say, it also took brainless contributions from De Ligt and Mazrouai as well as Zirkzee. We can cope when one player doesn’t do his job but when two or three cock up simultaneously we’re screwed. We just have to hope they get better at all of this as they get to spend more time playing and training together. But the learning curve is going to continue to be grim.

 

[11101]

Actually played quite well today but there is never a chance where you think 'he might score here'. He is so unbelievably toothless in front of goal.

 

[RRCE]

He was good in the first half, not as good in the second. Definitely some nice hold up play. He needs to realize that he doesn’t have all of the time in the world when he’s on the ball. Hopefully a step in the right direction.

 

[Pav1878]

Maybe we could joelinton him?

He's a similar size and similar goal threat

Not a bad idea! But is JZ as nasty as Joelinton? I don’t think so. Seems a nice lad.
I like him in the Sheringham role though.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Surely he and Hojlund complement each other? One running the channels, the other holding up the ball.

No idea why we insist on playing just one and blunting our firepower, when as is they are individually not good enough.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Maybe we could joelinton him?

He's a similar size and similar goal threat

When you say similar size, you mean height right? Because Joelinton is fast/lean/aggressive - I think it's fair to say Zirkzee is none of these things - we've seen him have loads of moments where he dribbles into space and an opposition player always then just overtakes him and gets the ball back.

 

[Bwuk]

Surely he and Hojlund complement each other? One running the channels, the other holding up the ball.

No idea why we insist on playing just one and blunting our firepower, when as is they are individually not good enough.

I actually think that’s how you’re probably going to get the best out of both of them. Hojlund to the left of Zirkzee with Amad on the right.

A very lop sided attack but Hojlund can’t hold it up. Just get him high between the RB & RCB and look for Bruno/Zirkzee to play it behind for him to run onto.

RWB - Ugarte - Bruno - LWB
Amad - Zirkzee - Hojlund​

I don’t think this is a great solution but it’s benefit both.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Surely he and Hojlund complement each other? One running the channels, the other holding up the ball.

No idea why we insist on playing just one and blunting our firepower, when as is they are individually not good enough.

I actually think this is our only option.

Take Hojlund away from the build up and make him play where's he's good - on the shoulder and running in behind. Zirkzee plays 10 (as in an actual 10 in how they used to be with a 9/10).

Bruno as the sole 10 behind and Amad RWB with Garnacho LWB. We are conceding goals for fun, we need something at the other end.

 

[Desert Eagle]

I actually think that’s how you’re probably going to get the best out of both of them. Hojlund to the left of Zirkzee with Amad on the right.

A very lop sided attack but Hojlund can’t hold it up. Just get him high between the RB & RCB and look for Bruno/Zirkzee to play it behind for him to run onto.

RWB - Ugarte - Bruno - LWB
Amad - Zirkzee - Hojlund​

I don’t think this is a great solution but it’s benefit both.

Yeah i want to see that tried out too.

 

[JBG]

I actually think that’s how you’re probably going to get the best out of both of them. Hojlund to the left of Zirkzee with Amad on the right.

A very lop sided attack but Hojlund can’t hold it up. Just get him high between the RB & RCB and look for Bruno/Zirkzee to play it behind for him to run onto.

RWB - Ugarte - Bruno - LWB
Amad - Zirkzee - Hojlund​

I don’t think this is a great solution but it’s benefit both.

Yeah it is weird how we haven't tried playing them together a couple off matches. Højlund is the type of player that needs to run at space, with or without the ball. Not a player that is going to keep the ball and bring others in.

 

[Red_Aaron]

When you say similar size, you mean height right? Because Joelinton is fast/lean/aggressive - I think it's fair to say Zirkzee is none of these things - we've seen him have loads of moments where he dribbles into space and an opposition player always then just overtakes him and gets the ball back.

I wasn't being totally serious it was a flippant comment based on him being big and rubbish in front of goal

 

[tomaldinho1]

I wasn't being totally serious it was a flippant comment based on him being big and rubbish in front of goal

I'll try anything right now

 

[bosnian_red]

Surely he and Hojlund complement each other? One running the channels, the other holding up the ball.

No idea why we insist on playing just one and blunting our firepower, when as is they are individually not good enough.

Probably because as individual players they aren't really worth playing over someone we would have to drop to start them together?

 

[Lyng]

Probably because as individual players they aren't really worth playing over someone we would have to drop to start them together?

Its not like Garnacho is offering more at the moment

 

[Vidyoyo]

I said yesterday in the snob's thread that if we had two competent attackers either side of him he could be our budget version of Firminho. His hold up play/passing is good enough for it and him dropping back helps up build the attack.

I'm not sure if Hojlund to the left would work but I'd like to see it tried. Amad worked very well to the right yesterday but we look blunt with that being our only option. It's too easy to know how we're going to attack.

 

[bosnian_red]

Its not like Garnacho is offering more at the moment

He's not starting much either but he's far more talented than Hojlund especially and he is in fact offering more than both of them still when he does play.

Beyond that though, the system isn't a 3-5-2, it's a 3-4-2-1. He doesn't use 2 strikers. I do agree that both Zirkzee and Hojlund are better suited to playing as a front 2 pairing and that's where they impressed more while in Italy anyway, but I don't think it's worth changing your system for 2 mediocre players so it's whatever.

 

[Lyng]

He's not starting much either but he's far more talented than Hojlund especially and he is in fact offering more than both of them still when he does play.

Beyond that though, the system isn't a 3-5-2, it's a 3-4-2-1. He doesn't use 2 strikers. I do agree that both Zirkzee and Hojlund are better suited to playing as a front 2 pairing and that's where they impressed more while in Italy anyway, but I don't think it's worth changing your system for 2 mediocre players so it's whatever.

I dont really care about talent at the moment. Right now we need to focus on results and Garnacho is struggling in this system, talent or no.
Højlund can run the lanes like he did in Atalanta. Its hardly changing the system.

 

[bosnian_red]

I dont really care about talent at the moment. Right now we need to focus on results and Garnacho is struggling in this system, talent or no.
Højlund can run the lanes like he did in Atalanta. Its hardly changing the system.

I'd say the only results that actually matter for the rest of this season are cup games, and the league games are basically purely development games. So making system adjustments to try and grind out results (not that I think they would bring better results anyway) isn't actually beneficial to us... What we need is proper development with the system that he's going to be playing with us, and player development for those that will be here long term. That matters more than moving from 13th to 10th by the end of the season.

 

[Lyng]

I'd say the only results that actually matter for the rest of this season are cup games, and the league games are basically purely development games. So making system adjustments to try and grind out results (not that I think they would bring better results anyway) isn't actually beneficial to us... What we need is proper development with the system that he's going to be playing with us, and player development for those that will be here long term. That matters more than moving from 13th to 10th by the end of the season.

Garnacho is more than likely gone before the end of January anyway, by the looks of it.

 

[Ole90+3]

Guarantee you're hoping he's rubbish on Sunday.

No but I was correct, unfortunately he just matches the rest of the team’s performance

 

[Gordon S]

We should try to play them both at some time, Josh and Raz. Josh can receive the ball and Raz can run in behind and score. Easy as that!

 

[Roane]

We should try to play them both at some time, Josh and Raz. Josh can receive the ball and Raz can run in behind and score. Easy as that!

I've been banging this drum for a while. I do think Ras is decent finisher.

The only problem I foresee is his, Rasmus, movement. I'm never sure what he is trying to do.

I do see a player in Zirkzee. I think his problems are confounded by the gaps we leave. In my view mainly the MF who go wandering, especially Bruno and Mainoo. I think a young Eriksen would be ideal for Zirkzee who seems a give n go type player, who isn't the quickest but makes space to move and receive the ball.

Basically he needs technical players around him and we seem to be lacking in that. Rasmus currently is the least technical. Shown by the game the other day when he passed a ball and ran towards the player who he played it to, the ball was played back behind him with a one touch. Because of his movement the ball went into space and the defender got hold of it.

 

[lex talionis]

We need a proper striker.

 

[Greck]

Great hold up but he's the most shot shy forward we've had in a while, defers to a fault, almost can't wait to pass when it'd be easier to finish the play himself.

 

[Kaos]

We should try to play them both at some time, Josh and Raz. Josh can receive the ball and Raz can run in behind and score. Easy as that!

They're both not good enough, and certainly don't warrant us changing the system for players of their limited calibre. We should stick with one or the other until we ideally sign a proper CF, and then slowly bin the pair of them.

 

[Marcus]

Zirkzee holds up the ball better than Hojlund and seems to have a much greater passing repertoire. I like that he seems to have gotten over his early substitution and is willing to fight for his place in the team.

 

[Gordon S]

They're both not good enough, and certainly don't warrant us changing the system for players of their limited calibre. We should stick with one or the other until we ideally sign a proper CF, and then slowly bin the pair of them.

Right here right now they are most certainly not good enough. But both are young and are showing talent when they are getting in the right situations. Josh dropping deeper to receive and he shows good link up qualities, Rasmus getting to run the channels and you can see he is a powerful runner that is hard to contain, we have also seen a number of times that he is a good finisher.

 

[Ekeke]

Surely he and Hojlund complement each other? One running the channels, the other holding up the ball.

No idea why we insist on playing just one and blunting our firepower, when as is they are individually not good enough.

Hes had 2 games in the #10 position, including against Newcastle where he was subbed after 33 mins. That one was with Hojlund

He just hasnt done enough. Decent first half against Brighton as the striker though

 

[Redivy]

I think Zirkzee can succeed if we end up with attacking wingbacks and CAMs who are willing to make the runs in behind.

The LWB and LAM signings will be crucial to his career at this club.

 

[Lyng]

I think Zirkzee can succeed if we end up with attacking wingbacks and CAMs who are willing to make the runs in behind.

The LWB and LAM signings will be crucial to his career at this club.

Given that he offers close to zero goal threat we would need wingbacks and cams that score all the goals we lose by having him as a striker. Even Bruno doesnt score enough to warrant that.
We need a real striker.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

Who are the better false 9's in the world currently?

Im just asking because i have a feeling that Zirkzee could one day be one of the best of his role (not his position).

With regard to Hojlund and how many pure number 9's he has to compete with then Hojlunds challenge is much more tough.

 

[Lyng]

Who are the better false 9's in the world currently?

Im just asking because i have a feeling that Zirkzee could one day be one of the best of his role (not his position).

With regard to Hojlund and how many pure number 9's he has to compete with then Hojlunds challenge is much more tough.

Given Zirkzee's lack of speed and goal threat I dont see him being one of the best false nines in the world at any point.
I agree on your point with Højlund though.

 

[harms]

Who are the better false 9's in the world currently?

Im just asking because i have a feeling that Zirkzee could one day be one of the best of his role (not his position).

With regard to Hojlund and how many pure number 9's he has to compete with then Hojlunds challenge is much more tough.

Barely anyone plays with a false 9 nowadays. Olmo is on another level when played there (most lately against Betis). Havertz too — he's a very good option for the role despite his horrendous performance against us in the cup. Some would classify Kane as one even though he's a proper number 9 that loves to drop deeper. Zirkzee isn't even remotely close to these guys though.

 

[Lyng]

Barely anyone plays with a false 9 nowadays. Olmo is on another level when played there (most lately against Betis). Havertz too — he's a very good option for the role despite his horrendous performance against us in the cup. Some would classify Kane as one even though he's a proper number 9 that loves to drop deeper. Zirkzee isn't even remotely close to these guys though.

Dybala could be added to the list as well. Also much better player than Zirkzee