Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

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Because he isn't as good as Guardiola is, pretty much. I really don't like Mourinho as United's manager (but oddly still kind of like the guy, as I used to like him at Chelsea and all that... just not at United), but he is still a top manager. Not the very best, but that's not the problem. The problem is he isn't suited to this club. My issue with the line of thinking of "win the league or bust" is that it's a very harsh mentality. IMO, as long as there are plenty of encouraging signs, then the manager should stay. General points like these:
  • A progression in quality of performances (whether that's defensive play or offensive, it gives you hope that he's doing the right thing).
  • Improvement in players already at the club (no brainer, but also gives you hope that with even better players they can make a further step up as a club.
  • Consistency in style of play (a manager changing his tactics for every single game makes me think he doesn't know what he's doing and he's just trying anything. Not changing formation or making the odd exception, but general play style and tactics).
  • Good results (because it's nice to have everything else, but at the end of the day, you do need at least your base objectives like get top 4)
Then for certain clubs, there are other points that really need to be fulfilled (and I thought United was one of these clubs):
  • Entertaining football
  • Giving youth a chance
  • Never giving up/being defeatist in your comments as the manager, no matter what you actually believe
  • Building a side with the aim to be the best (any side with the financial strength of United, City, PSG, Barcelona, Real Madrid or Bayern Munich really should be striving for this, always building a side to try and outplay any other side. Teams like Atletico are more those who can't compete financially so build a side to nullify and compete like that. That's a big problem with Mourinho. Even at one of the 5 wealthiest clubs, he's dream is to build a side to nullify and not dominate)
Things like this is more United specific. I would never say trophies are a necessity in one specific season, as luck can just really not go your way and you end up runners up in everything. Would be dumb to sack somebody if they finished runners up in the league but had huge progression in overall play style, improved everyone at the club, and so on.

The problem with Mourinho is that for me, he doesn't tick most of these points. Our quality of performance if anything deteriorates as the season goes on. The players at the club already have if anything, gone backwards for the most part. There is no consistency in style of play (or there is, if you consider how Mourinho goes to defend/kill the momentum of a game the second we play a decent side). He doesn't play entertaining football. He's always been one who alienates the promising young attacking players, and it's the case again (there's a difference with giving them appearances, and really nurturing them). Then obviously the last point, as Mourinho with all the money and players in the world, would still just build a side who could just nullify a dream Pep side, rather then dominate anyone.

The only thing he usually has going for him is results and getting trophies. He achieved the bare minimum with his results, because we failed in every cup competition, and if anything way over-achieved in our league position relative to the on field performances. So I'd be worried if I were him, because he needs to drastically change if he wants to keep his job past next season IMO.

I would agree with you if we are evaluating his first season and he achieves any of that. Or his second season.

But we’re talking about his third season next year and at a club like United, even if he hypothetically ticked every single box you mentioned in your post without actually winning the league, after 3 years, that’s a failure in my eyes. The things you alluded to would keep me going for a year or two but not forever. There has to be an end game. Just because Pep is a better manager doesn’t mean we shouldn’t expect our manager to pull off a title once in a while.

On the other hand, if he didn’t achieve any of what you mentioned but still somehow won the league, I would obviously keep him. So what you say there is well and good as a means to an end, but not as a continuous acceptance so long as Pep is here.
 
Be a bit more tactful and wise with your words. Footballing wise be fearless in your footballing philosophy. Unfortunately, he finds himself against Pep and Cities riches and be forever compared to United's flair teams of the past. Next season will probably be the biggest test of his career.
 
I don’t think it’s about taking the shackles off, I just think we just need to find a way of being more clinical with the ball. More tempo, more movement, better control in tight spaces, better final deliveries when we get into those positions etc. Just need more quality in the final third, more cutting edge.

Playmakers are the answer to that. Attacking and deep lying playmakers. Unfortunately we are not looking to buy them and other teams seem to be getting them ahead of us ,but ofcourse one never knows whats going on secretly in transfer window.

We hardly need more box to box players as there is just no space in the final third when opponents play defensive.

Mourinho got Modric and Ozil for Madrid and had Xabi Alonso inherited and that's why Real Madrid were so cohesive and deadly in his time. Here we seem to have forgotten what Made us tick under Fergie and what Made mourinho tick at chelsea and Real madrid, which is very surprising and baffling in this modern age of football a club like Man united is short of resources of players who can pass the ball and playmake while we are still linked with tall physical players and workhorses in the transfer window rather than players who have great vision and passing skills and great ball control.
 
I have a feeling this time Jose will fail not because he faces another locker room rebellion but as result of a set of bang average players that he is trusting.

My biggest concern is Jones - Smalling pairing up. Should be a back three or Bailly included

This was my post in match day thread a week ago. Today i read a tweet mentioning Jose's past explaination about recent Bailly's omission that's because he wanna give Jones and Smalling a chance to be chosen by England for WC. But now Smalling is officially at home this summer, there is absolutely no excuse for weird FA final XI selection.

The only conclusion is that Jose actually rated both Jones and Smalling better than Bailly, which is really a deep concern, especially when everyone knew how good Bailly is and everyone all witnessed the disaster performance this duo had caused against Spurs in PL right at Wembley months ago.

Plus the blind love he keeps laying on Fellaini and Lingard, there will be some certain days Jose must pay for it. The problem with average players is sometimes, they maybe seem more consistent than some quality players (which is probably Jose's priority when choosing his team), however because of their limited ability, those average players could cost us a fortune at any time. It's more dangerous when either their mistakes or simply average performances from them arrive in matches where we cannot lose, like what happened against Spurs, Sevilla and last FA final - those matches defined our fate this season.

If Jose keeps putting average players with a little bit consistency ahead of real quality players in selection order then we will definitely be in trouble again and again
 
Who knows, it would be hard to sack him if he even repeats this season. It would be a big move but it’s why Chelsea moved him first time and why Real didn’t take to him either. Now reports are coming out that there is division in the board, some want him to stay others don’t. Reportedly lining up Poch to take over next year.

Are those reports verified, or you just making small talk, cause we all know you love Jose. I would like to see them, or do you speak to Woody every day and have an inside information. Please, let us know.
 
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One thing I can predict quite confidently is that the tactics won't change next season. Because Mourinho isn't showcasing this style of play to spite people, it's just the football that he believes in. He's always played this way, he always will play this way.

Actually, if you look at the top managers, this pretty much applies across the board. Guardiola has stated publicly that he will always play the same way. He was criticised for it last season. Klopp is playing an extremely similar style at Liverpool to his Dortmund team. Haven't seen that much of Conte's teams before Chelsea, but I'm sure they played a pragmatic, Italian style. Wenger resolutely refused to change his style and beliefs at Arsenal. And if and when Simeone leaves Atleti, I hardly expect his future teams to play swashbuckling football. They will remain painstakingly organised and difficult to break down. I think even Ferguson's teams largely played with a basic template of lots of width, fast build-up, crossing far more than most European teams, get bodies in the box, overload the opposition.

It's very unusual for a manager to massively change his style of play at any stage of his career, let alone the stage Mourinho is at now. So you're basically stuck with it. One thing that could have an impact on next season, though, is that virtually every Man City player is going to the World Cup, so the early weeks of next season will be tricky for them. It's possible that they could make a stuttering start, and they could lose confidence from this, and maybe things won't run as smoothly as this season. If this occurs then United are one of the teams well placed to challenge, although I think Chelsea are the second best team in the league when everyone is fit and motivated.

But that's your best hope of winning a major trophy next season, because Mourinho isn't suddenly going to change his spots and start playing scintillating football.
 
I would agree with you if we are evaluating his first season and he achieves any of that. Or his second season.

But we’re talking about his third season next year and at a club like United, even if he hypothetically ticked every single box you mentioned in your post without actually winning the league, after 3 years, that’s a failure in my eyes. The things you alluded to would keep me going for a year or two but not forever. There has to be an end game. Just because Pep is a better manager doesn’t mean we shouldn’t expect our manager to pull off a title once in a while.

On the other hand, if he didn’t achieve any of what you mentioned but still somehow won the league, I would obviously keep him. So what you say there is well and good as a means to an end, but not as a continuous acceptance so long as Pep is here.

I would even take any sign of improvement in our style of play as a reason to keep him beyond next season, but I think this basic parameter itself will be hard for Mourinho to achieve.
Because he isn't as good as Guardiola is, pretty much. I really don't like Mourinho as United's manager (but oddly still kind of like the guy, as I used to like him at Chelsea and all that... just not at United), but he is still a top manager. Not the very best, but that's not the problem. The problem is he isn't suited to this club. My issue with the line of thinking of "win the league or bust" is that it's a very harsh mentality. IMO, as long as there are plenty of encouraging signs, then the manager should stay. General points like these:
  • A progression in quality of performances (whether that's defensive play or offensive, it gives you hope that he's doing the right thing).
  • Improvement in players already at the club (no brainer, but also gives you hope that with even better players they can make a further step up as a club.
  • Consistency in style of play (a manager changing his tactics for every single game makes me think he doesn't know what he's doing and he's just trying anything. Not changing formation or making the odd exception, but general play style and tactics).
  • Good results (because it's nice to have everything else, but at the end of the day, you do need at least your base objectives like get top 4)
Then for certain clubs, there are other points that really need to be fulfilled (and I thought United was one of these clubs):
  • Entertaining football
  • Giving youth a chance
  • Never giving up/being defeatist in your comments as the manager, no matter what you actually believe
  • Building a side with the aim to be the best (any side with the financial strength of United, City, PSG, Barcelona, Real Madrid or Bayern Munich really should be striving for this, always building a side to try and outplay any other side. Teams like Atletico are more those who can't compete financially so build a side to nullify and compete like that. That's a big problem with Mourinho. Even at one of the 5 wealthiest clubs, he's dream is to build a side to nullify and not dominate)
Things like this is more United specific. I would never say trophies are a necessity in one specific season, as luck can just really not go your way and you end up runners up in everything. Would be dumb to sack somebody if they finished runners up in the league but had huge progression in overall play style, improved everyone at the club, and so on.

The problem with Mourinho is that for me, he doesn't tick most of these points. Our quality of performance if anything deteriorates as the season goes on. The players at the club already have if anything, gone backwards for the most part. There is no consistency in style of play (or there is, if you consider how Mourinho goes to defend/kill the momentum of a game the second we play a decent side). He doesn't play entertaining football. He's always been one who alienates the promising young attacking players, and it's the case again (there's a difference with giving them appearances, and really nurturing them). Then obviously the last point, as Mourinho with all the money and players in the world, would still just build a side who could just nullify a dream Pep side, rather then dominate anyone.

The only thing he usually has going for him is results and getting trophies. He achieved the bare minimum with his results, because we failed in every cup competition, and if anything way over-achieved in our league position relative to the on field performances. So I'd be worried if I were him, because he needs to drastically change if he wants to keep his job past next season IMO.

Good points. I would even take any sign of improvement in our style of play as a reason to keep him beyond next season, but I think this basic parameter itself will be hard for Mourinho to achieve.

He has been here for two seasons and if he had been the type of manager who concentrates on iteratively improving the squad and nurturing players then by now, we might have had a decent team in our hands with a definite style of play and plan of attack. Then going into next season, we would have known exactly which type of player we need to target and more importantly which player won't fit into the system.

Currently, we are all over the place, and each time we go into the transfer market, we look like we are starting from scratch and have to buy half a team to just play decent football, let alone win the title. Our transfer strategy is unclear. Like, was Sanchez really required? Maybe he was, but then we don't seem to be able to get him involved that much and we look just as drab as we used to look without him.

I think Mourinho focuses too much on winning and getting the best result and I feel that this mentality slowly reduces the quality of play instead of improving it. If the team is already good, and has lost their way a bit, then I feel he is the ideal person for getting them back on track and even in this case, he can be kept for only about 2 years.

Performing well next season depends entirely on how we do in the transfer season. I can't think of a single player who has stood out this season and we can't say : "Our player + new signing" will be devastating next season. A 2nd placed team should ideally have at least two players who have been great and I don't think we have that.

The only thing decent about this season is our league position.
 
Are those reports verified, or you just making small talk, cause we all know you love Jose. I would like to see them, or do you speak to Woody every day and have an inside information. Please, let us know.
It’s called the newspapers and they’ve been running stories like this since December and then another one yesterday, hence why the use of the word “reports” in the post you replied to.
 
Playmakers are the answer to that. Attacking and deep lying playmakers. Unfortunately we are not looking to buy them and other teams seem to be getting them ahead of us ,but ofcourse one never knows whats going on secretly in transfer window.

We hardly need more box to box players as there is just no space in the final third when opponents play defensive.

Mourinho got Modric and Ozil for Madrid and had Xabi Alonso inherited and that's why Real Madrid were so cohesive and deadly in his time. Here we seem to have forgotten what Made us tick under Fergie and what Made mourinho tick at chelsea and Real madrid, which is very surprising and baffling in this modern age of football a club like Man united is short of resources of players who can pass the ball and playmake while we are still linked with tall physical players and workhorses in the transfer window rather than players who have great vision and passing skills and great ball control.
It's what the manager wants, personally I feel we are missing a deep lying playmaker like Carrick and we should do anything to sign Jorginho but we seem to going in for box to box players like Savic and Fred.
 
His reliance on big players and physicality reveals a lot about his coaching ability today. He doesn't know how to play on the ground.
 
I cant defend Jose anymore, I've had enough of his style of play, worse managers have got the sack, his signings like bailey and victor not even starting but jones and smalling do. Give him 500m and we will still be the same next season, cant wait :annoyed::annoyed:
 
He's spent an absolute fortune that Moysie and Van Gaal probably wouldn't have done worse with.

Another £200M-£300M for him? Then what's the excuse? sooner or later he has to leave the club.. it's his 3rd season next season and there's barely any progress... in position or entertainment.

Sanchez, Pogba.. what flops ! it's on him..

Sanchez is the biggest as he isn't young enough to improve and seems worse than Di Maria.

Pogba looks like he's still in the Manchester United's youth teams, no discipline. The Top Red's who seen him then (the proper ones who attended youth games) now still see the same player who hit the jackpot at Juve but is still the same immature player he was back then if you analysis his performance side-by-side to then.

Like footballers get past it eventually surely managers can too? in terms of outdated tactics, fatigue etc.. so I think Jose is just past his sell by date.

We would all cream ourselves to have the Jose of Chelsea 2005-2007 season but it ain't gonna happen. Nobody how much we hope or Woodward pumps money into him we can't magically make that Jose appear.. like I said he's a Chelsea legend and let them have him they don't have many lol
 
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I think he can be afforded one more season, but something needs to give. He needs to find a system and a style of play quick. His signings will speak volumes and what ever happens with Fellaini too. I expect him to sell Martial, and if his replacement doesn’t do well and Martial takes off next season for someone else. His done. He can’t afford another Salah, KDB situation.
 
I don’t think it’s about taking the shackles off, I just think we just need to find a way of being more clinical with the ball. More tempo, more movement, better control in tight spaces, better final deliveries when we get into those positions etc. Just need more quality in the final third, more cutting edge.

I know some people feel there's some instruction Jose can give to make the team more attacking, 'shackles' he can take off and the team suddenly goes all gung ho, guys there isn't. This is it. Only improvement I can see is if the new players he brings in can come in and not go to shit like Pogba, Sanchez, Rash and Martial and actually improve us. A Hazard like player who can carry the team and cover up for our cluelessness in attack. That's it, I've seen all I need to see from Jose's coaching to know that its absolute garbage and past it.
 
What sort of absolutely clueless cnut of a United fan actually thinks this utter mess should continue as manager ffs? Probably the same twats that think Martial should be sold and rate Lukaku.
First of all, thanks for kind words. It is always nice to see when people take their opinion for holy truth.
Progress with jose is obvious. He clearly needs 3 or 4 players to finish rebuilding this team. I am sure that next year we will fight till the end with city for title.
Against chelsea we were far better team. They had one clear chance( alonso). We lost because we have shit defence. With new left back and world class central defender we will be complete team. Real and city are proof that all goes from defence. If you have wc defence everything is easier. If you can't see that, it is your problem. You just keep writing kind words to other posters who disagree with you.
 
It’s called the newspapers and they’ve been running stories like this since December and then another one yesterday, hence why the use of the word “reports” in the post you replied to.

To be honest, boardroom divide over Jose’s future is not something that I’d consider far fetched at all. His tactics, his team selections, his insistence on throwing everyone (including the club itself) under the bus to protect himself and the God awful football are all factors that should be making them question his management of the club.
 
It’s called the newspapers and they’ve been running stories like this since December and then another one yesterday, hence why the use of the word “reports” in the post you replied to.
Where? I haven't seen the newspapers say this since he was linked with PSG then it all went quiet when he signed an extension.
 
To be honest, boardroom divide over Jose’s future is not something that I’d consider far fetched at all. His tactics, his team selections, his insistence on throwing everyone (including the club itself) under the bus to protect himself and the God awful football are all factors that should be making them question his management of the club.
I really don't think our board works like that. There no football men in charge of decisions.
Woodward will only look at performance in terms of numbers.
 
Where? I haven't seen the newspapers say this since he was linked with PSG then it all went quiet when he signed an extension.
There has been quite a few, yesterday it was the mail, but in recent months the express, times and ESPN have said similar things within stories. They haven’t been huge publicised things it’s just when you read the stories they mention it. Like yesterday the story I was reading was something about Jose slamming players and it was mentioned within that.
 
To be honest, boardroom divide over Jose’s future is not something that I’d consider far fetched at all. His tactics, his team selections, his insistence on throwing everyone (including the club itself) under the bus to protect himself and the God awful football are all factors that should be making them question his management of the club.
There was even divide amongst them before he even came, so agreed not far fetched to beleive it would be there now considering all the reasons they didn’t want him he has pretty much done already.
 
Jose signed £65m of centre backs (Bailly and Lindeloff) but none of them start in our biggest game of the season. Bizarre!
 
The Royal Wedding genuinely had more going on than that United team yesterday.

More impressive performances too.
 
First of all, thanks for kind words. It is always nice to see when people take their opinion for holy truth.
Progress with jose is obvious. He clearly needs 3 or 4 players to finish rebuilding this team. I am sure that next year we will fight till the end with city for title.
Against chelsea we were far better team. They had one clear chance( alonso). We lost because we have shit defence. With new left back and world class central defender we will be complete team. Real and city are proof that all goes from defence. If you have wc defence everything is easier. If you can't see that, it is your problem. You just keep writing kind words to other posters who disagree with you.

Now, now, you need a bit more than just a LB and world-class CB. Let's imagine you do get that in the summer, then how do you actually get the goals consistently against all kinds of defenses from big and small teams? The fact is, this team plays with very little cohesion. It's hugely inconsistent. People said Mourinho's second season with the players he wanted (he got 3 out of 4, pretty good) would be where it all starts coming together. Can anyone really say the team has shown progression throughout this season? The team finished second, but with no silverware and I think the second place is a bit overrated as I think Liverpool had a slow start including the loss of their second best player mid-season. Next year might be more complicated, not easier.

I can't blame Mourinho for going after Sanchez, anyone would have gone for that deal. It's been disappointing that he's been so poor compared to his high standards, and that it displaced an in-form and productive Anthony Martial who could end up leaving the club with only an ineffective Rashford to cover both Lukaku and a mediocre Sanchez.

This team needs a lot more than just defense to mount any kind of serious challenge, and it remains to be seen if Mourinho is capable of getting a real identity out of this team and, above all, some consistency, no matter how many player he gets.
 
I don’t think it’s about taking the shackles off, I just think we just need to find a way of being more clinical with the ball. More tempo, more movement, better control in tight spaces, better final deliveries when we get into those positions etc. Just need more quality in the final third, more cutting edge.
My concern is that at times this season we've needed to show that cutting edge in attack. At times, it's no exaggeration to say we looked clueless.
 
Martial, Rashford, Pogba and Shaw anywhere else would be flourishing; the fact they’re not is indicative of one common issue - Mourinho.

I was initially for allowing him to build a team in his own image, but the signings he wants to make (all these dubious Brazilians) make me think he’s going to struggle further next season, and that he isn’t worth the constant compromise on the club’s identity.

It’s a lot easier and cheaper to hire a coach who can secure top 4 with the talent currently in the squad (which won’t be hard) than burn it all to pander to this archaic autocrat who’ll Likely be doing a runner at some point in the next 12 months anyway.
 
Martial, Rashford, Pogba and Shaw anywhere else would be flourishing; the fact they’re not is indicative of one common issue - Mourinho.

I was initially for allowing him to build a team in his own image, but the signings he wants to make (all these dubious Brazilians) make me think he’s going to struggle further next season.

It’s a lot easier and cheaper to hire a coach who can secure top 4 with the talent currently in the squad (which won’t be hard) than burn it all to pander to this archaic autocrat who’ll be doing a runner at some point in the next 12 months anyway.

Bailly, Lindelöf and Pogba have not progressed under him either. I actually think Bailly and Lindelof are fantastic signings. They have not started a single game together in a back 4. I don't understand why doesn't give them a proper run to prove themselves. Mourinho is far too reactionary. Picks teams to top the opposition which eliminates the possibility for a player to find form. Forwards need a run of games. You can't chop and change every week and be surprised when the performance level is below average.

 
Apparently Mourinho was getting death threats.

Its not been a great season but threatening to kill the manager? FFS lads.
Some of our fans can be right reactionary tits. Apparently his family was getting shit too.
 
Some of our fans can be right reactionary tits. Apparently his family was getting shit too.
thats disgusting! i can't stand Mourinho and want him to leave, .... but death threats..... i hope the people doing it are found and arrested.
 
I hate this club for times like this! We have become entitled despite being undeserving. We are on the upwards direction for the first time in years yet some people make itsound like this is the worst season in our history as a club.

Death threats ffs! How do people even think? Its like they hate this club- all of you asking Jose to leave who would replace him with? How many managers in football today can boast of his credentials.
 
United need to stick with him but with demands on more attacking play.

No point sacking him and starting all over again, He is a winner and we need to give him at least another year.

It took Fergie time, no reason to think Jose wouldn't need time too.
 
First of all, thanks for kind words. It is always nice to see when people take their opinion for holy truth.
Progress with jose is obvious. He clearly needs 3 or 4 players to finish rebuilding this team. I am sure that next year we will fight till the end with city for title.
Against chelsea we were far better team. They had one clear chance( alonso). We lost because we have shit defence. With new left back and world class central defender we will be complete team. Real and city are proof that all goes from defence. If you have wc defence everything is easier. If you can't see that, it is your problem. You just keep writing kind words to other posters who disagree with you.

A full back and a new centre back is not going to fix this team. We scored one fecking goal in our last four games! We are a shambolic attacking team under Mourinho and signing defenders is not going to fix that!

Mourinho will need to completely restructure his tactical thinking If we are going to challenge for the title.

I just don’t get the blind loyalty to Mourinho some fans show.
 
Bailly, Lindelöf and Pogba have not progressed under him either. I actually think Bailly and Lindelof are fantastic signings. They have not started a single game together in a back 4. I don't understand why doesn't give them a proper run to prove themselves. Mourinho is far too reactionary. Picks teams to top the opposition which eliminates the possibility for a player to find form. Forwards need a run of games. You can't chop and change every week and be surprised when the performance level is below average.



Those stats tell the story, Lukaku and Sanchez get to keep starting no matter how they play, but Martial and Rashford are playing on a knife edge as one bad game and it's back to the bench.
 
United need to stick with him but with demands on more attacking play.

No point sacking him and starting all over again, He is a winner and we need to give him at least another year.

It took Fergie time, no reason to think Jose wouldn't need time too.

It’s Mourinho’s Way or the highway. If the board demand he plays attacking football he will walk.
 
It’s Mourinho’s Way or the highway. If the board demand he plays attacking football he will walk.
That will be his choice, but we need to install some traditional play into our game, United have always been successful playing exciting attacking football if Jose wants to play the dross served up then he should go. He needs to adapt to our style of football, it's obvious that while this style was an improvement on previous seasons it will never catch the likes of City under Pep who plays more to our traditional style than Jose does.
 
I hate this club for times like this! We have become entitled despite being undeserving. We are on the upwards direction for the first time in years yet some people make itsound like this is the worst season in our history as a club.

Death threats ffs! How do people even think? Its like they hate this club- all of you asking Jose to leave who would replace him with? How many managers in football today can boast of his credentials.

Here we go again, talking about his past credentials. The Mourinho we have is a twisted, broken version of the “special one” Mourinho of a few years back.

If David Moyes was in charging and we were playing the same atrocious football there would be uproar. Mourinho is being given a free pass by a lot of fans because of his past.

He is the manager and he is responsible for our style of play. 3-4 signings this summer will not change his approach to a game.
 
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